How Much Space Is there for more channels on DTT?
tvmad-alan
Posts: 1,996 Forum Member
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We have just had The Horror Channel come to Freeview on EPG 70 after many hopes that it would, but does mean that space for more channels are limited as there is no new muxes being planed for our national TV?
Also we know that Channel 5 new owners are about to bring a new channel in April and that is to replace VIVA so called music channel and that BBC mad bosses wish to close BBC Three in the Autumn and change the kids channels hours and bring later BBC One +1 channel.
The limited space has made it hard for some TV companies to come to DTT with biding prices high and EPG numbers all over the place with so many changes and part time channels with time share because prices and space.
We know that COM 8 has not come online yet as it was to help push HD services with com 7, but this has not happened so why can it not be used for SD channels and with the bandwidth it could bring about 10 24/7 channels with people that have HD freeview as it will have to use the HD software ....
Could we get more on to the local mux ? but I know at this time it does not have the range like other muxes at this time.
We know that SuperHD/4HD/4xHD is coming to the UK this autumn with Sky & BT both putting out press that they will and this will mean that in 2016 we could be looking at one TV company bring out such high bandwidth using channel which they may like to be on all platforms ?
So is there the space on DTT / Freeview as the stupid G. Osborne goes to sell off more of our TV space 700MHz cheaply for more 4G network when other countries are going for 5G networks .....?
Also we know that Channel 5 new owners are about to bring a new channel in April and that is to replace VIVA so called music channel and that BBC mad bosses wish to close BBC Three in the Autumn and change the kids channels hours and bring later BBC One +1 channel.
The limited space has made it hard for some TV companies to come to DTT with biding prices high and EPG numbers all over the place with so many changes and part time channels with time share because prices and space.
We know that COM 8 has not come online yet as it was to help push HD services with com 7, but this has not happened so why can it not be used for SD channels and with the bandwidth it could bring about 10 24/7 channels with people that have HD freeview as it will have to use the HD software ....
Could we get more on to the local mux ? but I know at this time it does not have the range like other muxes at this time.
We know that SuperHD/4HD/4xHD is coming to the UK this autumn with Sky & BT both putting out press that they will and this will mean that in 2016 we could be looking at one TV company bring out such high bandwidth using channel which they may like to be on all platforms ?
So is there the space on DTT / Freeview as the stupid G. Osborne goes to sell off more of our TV space 700MHz cheaply for more 4G network when other countries are going for 5G networks .....?
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However if we had 6 DVB-T2 MUXs, as we should have upon DSO 2, then we should have an extra 31Mbps but as the other 5 MUXs will be able to use MPEG4/AVC/h.264 instead of MPEG 2 5 of the MUXs will allow twice as much as you might expect.
So it will actually be an increase of 52.5% over the space we currently have on freeview!
OK thanks for the above details but a DSO 2 would be very costly at this time as someone would have pick up the cost to give the low paid , ill. disabled and old people new TV's or boxes for all 5 muxes to go HD and yes it would give space as you said but the BBC last time picked up the cost to DSO in the main and I feel as they are closing down a channels and saying it to save costs it just could not be put to the paying public that the BBC could pick up more costs, Plus the BBC is picking up starting cost of all the local channels at this time at £5 millions plus each.
And the government will not pay at the time as the tories are just selling off the space to public TV in the budget we just had.
Also it will be a lot simpler for the broadcasters who will still be supplying a digital channel feed to the people who code and mux.
The PSBs will also be able to just broadcast in HD only (once they get all their regions in HD that is) meaning cost will actually be cut for them in the long run.
The equipment for broadcasting the 6 multiplexes that got installed at DSO 1 will likely still be used as its only a modulation change and a frequency change which I imagine isn't as big as replacing the old analogue equipment.
Yes people will still need help like last time but a lot more people will likely have the right kit already as this time at least its backwards compatible at the moment.
My grandparents needed a new TV last year and I said it should have a freeview HD tuner so that they are ready for DSO 2 and I recommend people do the same with relatives that will find it difficult, so that the change for them is sooner rather than later. That is they get used to the new kit sooner!
If something needs changing it might as well be to freeview HD capable than to something that isn't and has to be junked or partially junked later!
Oh ok that's even better then, well enough to fund a good switchover scheme and even replace some people's aerials so that its 470-690Mhz range if previously they only had a B or C/D aerial.
I presume that anything within channels 39-59 will be moved down to channels 31-37 and 39-49.
Although I guess some regions might have to be different to that even for places like Dover that are problematic, they are very likely to need new aerials if they previously had C/D aerials!
This is of course on top of the help scheme for replacement freeview boxes to DVB-T2 capable ones and the filters for filtering out any signals beyond 700Mhz like the current 4G filters.
Did they pay for you to get a STB for some reason at DSO, will Microsoft replace your windows XP computer? The list is endless and the answer, as you know, is no they won't. DSO 2 is unlikely happen before 2019 by which time your PVR will have gone to the skip, nothing lasts forever.
Usually at this point, someone posts that I'm wrong because they live in the middle of nowhere and only get 28K dial-up internet and therefore IPTV will never become the norm. However, I'm saying that this is the BEGINNING of the end.
28K...... I remember being stuck with 9600 and got excited when I upgraded to 14K
The young ones don't know how good they have it now with always connected and fibre speeds, when issues stop their streaming they expect it to be fixed in half an hour.
If only they could understand what we went through to get this far ;-)
I would imagine only if you qualify for the help scheme like people did last time but only with a non-pvr model unless you put some money towards it, that's if you qualify.
This is the problem though the government hasn't stopped the sale of SD only equipment which is stupid, as retailers have flogged this stuff ignorant of the fact that things are changing yet again.
This will mean that equipment that should have been good for a long time is going to become obsolete quickly just because the government has failed to act quickly!
By the time DSO 2 happens over 70% of us will be using HD anyway. If its via the built in HD tuner on the TV or using a PVR HD box.
I also think that in years to come sales of non PVR boxes will go down and some places will slowly start only selling PVRs and the new zapper type boxes that the likes of BT and others have now brought out.
Darren
The end cannot come until everyone gets a free connection to the outside world. Not being able to access public service broadcasts without paying a commercial operator for the line isn't going to be remotely acceptable, and I can't see the likes of BT giving their lines away for nothing. That's even before we take into account that the incredibly robust infrastructure we presently have for broadcast TV and radio, with reserve transmitters and backup power supplies, simply can't be matched when there is always the possibility that you would lose everything if someone repairing the sewer down the street cuts through the cable supplying your property.
I am sure many additional broadcast services will be provided in the way you suggest, but it's unlikely you'll ever beat being able to pick something out of the air for reliability.
From what you are saying then the PSBs will stay as the last bit of DTT forever then with everything else going onto a fibre connection of some kind. I suspect the PSBs will actually be on both and everyone will end up on both having an aerial to pick up one multiplex that stays regionalised in channels 21-25 across the country with everything else above channel 26 used for other uses.
Or people will use a sat dish for internet using all of 28 degrees east instead of a fibre connection, although I suspect that eventually it could be possible to replace all copper phone lines with fibre lines, leaving sat internet for temporary setups or people will use mobile internet 5G or above!
1) The price of Internet to homes and cost to have services.
2) Broadband is linked with telephones services which means all people will have to have phone to there places which means boats, caravan's and other place which get TV by transmitters would not have TV.
3) The UK internet service for one of the 8th riches is so slow and limited that not all people like by transmitters would be able to have any channels.
4) Internet is not without breakdowns that many times more then transmitters.
5) Price of TV's or Boxes and the technology changes to allow the deaf or poor vision to have services like the TV we have now would be need to be looked at before a DSO 4,
6) Price added to home power bills with having Internet hub & TV to view a channel.
7) In bad weathers power and telephone lines get damaged all the time and this would add to troubles of having internet TV only services, OK without power you have no TV anyway but Internet hubs need power and then the Internet needs Telephones lines too.
8) Regional TV from our national channels would have go as the cost to put out so many channels or the cost of software to work out which regional services to get from the Internet or card system for everyone ?
At this time we have few parts in the line of finding any trouble that stop someone from viewing TV channel in a home and companies to deal with but to add a Internet companies and they companies too means a longer chain.
So space on the DTT system is and will be needed for many years to come and the £600 millions is the money that G Osborne is going to sell 700MHz for not what he is giving to make the sell off go easy.
Com's companies are not going to give billions like in the past as they have the 4G networks and others already and no new company is likely to come along at this time as most mobile companies are joining up now.
If fibre lines were feeding to every home in the country they would need a good back up battery for power outages that would need to last about 24 hours.
If all copper lines were replaced with fibre lines they could in theory put extra routes in if they are smart enough, I guess it is unlikely that they will do this bit though.
If 1 mux was kept for all PSB services in full HD eventually using h.265/HEVC then at least people will get the basics over DTT.
Regionalisation I doubt would be an issue as every fibre node in people's homes would have a mac address and that would be unique to the home it's in, it could be connected with a phone number and easily match the right tv region!
2050?? Given the speed of technological change these days, I think that's waaay too far in the future. That's 35 years, so consider it this way: 35 years ago we still only had 3 channels in the UK (if you count all the ITV regions as one channel). 35 years ago teletext was only available in high-end unaffordable TVs. I doubt very much the in-home entertainment landscape will be recognisable in 35 years time.
And as lotrjw says, mobile internet will fill the gaps, with mobile speeds increasing all the time. In 35 years, fibre cables might be seen as prehistoric! There's already evidence that teens today barely watch a big screen and get all of their 'video' content via mobile devices, either via wifi or 3G/4G. They don't watch what their parents watch (teens never have), but they don't watch in the same way as their parents watch.
I have a few Mac pc's never noticed my street and number on the back.!
Anyhow ,what is inevitable in my very humble opinion is because we have 600ohm copper wires in most homes 4G and future variants would kick ,BTs monopoly in the n--ts.
But wait a cotton pickin minute ,haven't BT just gobbled up EE .
Hmmm
What happened to the regulators who boast on their web page ,that they promote competition .
Yup asleep on the job as usual.
Can't make such incompetence up !!!!🍻
Com8 was given five years along with com7 which now filled with HD & SD channels, so why not fill Com 8 with SD channels that wish to be on Freeview.
We know that if space was more freely that TV companies will fill it up just look at com7 and new channels that have come to freeview in last few months like CBS Action, Motors TV, CBS Horror, BT Showcase and next week Spike TV .
com8 could help channel 5 owners in bring CH5 HD to freeview at last and they may wish to make it's new channel Spike into HD too and space for CBS to bring CBS Drama to freeview too ???
Seemingly it won't need new hardware either and they claim bandwith would make 4K the same as exisitng 1080p and 1080p the same as existing SD.
More details here:
http://www.v-net.tv/stealth-compression-company-claims-mind-blowing-performance-gains
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-32140732
Do we think this could make its way onto the freeview platform as it would solve a lot of the exisitng problems in one fell swoop if it does everything they claim it can.
In France it's foreseen that DTT (TNT as it's called here) will at the end of the decade use H265 (HEVC) compression over DVB-T2 modulation.
Is it not the case in the UK ?
So in France we will have had 3 DSO's in less than 10 years:
-2011: DSO1 (end of analog, SD in MPEG-2/DVB-T, HD and pay-DTT in H264/DVB-T)
-2016: DSO2 (end of MPEG-2, SD and HD in H264/DVB-T)
-2020 or so: DSO3 (end of H264 and DVB-T, everything in H265/DVB-T2)
Regarding the need of simulcast, there is no need to simulcast HD and SD (or even UHD) anymore as long as all resolutions use the same codec and that the decoder is able to downscale or upscale the resolution at its output (which is the case of all current HD decoders).
DVB-T
Simulcast is nowt to do with the codec
DVB-T