Yeah. She is actually one of those people that like to bash Joe as much as she can. I thought she was better than that actually.
But there are just some people out there that like to shot the lamb when it just began to walk and smile right after the shooting.
Aww don't say that im not here to bash him. I was actually rewatching some of his Xfactor peformances the other week and Joe's vocal is technically spot on. I didnt want him to win last year because i knew this would happen and that it would leave Joe and the show looking a bit irrelevant. My opinion stands that he needs he needs to mature(musically, artistically) before he makes another attempt and if that doesnt work then it is what it is.
But at the same time you cant just say that anyone who doesnt share your OPINIONS on the star quality of Joe is a hater.
It's not. Whether you prefer someone's voice, style and so on is a matter of opinion and personal taste but not whether someone is more talented. A lot of people liked Jedward but they'd be laughed into the next millenium if they seriously suggested they were the most talented contestants.
Murs was no more there for his vocals, as John and Edward were theirs. But I'll say this much for the twins, I really warmed to those lads on tour. They made me SMILE
Olly's, obviously, 'up himself' describing himself as being "charismatic" to Richard Bacon. I mean who on Earth bangs on about themselves being "charismatic"? More legovers than Nick Clegg but not as many as Tom Jones ... even his own twin scoffed at that "boast"
Murs was no more there for his vocals, as John and Edward were theirs. But I'll say this much for the twins, I really warmed to those lads on tour. They made me SMILE
Olly's, obviously, 'up himself' describing himself as being "charismatic" to Richard Bacon. I mean who on Earth bangs on about themselves being "charismatic"? More legovers than Nick Clegg but not as many as Tom Jones ... even his own twin scoffed at that "boast"
Olly came across to me from the start as an arse that's up it's own arse. I suppose that makes him unique
I dare say Nick Clegg is a handsome chap, who may have pulled quite a few back in his prime
In his prime? He's still very much in his prime from where I'm standing He could show me his proportional representation any time he likes He strikes me as the monogamous sort though.
This. This. This. Couldn't have put it better myself particularly the part about Simon Cowell.
Simon Cowell has no business handling A&R and executive production for anyone with the exception of maybe Susan Boyle. He is completely and totally out of touch with current music, radio trends, etc. as is the rest of his A&R staff at Syco.
Simon is no music man, as much as he would like to think he is one.
Agreed, I am glad some of the general public are starting to realise this.
I usually only post on Joe's appreciation thread (as a quick check of my other posts will show) but I'd like to just address this comment. Please don't assume a lack of Joe's fans posting on threads like this means that the people who supported Joe on DS for the last year have stopped supporting him now.
I was a prolific poster over the summer while Joe was recording his album and performing at just the occasional gig, but I haven't posted as much in the last 3 months simply because I've been busy going to Joe's gigs and TV appearances all over the UK, uploading videos of his performances on YT, and spending times with the friends I've made through Joe's appreciation thread and his wider fan base. In simple terms, we don't need to post as much on threads like this (or even on the appreciation thread) because many of us are now in touch by other means.
I'm not usually one to say my view of things is shared by everyone else but I think most, if not all, of the 22 of us who were together for one of Joe's recent gigs in Brighton (and who all met through DS) would give similar reasons for not being as active as they used to be on DS ie we're spending our time watching, listening to and supporting Joe rather than posting. And while 22 people might not be a huge group in overall terms, they would account for a lot of posts on a thread like this.
This includes me too.
I am one Joe fan that normally avoids these main forum threads regarding Joe because of people who love to give abuse to Joe and his fans, doesnt mean we are not still around and supporting Joe, we are doing that in everyway we can and will be doing it for as long as Joe is still performing, no matter the capcity, venue etc.
Thanks for starting this thread, I appreciate your honest views on Joe from your perspective.
The truth is none of us know what 2011 will hold for Joe, but there will be plenty of us following him around and looking out for his new material, whether that's released by Syco, another label or straight to youtube.
I was astonished to see Joe's development on X factor last year, nothing this year came remotely close for me. Joe continues to develop his performing skills, much of which was never even hinted at on x factor. At the 02 he had the audience in the palm of his hand when he sang She's Out of My Life, and at live gigs his new stuff gets people up dancing and singing. Remember everything is strictly choreographed, even the things Simon Cowell found to complain about Joe ( stop the stage school swaying, hold the mike, believe in yourself ) were scripted - he was told to sway like that !
Joe's album was a real surprise for me as a fan, it really is a good pop album. They have messed up on the production, but even with that it is a good listen. The sales are disappointing, but with the appalling lack of airplay in comparison to other winners like Leona and Alex, and even non winners like JLS, Diana and Olly it is pretty much understandable.
Would Alex or Olly have acheived their current sales if their first singles had been boycotted by the largest share of commercial radio, rather than wholeheartedly endorsed?
What is strange is to find out random things such as Wide Awake got in to the top 30 in Germany, with no promotion whatsoever. Presumably the 'unknown Joe' got some airplay there and people decided to buy because they liked it. We will never know how Joe's new music would have sold here if people had access to it on the airwaves.
In his prime? He's still very much in his prime from where I'm standing He could show me his proportional representation any time he likes He strikes me as the monogamous sort though.
That's what I meant before Mrs Clegg (I don't even know her name) came along
My point is that I don't think anyone could mimic Joe
He's a nice looking boy with a good voice - there's 5 of them in One Direction!
In all seriousness, I know Joe is a lot better at singing than all of them in One Direction, but he's not relevant and he's not unique. There are a million Joes out there, and before anyone says name them, none of them are famous any more because that's just not what music is these days. I see what they tried to do with the uptempo poppy stuff, unfortunantely it hasn't really worked, but I don't think if he'd come out with a typical Joe ballad that it would have fared any better. Ambitions might have set the chart alight a little more if we hadn't known him from X Factor, but without it he'd never have got a deal. He reminds me of Gareth Gates, just ten years too late.
I do like Joe, and I would love to see him do well in the charts, but for his own sake I'd say cut his losses now and go and join the cast of Les Mis.
I am one Joe fan that normally avoids these main forum threads regarding Joe because of people who love to give abuse to Joe and his fans.
I don't think it's fair to assume any thread which is slightly critical or questioning of Joe's current poisition or his future is automatically absuive. To be fair, some of my wording choices might not have been ideal, but I never wanted this thread to become what it has.
The fact is, Joe is selling worse than Leon Jackson was, and that can't be a good thing. Not when it comes to his future with Syco and his link with the X-Factor brand in general, at any rate. I see no harm discussing this and it's a shame that some of the more immature fans (of all artists mentioned in this thread, not just Joe) are making everyone on their "side" look bad and attempting to derail a legit discussion.
She could write and compose her songs/melodies for a start. She also didn't look lost on stage and had star quality. Why is she being brought up in this discussion?. The music industry has changed these days....vocals aren't as important as they used to be.
She could write and compose her songs/melodies for a start. She also didn't look lost on stage and had star quality. Why is she being brought up in this discussion?. The music industry has changed these days....vocals aren't as important as they used to be.
Not that Joe has ever struck me as being "lost on stage", of course, in addition to having the looks and the vocal
Where is the proof that Joe has perfect pitch? I'm pretty sure I've heard him hit a bum note or two in his time!
Joe is one of only a couple of contestants on any talent show who didn't hit a bum note (he may well have done on the tour - he would have to be a robot not to) but having perfect pitch is nothing to do with that. Singers with perfect pitch can still hit bum notes.
Yep, and with 'Ambitions', Joe was as 'disconnected' from his winning X Factor persona, musically, as it could possibly get :rolleyes:
His only other option was to record dreary, Westlife like ballads....and he would've done even worse. Joe had to adapt to what's currently being played on the radio. He sang uptempo songs on the show...you're making it sound like all the people that voted for him could not possibly handle anything over 40bpm.
His only other option was to record dreary, Westlife like ballads....and he would've done even worse. Joe had to adapt to what's currently being played on the radio. He sang uptempo songs on the show...you're making it sound like all the people that voted for him could not possibly handle anything over 40bpm.
There is a difference between something like Could It Be Magic and Don't Stop Believing and something like Ambitions and other similar tracks on the album.
Joe is one of only a couple of contestants on any talent show who didn't hit a bum note (he may well have done on the tour - he would have to be a robot not to) but having perfect pitch is nothing to do with that. Singers with perfect pitch can still hit bum notes.
But where is the proof that he has perfect pitch?! Do we know if he can even read music? There are plenty of notes which are a little flat in his X Factor perfomances, but he's only human, it doesn't make him a bad singer but he isn't always on point as other posts have seemed to suggest, sorry if I have misinterpreted anything.
But where is the proof that he has perfect pitch?! Do we know if he can even read music?
Only one poster is trying to say he has perfect pitch. There is no documented evidence of this and no one involved with Joe or the show has ever said he has.
Reading music has nothing whatsoever to do with perfect pitch.
His only other option was to record dreary, Westlife like ballads....and he would've done even worse. Joe had to adapt to what's currently being played on the radio. He sang uptempo songs on the show...you're making it sound like all the people that voted for him could not possibly handle anything over 40bpm.
I've said it all along, Joe did not appeal to those who well tune in for 'entertainment' and I don't think Joe moving into Scissor Sisters or Mika type territory was what many were particularly wanting nor expecting. I don't see why his only other option would be "dreary, Westlife like ballads" either
'Ambitions' was a world away from anything Joe performed on The X Factor and I rue the day, Joe recorded it. And I don't think it's been perceived as 'best-fitting' Joe at all
I, myself, love Wide Awake but 'Ambitions' is way down the pecking order, much like 'The Climb' was from The X Factor
SC said Joe's album "would pleasantly surprise fans". It surprised, but the commercial response to it has not been particularly pleasant
Only one poster is trying to say he has perfect pitch. There is no documented evidence of this and no one involved with Joe or the show has ever said he has.
Reading music has nothing whatsoever to do with perfect pitch.
OK, thanks, I do know that, I should have said does he the ability to hear a note and name it/name one and sing it, perhaps that's more to do with music theory than reading music itself. I am doubtful that he does have perfect pitch to be honest, it is pretty rare, but was just wondering if anyone had evidence to the contrary.
She could write and compose her songs/melodies for a start. She also didn't look lost on stage and had star quality. Why is she being brought up in this discussion?. The music industry has changed these days....vocals aren't as important as they used to be.
Look at his sales, my dear!
Celine started writing well into her career. To begin with she recorded mostly covers or French versions of songs with lyrics originally in English, then she had songs written for her (and continues to do so) well before she started writing, composing or collaborating on this.
If you're trying to suggest Joe looks lost on stage, I suggest you stop before you embarrass yourself. I love it when the same people who suggest Joe belongs in musical theatre say he looks lost on stage.
Your statement that vocals aren't as important as they used to be shows that you know very well why Celine (and Whitney) have been brought up in this thread.
Besides, it's BS. Vocals are just as important as they ever were. Ultimately, it's great vocalists whose career transcends time and trends.
Are you suggesting in your last comment that anyone whose sales aren't as high as others is not a recording artists? There are certainly a lot of acts who need to rethink the day job then.
Seriously, my dear, you need to try harder. At the very least start by not contradicting yourself.
He hasn't. He has exceptional control and reliability of pitch but he doesn't have absolute pitch.
He does. Ok, absolute pitch is the ability to name or reproduce a tone without reference to an external standard. Absolute pitch individuals can accurately sing a given pitch without an external reference.
As evident from his pitch perfect performances, he proved that himself.
Also, if you watch Joe during his vocal coaching, he understands when singing which pitch he is on and if it is correct or not.
Anyway, I actually didn't know he had absolute pitch until some of my musical professional colleagues pointed it out to me.
He does. Ok, absolute pitch is the ability to name or reproduce a tone without reference to an external standard. Absolute pitch individuals can accurately sing a given pitch without an external reference.
As evident from his pitch perfect performances, he proved that himself.
Also, if you watch Joe during his vocal coaching, he understands when singing which pitch he is on and if it is correct or not.
Anyway, I actually didn't know he had absolute pitch until some of my musical professional colleagues pointed it out to me.
But he always had an external refernece with these "pitch-perfect" performances.
Do you have a link to these videos of his vocal coaching? I'd be interested to see them.
He does. Ok, absolute pitch is the ability to name or reproduce a tone without reference to an external standard. Absolute pitch individuals can accurately sing a given pitch without an external reference.
As evident from his pitch perfect performances, he proved that himself.
Also, if you watch Joe during his vocal coaching, he understands when singing which pitch he is on and if it is correct or not.
Anyway, I actually didn't know he had absolute pitch until some of my musical professional colleagues pointed it out to me.
His performances may have been note perfect but that doesn't equal having perfect pitch and you know that, seeing as you have linked to the Wikipedia page more than enough times.
Joe had an external reference every time - i.e. the backing music. I can't remember him performing a song and starting a capella (I'd have to go back and check She's Outa My Life) but even in that instance, he would have had a note fed through to him on his earpiece.
Any singer worthy of the name should be able to recognise whether they're on the right pitch or not. That doesn't mean they have perfect pitch or anything of the sort.
The reason why you didn't know he had perfect pitch is because none of the above demonstrates that he has. None of the above has anything to do with having perfect pitch.
Besides, it's BS. Vocals are just as important as they ever were. Ultimately, it's great vocalists whose career transcends time and trends.
Yep, and Nana Mouskouri, as much as anyone I can think of, is proof of that. She recorded in many languages, cutting across several genres, before retiring in 2008. She has a very engaging personality and served in the European Parliament as Greek MEP from 1994-1999 in addition to her role as a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador
A great vocalist , by any standard, who stood the test of time
Comments
Aww don't say that
But at the same time you cant just say that anyone who doesnt share your OPINIONS on the star quality of Joe is a hater.
Murs was no more there for his vocals, as John and Edward were theirs. But I'll say this much for the twins, I really warmed to those lads on tour. They made me SMILE
Olly's, obviously, 'up himself' describing himself as being "charismatic" to Richard Bacon. I mean who on Earth bangs on about themselves being "charismatic"? More legovers than Nick Clegg but not as many as Tom Jones ... even his own twin scoffed at that "boast"
I dare say Nick Clegg is a handsome chap, who may have pulled quite a few back in his prime
Olly came across to me from the start as an arse that's up it's own arse. I suppose that makes him unique
Can't argue with that.
In his prime? He's still very much in his prime from where I'm standing
Agreed, I am glad some of the general public are starting to realise this.
This includes me too.
I am one Joe fan that normally avoids these main forum threads regarding Joe because of people who love to give abuse to Joe and his fans, doesnt mean we are not still around and supporting Joe, we are doing that in everyway we can and will be doing it for as long as Joe is still performing, no matter the capcity, venue etc.
Brillant post Kanga Samps, totally agree.
That's what I meant before Mrs Clegg (I don't even know her name) came along
Where is the proof that Joe has perfect pitch? I'm pretty sure I've heard him hit a bum note or two in his time!
He's a nice looking boy with a good voice - there's 5 of them in One Direction!
In all seriousness, I know Joe is a lot better at singing than all of them in One Direction, but he's not relevant and he's not unique. There are a million Joes out there, and before anyone says name them, none of them are famous any more because that's just not what music is these days. I see what they tried to do with the uptempo poppy stuff, unfortunantely it hasn't really worked, but I don't think if he'd come out with a typical Joe ballad that it would have fared any better. Ambitions might have set the chart alight a little more if we hadn't known him from X Factor, but without it he'd never have got a deal. He reminds me of Gareth Gates, just ten years too late.
I do like Joe, and I would love to see him do well in the charts, but for his own sake I'd say cut his losses now and go and join the cast of Les Mis.
I don't think it's fair to assume any thread which is slightly critical or questioning of Joe's current poisition or his future is automatically absuive. To be fair, some of my wording choices might not have been ideal, but I never wanted this thread to become what it has.
The fact is, Joe is selling worse than Leon Jackson was, and that can't be a good thing. Not when it comes to his future with Syco and his link with the X-Factor brand in general, at any rate. I see no harm discussing this and it's a shame that some of the more immature fans (of all artists mentioned in this thread, not just Joe) are making everyone on their "side" look bad and attempting to derail a legit discussion.
She could write and compose her songs/melodies for a start. She also didn't look lost on stage and had star quality. Why is she being brought up in this discussion?. The music industry has changed these days....vocals aren't as important as they used to be.
Look at his sales, my dear!
Lets just say my first impressions were not positive
Not that Joe has ever struck me as being "lost on stage", of course, in addition to having the looks and the vocal
Miriam. She's Spanish. I like how all three boys have Spanish names though they do sound a bit odd with the surname Clegg
Pretty much. I wonder how Joe would have done in the competition if he had performed songs in a similar genre to Ambitions.
Joe is one of only a couple of contestants on any talent show who didn't hit a bum note (he may well have done on the tour - he would have to be a robot not to) but having perfect pitch is nothing to do with that. Singers with perfect pitch can still hit bum notes.
His only other option was to record dreary, Westlife like ballads....and he would've done even worse. Joe had to adapt to what's currently being played on the radio. He sang uptempo songs on the show...you're making it sound like all the people that voted for him could not possibly handle anything over 40bpm.
There is a difference between something like Could It Be Magic and Don't Stop Believing and something like Ambitions and other similar tracks on the album.
But where is the proof that he has perfect pitch?! Do we know if he can even read music? There are plenty of notes which are a little flat in his X Factor perfomances, but he's only human, it doesn't make him a bad singer but he isn't always on point as other posts have seemed to suggest, sorry if I have misinterpreted anything.
Only one poster is trying to say he has perfect pitch. There is no documented evidence of this and no one involved with Joe or the show has ever said he has.
Reading music has nothing whatsoever to do with perfect pitch.
I've said it all along, Joe did not appeal to those who well tune in for 'entertainment' and I don't think Joe moving into Scissor Sisters or Mika type territory was what many were particularly wanting nor expecting. I don't see why his only other option would be "dreary, Westlife like ballads" either
'Ambitions' was a world away from anything Joe performed on The X Factor and I rue the day, Joe recorded it. And I don't think it's been perceived as 'best-fitting' Joe at all
I, myself, love Wide Awake
SC said Joe's album "would pleasantly surprise fans". It surprised, but the commercial response to it has not been particularly pleasant
OK, thanks, I do know that, I should have said does he the ability to hear a note and name it/name one and sing it, perhaps that's more to do with music theory than reading music itself. I am doubtful that he does have perfect pitch to be honest, it is pretty rare, but was just wondering if anyone had evidence to the contrary.
Celine started writing well into her career. To begin with she recorded mostly covers or French versions of songs with lyrics originally in English, then she had songs written for her (and continues to do so) well before she started writing, composing or collaborating on this.
If you're trying to suggest Joe looks lost on stage, I suggest you stop before you embarrass yourself. I love it when the same people who suggest Joe belongs in musical theatre say he looks lost on stage.
Your statement that vocals aren't as important as they used to be shows that you know very well why Celine (and Whitney) have been brought up in this thread.
Besides, it's BS. Vocals are just as important as they ever were. Ultimately, it's great vocalists whose career transcends time and trends.
Are you suggesting in your last comment that anyone whose sales aren't as high as others is not a recording artists? There are certainly a lot of acts who need to rethink the day job then.
Seriously, my dear, you need to try harder. At the very least start by not contradicting yourself.
He does. Ok, absolute pitch is the ability to name or reproduce a tone without reference to an external standard. Absolute pitch individuals can accurately sing a given pitch without an external reference.
As evident from his pitch perfect performances, he proved that himself.
Also, if you watch Joe during his vocal coaching, he understands when singing which pitch he is on and if it is correct or not.
Anyway, I actually didn't know he had absolute pitch until some of my musical professional colleagues pointed it out to me.
But he always had an external refernece with these "pitch-perfect" performances.
Do you have a link to these videos of his vocal coaching? I'd be interested to see them.
His performances may have been note perfect but that doesn't equal having perfect pitch and you know that, seeing as you have linked to the Wikipedia page more than enough times.
Joe had an external reference every time - i.e. the backing music. I can't remember him performing a song and starting a capella (I'd have to go back and check She's Outa My Life) but even in that instance, he would have had a note fed through to him on his earpiece.
Any singer worthy of the name should be able to recognise whether they're on the right pitch or not. That doesn't mean they have perfect pitch or anything of the sort.
The reason why you didn't know he had perfect pitch is because none of the above demonstrates that he has. None of the above has anything to do with having perfect pitch.
Yep, and Nana Mouskouri, as much as anyone I can think of, is proof of that. She recorded in many languages, cutting across several genres, before retiring in 2008. She has a very engaging personality and served in the European Parliament as Greek MEP from 1994-1999 in addition to her role as a UNICEF Goodwill Ambassador
A great vocalist