Jesus H. Christ, now who the hell has done that? All I have said is that I will wait before I form a final opinion.:mad:
It's comments like that which lead to the pitchfork labels. Whenever an emotive subject such as this comes up, anyone who doesn't immediately condemm the accused is automatically assumed to be with them.
I didn't believe it before he died. I am an intelligent, reasonable human being though I say it myself.
I believe it now.
BTW JS has not been called a paedophile by the police or by me. I do not feel that I or others are overly emotional, although as you say paedophilia and other sexual abuse and offences are emotive subjects.
This has been a very good thread, as has the previous.
Yes, I saw the interview. The man does not look to be holding up too well under the pressure, his hands were shaking like a leaf and he seemed a little doddery in his speech. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt (don't know why) but if he could not recall being on that Savile show at all how can he recall that he categorically did not grope that girl...? the woman and her story come across as credible - but I've a feeling her coming out and naming him could possibly cause the first casualty of this whole sordid affair. That would not be nice - young wife, baby on the way...:(
What a totally disgusting phrase! I find it so offensive and demeaning to any actions that involve inappropriate behaviour toward a child. :mad:
It's a horrible phrase, used by people with no tact or intelligence and has no connection with Savile's actions anyway.
The girls involved all seem to have been in their teens so this doesn't make Savile a paedophile, but an hebephile or an ephebeophile. Wilfred D'Ath's story makes it sound as if the girl involved may have been about 12, but he's not exactly the most reliable witness.
I remember when he died and there was a thread full of how great he was and " RIP Jimmy you are a legend."
I posted that I bet he hopes the cat stays firmly in the bag and I was ripped to shreds. I wonder how many of those people are now on here condemning him ?
I would imagine if all the cats come out of the bag we will discover some really revolting things...... men aren't supposed to wander round hospitals late at night under the guise of being a " porter "
Jesus H. Christ, now who the hell has done that? All I have said is that I will wait before I form a final opinion.:mad:
It's comments like that which lead to the pitchfork labels. Whenever an emotive subject such as this comes up, anyone who doesn't immediately condemm the accused is automatically assumed to be with them.
It's nonsense to claim the above - BIB - in the context of JS. This is Part.2 of a very long and detailed thread providing chapter and verse of things he did and said over the decades, along with accounts from posters who provided their own personal experiences of him. Added to which there is now the damning Exposure testimony plus the additional claims that have since been reported to the police. Plus the accounts of those at the BBC and elsewhere.
What exactly is it you're waiting for at this stage? Had you made your (above) comments at the beginning of Part.1 of this thread, I would be in 100% agreement with you. How you can still make those comments now is just baffling.
It's nonsense to claim the above - BIB - in the context of JS. This is Part.2 of a very long and detailed thread providing chapter and verse of things he did and said over the decades, along with accounts from posters who provided their own personal experiences of him. Added to which there is now the damning Exposure testimony plus the additional claims that have since been reported to the police. Plus the accounts of those at the BBC and elsewhere.
What exactly is it you're waiting for at this stage? Had you made your (above) comments at the beginning of Part.1 of this thread, I would be in 100% agreement with you. How you can still make those comments now is just baffling.
Well excuse me for not commenting immediately on every story that occurs. All I was stating was my unease that public opinion appears to be driving the decision to take down Saville's headstone and the comment by the police that he was a serial sex offender. I've never stated that any of the allegations that have come out are untrue, but taking into account that a lot of information is coming out in a relatively short period of time, I'm just going to step back and wait for it to calm down and I have something more substantive to digest than internet gossip and interviews in the media.
I remember when he died and there was a thread full of how great he was and " RIP Jimmy you are a legend."
I posted that I bet he hopes the cat stays firmly in the bag and I was ripped to shreds. I wonder how many of those people are now on here condemning him ?
I would imagine if all the cats come out of the bag we will discover some really revolting things...... men aren't supposed to wander round hospitals late at night under the guise of being a " porter "
I too remember when he died and how everyone was full of what a wonderful human being he was. Then a work colleague of mine filled us in on all the stories about him she had been told, at first we were pretty sceptical about it all, we admitted that all of us thought he 'looked a bit creepy' but that none of us would have thought it was any more than that, she elaborated on the 'suspected' child abuse, the 'suspected' necrophilia, the porter stories (that are beginning to come out now) and we got a bit uneasy about it all, we asked her how she knew all this and she told us about her connections at the BBC adding that all of the stories she had told us were common knowledge at the BBC but that nobody would touch him because of the charity work and the people who depended on him for the endless donations. I remember going home and telling my husband who said 'Jimmy Saville?? no way!!!' and then we didn't think about it any more until all this came up and the work colleague said 'don't say I didn't warn you'. She also told us about his brother who she said was put away for abusing comatose patients at the hospital where he too was a porter, this is something I've not read about though and can't find anything on.
My brother has always maintained that rumors about Savile in the eighties included...............one reason he volunteered as a hospital porter was to gain access to the morgue :eek:
Well excuse me for not commenting immediately on every story that occurs. All I was stating was my unease that public opinion appears to be driving the decision to take down Saville's headstone and the comment by the police that he was a serial sex offender. I've never stated that any of the allegations that have come out are untrue, but taking into account that a lot of information is coming out in a relatively short period of time, I'm just going to step back and wait for it to calm down and I have something more substantive to digest than internet gossip and interviews in the media.
Surely that should enforce things not make someone take stock!. It figures that it is safety in numbers . Happened the same way for all the abuse in children homes both catholic and protestant. It just takes one brave person to speak out then the rest follow
this line about being no evidence is constantly being dragged out but as a previous poster said, are you expecting a video confession? footage from a hidden camera of JS in the act? Because none of that is going to happen. Whatever he was, he wasn't stupid. He also will have seen what happened to Jonathan King and Gary Glitter. Do you really think he'd have kept anything that was remotely incriminating?
When large numbers of people come forward with accounts of abuse and many of them seem to have mentioned particular acts/behaviour from their abuser that tally with other victims........THAT is evidence.
I'm so sick of hearing the other 'why didn't they come forward sooner' line. Many did. They were ignored. By the very people that are supposed to protect them.
Quite a few paedophile priests have been jailed primarily on sworn testimony relating back to sexual offences from many years ago from people who were children at the time. How else is a court of law going to decide the guilt of the suspect or not? The court quite rightly takes the view that if a number of accusers come forward naming the same person and are prepared to testify under oath, they are very likely to be telling the truth. The idea that they all would be lying and trying to frame an innocent man seems very far fetched.
Well excuse me for not commenting immediately on every story that occurs. All I was stating was my unease that public opinion appears to be driving the decision to take down Saville's headstone and the comment by the police that he was a serial sex offender. I've never stated that any of the allegations that have come out are untrue, but taking into account that a lot of information is coming out in a relatively short period of time, I'm just going to step back and wait for it to calm down and I have something more substantive to digest than internet gossip and interviews in the media.
Savile's family took the decision to take down the memorial.
It's very telling that the wording is to be ground off, and the pieces taken to landfill. Their public line has been that they're doing it out of respect for people who have family buried there, but it's my personal belief they're beginning to believe what's been in the media.
Their decision alone should tell you something about how they feel.
Jesus H. Christ, now who the hell has done that? All I have said is that I will wait before I form a final opinion.:mad:
It's comments like that which lead to the pitchfork labels. Whenever an emotive subject such as this comes up, anyone who doesn't immediately condemm the accused is automatically assumed to be with them.
I apologise if you thought I was referring to you personally, I have tried since the first part of this thread to keep it to generalisations, rather than posters or celebrities. I realise my reply could be misconstrued.
But please try and think before you post. Yes, people would try to whitewash things, not so much this last week but, as someone who has worked with victims of abuse, if you took the trouble to do a modicum of research you'd realise that there are many who would whitewash it by saying "it was the culture of the 60's-80's" "the women were "asking for it" etc etc, and in the case of JS "what does it matter he's dead, and he raised millions for charity so he cant be all bad"
Surely that should enforce things not make someone take stock!. It figures that it is safety in numbers . Happened the same way for all the abuse in children homes both catholic and protestant. It just takes one brave person to speak out then the rest follow
Not really, take Christopher Jefferies for example. A lot of "stories" were appearing in the press about him in the press in a short space of time, which later turned out to be false.
Yes, I saw the interview. The man does not look to be holding up too well under the pressure, his hands were shaking like a leaf and he seemed a little doddery in his speech. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt (don't know why) but if he could not recall being on that Savile show at all how can he recall that he categorically did not grope that girl...? the woman and her story come across as credible - but I've a feeling her coming out and naming him could possibly cause the first casualty of this whole sordid affair. That would not be nice - young wife, baby on the way...:(
I think remembering which of many shows you were on 40 years ago is a bit different to remembering if you sexually assaulted someone!
I too remember when he died and how everyone was full of what a wonderful human being he was. Then a work colleague of mine filled us in on all the stories about him ..... She also told us about his brother who she said was put away for abusing comatose patients at the hospital where he too was a porter, this is something I've not read about though and can't find anything on.
In the linked article, it says John Henry, Savile's brother, was sacked from a psychiatric hospital, in 1980, for sexual assault on a patient.
My brother has always maintained that rumors about Savile in the eighties included...............one reason he volunteered as a hospital porter was to gain access to the morgue :eek:
Has anyone else heard this?
I've heard that, but would like to know what else he could have been up to in there. It does sound dodgy but it might not be what some people think.
Quite a few paedophile priests have been jailed primarily on sworn testimony relating back to sexual offences from many years ago from people who were children at the time. How else is a court of law going to decide the guilt of the suspect or not? The court quite rightly takes the view that if a number of accusers come forward naming the same person and are prepared to testify under oath, they are very likely to be telling the truth. The idea that they all would be lying and trying to frame an innocent man seems very far fetched.
Well, read about Dave Jones, the Sheff Wed football manager and see if that changes your mind
I too remember when he died and how everyone was full of what a wonderful human being he was. Then a work colleague of mine filled us in on all the stories about him she had been told, at first we were pretty sceptical about it all, we admitted that all of us thought he 'looked a bit creepy' but that none of us would have thought it was any more than that, she elaborated on the 'suspected' child abuse, the 'suspected' necrophilia, the porter stories (that are beginning to come out now) and we got a bit uneasy about it all, we asked her how she knew all this and she told us about her connections at the BBC adding that all of the stories she had told us were common knowledge at the BBC but that nobody would touch him because of the charity work and the people who depended on him for the endless donations. I remember going home and telling my husband who said 'Jimmy Saville?? no way!!!' and then we didn't think about it any more until all this came up and the work colleague said 'don't say I didn't warn you'. She also told us about his brother who she said was put away for abusing comatose patients at the hospital where he too was a porter, this is something I've not read about though and can't find anything on.
The BBC were certainly partly to blame for the cult of Saville, especially shows like Jim'll Fix It. They created this myth of a kindly uncle type sitting on his armchair who loved children and was generous in spirit.
Interestingly though, many people who actually knew Saville saw through his public facade very quickly and worked out there was something creepy underneath. Which is why I think the likes of the Duncroft staff are a disgrace. Sure, they would have been taken in by his supposed charm the first few times he visited, but after a few months all sorts of alarm bells should have been ringing (and perhaps they were, which makes their dereliction of duty disgusting).
Savile's family took the decision to take down the memorial.
It's very telling that the wording is to be ground off, and the pieces taken to landfill. Their public line has been that they're doing it out of respect for people who have family buried there, but it's my personal belief they're beginning to believe what's been in the media.
Their decision alone should tell you something about how they feel.
Not really, take Christopher Jefferies for example. A lot of "stories" were appearing in the press about him in the press in a short space of time, which later turned out to be false.
The videos and tapes and autobiography are in Jimmy Saville's own words, as are his recorded words about Gary Glitter. Have you seen, heard or read them? If not I'm sure links can be given to them again if you would like to read them now.
Comments
I didn't believe it before he died. I am an intelligent, reasonable human being though I say it myself.
I believe it now.
BTW JS has not been called a paedophile by the police or by me. I do not feel that I or others are overly emotional, although as you say paedophilia and other sexual abuse and offences are emotive subjects.
This has been a very good thread, as has the previous.
Yes, I saw the interview. The man does not look to be holding up too well under the pressure, his hands were shaking like a leaf and he seemed a little doddery in his speech. I want to give the guy the benefit of the doubt (don't know why) but if he could not recall being on that Savile show at all how can he recall that he categorically did not grope that girl...? the woman and her story come across as credible - but I've a feeling her coming out and naming him could possibly cause the first casualty of this whole sordid affair. That would not be nice - young wife, baby on the way...:(
It's a horrible phrase, used by people with no tact or intelligence and has no connection with Savile's actions anyway.
The girls involved all seem to have been in their teens so this doesn't make Savile a paedophile, but an hebephile or an ephebeophile. Wilfred D'Ath's story makes it sound as if the girl involved may have been about 12, but he's not exactly the most reliable witness.
I posted that I bet he hopes the cat stays firmly in the bag and I was ripped to shreds. I wonder how many of those people are now on here condemning him ?
I would imagine if all the cats come out of the bag we will discover some really revolting things...... men aren't supposed to wander round hospitals late at night under the guise of being a " porter "
It's nonsense to claim the above - BIB - in the context of JS. This is Part.2 of a very long and detailed thread providing chapter and verse of things he did and said over the decades, along with accounts from posters who provided their own personal experiences of him. Added to which there is now the damning Exposure testimony plus the additional claims that have since been reported to the police. Plus the accounts of those at the BBC and elsewhere.
What exactly is it you're waiting for at this stage? Had you made your (above) comments at the beginning of Part.1 of this thread, I would be in 100% agreement with you. How you can still make those comments now is just baffling.
Well excuse me for not commenting immediately on every story that occurs. All I was stating was my unease that public opinion appears to be driving the decision to take down Saville's headstone and the comment by the police that he was a serial sex offender. I've never stated that any of the allegations that have come out are untrue, but taking into account that a lot of information is coming out in a relatively short period of time, I'm just going to step back and wait for it to calm down and I have something more substantive to digest than internet gossip and interviews in the media.
I too remember when he died and how everyone was full of what a wonderful human being he was. Then a work colleague of mine filled us in on all the stories about him she had been told, at first we were pretty sceptical about it all, we admitted that all of us thought he 'looked a bit creepy' but that none of us would have thought it was any more than that, she elaborated on the 'suspected' child abuse, the 'suspected' necrophilia, the porter stories (that are beginning to come out now) and we got a bit uneasy about it all, we asked her how she knew all this and she told us about her connections at the BBC adding that all of the stories she had told us were common knowledge at the BBC but that nobody would touch him because of the charity work and the people who depended on him for the endless donations. I remember going home and telling my husband who said 'Jimmy Saville?? no way!!!' and then we didn't think about it any more until all this came up and the work colleague said 'don't say I didn't warn you'. She also told us about his brother who she said was put away for abusing comatose patients at the hospital where he too was a porter, this is something I've not read about though and can't find anything on.
Has anyone else heard this?
Surely that should enforce things not make someone take stock!. It figures that it is safety in numbers . Happened the same way for all the abuse in children homes both catholic and protestant. It just takes one brave person to speak out then the rest follow
Quite a few paedophile priests have been jailed primarily on sworn testimony relating back to sexual offences from many years ago from people who were children at the time. How else is a court of law going to decide the guilt of the suspect or not? The court quite rightly takes the view that if a number of accusers come forward naming the same person and are prepared to testify under oath, they are very likely to be telling the truth. The idea that they all would be lying and trying to frame an innocent man seems very far fetched.
Savile's family took the decision to take down the memorial.
It's very telling that the wording is to be ground off, and the pieces taken to landfill. Their public line has been that they're doing it out of respect for people who have family buried there, but it's my personal belief they're beginning to believe what's been in the media.
Their decision alone should tell you something about how they feel.
I apologise if you thought I was referring to you personally, I have tried since the first part of this thread to keep it to generalisations, rather than posters or celebrities. I realise my reply could be misconstrued.
But please try and think before you post. Yes, people would try to whitewash things, not so much this last week but, as someone who has worked with victims of abuse, if you took the trouble to do a modicum of research you'd realise that there are many who would whitewash it by saying "it was the culture of the 60's-80's" "the women were "asking for it" etc etc, and in the case of JS "what does it matter he's dead, and he raised millions for charity so he cant be all bad"
Absolute tosh.
Not really, take Christopher Jefferies for example. A lot of "stories" were appearing in the press about him in the press in a short space of time, which later turned out to be false.
I think remembering which of many shows you were on 40 years ago is a bit different to remembering if you sexually assaulted someone!
In the linked article, it says John Henry, Savile's brother, was sacked from a psychiatric hospital, in 1980, for sexual assault on a patient.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213931/Jimmy-Savile-Little-slaves-sordid-boasts-dark-truth-friend--biographer-Dan-Davies.html
I've heard that, but would like to know what else he could have been up to in there. It does sound dodgy but it might not be what some people think.
Well, read about Dave Jones, the Sheff Wed football manager and see if that changes your mind
The BBC were certainly partly to blame for the cult of Saville, especially shows like Jim'll Fix It. They created this myth of a kindly uncle type sitting on his armchair who loved children and was generous in spirit.
Interestingly though, many people who actually knew Saville saw through his public facade very quickly and worked out there was something creepy underneath. Which is why I think the likes of the Duncroft staff are a disgrace. Sure, they would have been taken in by his supposed charm the first few times he visited, but after a few months all sorts of alarm bells should have been ringing (and perhaps they were, which makes their dereliction of duty disgusting).
It's a pretty old one, rumour wise.
Lol! don't blame you
The nephew knew all about it:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213636/Uncle-Jimmy-took-sick-parties-Nephew-tells-childhood-stolen-13.html
Well yes, my brother's been saying it for years but I thought he was just winding me up!
I don't know much about that case but was it actually proven that the accusers lied or was it down to lack of evidence?
The videos and tapes and autobiography are in Jimmy Saville's own words, as are his recorded words about Gary Glitter. Have you seen, heard or read them? If not I'm sure links can be given to them again if you would like to read them now.
Anyone?