How it came to this, fails me. Who on earth thought that if someone is late for an appointment that stopping all of their income support would be a great idea?! It's like the concoction of a masochist!
I remember the days when you could walk into a job centre, look at the job boards on the wall, sit in line, talk to an adviser - who would then go through the job and let you use the phone to call the employer. At one time, some of the Job Centre staff were genuinely helpful and genuinely polite.
It seems that with the power of sanctioning that some of WP and DWP staff are playing God with people's life and actually revelling in the 'control' they have over people.
I have witnessed first hand DWP and Work Programme staff talking to job seekers with utter contempt.
This brings to the forefront of my mind the Stanford Prison Experiment. This 1971 experiment was conducted by psychology students acting out the parts as prison guards and prisoners. Given such power, the (pretend) prison guards started abusing their positions and it all became sadistic toward the prisoners. As a result of this, the experiment was cut short.
I do. If you can't be at an appointment on time you shouldn't get anything
Dear Ian,
Wait until you sign on buddy, God forbid! And when that DWP appointment letter doesn't arrive (2nd class post), or the system has the wrong contact number for you, or your bus is delayed in traffic so you miss your allotted time by 15 minutes....then, and only then reply with some a molecule of thought.
You should consider doing some voluntary work with the Samaritans or your local Food Bank, because there are people just like YOU, who thought just like YOU, that the system is correct and you get what you deserve if it somehow fails you. Believe me, it's a humbling experience.
Sadly, the Government don't give a toss about people dying due to sanctioning, they only want people off benefit. That's their only objective. If some people die because of it, they don't care.
Indeed.
They just want one little stat to look good, shift the issue elsewhere and have no interest in the bigger picture.
Who on earth thought that if someone is late for an appointment that stopping all of their income support would be a great idea?!
Has the procedure changed?
In 2013 it was.
If the JSA claimant is late the procedure is
discuss their reasons for late attendance; explain the implications of not attending at the correct time; and either discuss alternative fortnightly attendance arrangements or issue an ES19 warning letter. Do not automatically issue an ES19 warning letter only use it to target persistently late attenders. The ES19 warning letter only applies to their next attendence, if they are late for that next attendence then they may have their benefits sanctioned if they do not have a good reason for late attendence.
Has the procedure changed?
In 2013 it was.
If the JSA claimant is late the procedure is
discuss their reasons for late attendance; explain the implications of not attending at the correct time; and either discuss alternative fortnightly attendance arrangements or issue an ES19 warning letter. Do not automatically issue an ES19 warning letter only use it to target persistently late attenders. The ES19 warning letter only applies to their next attendence, if they are late for that next attendence then they may have their benefits sanctioned if they do not have a good reason for late attendence.
Unfortunately this is not the case for some. If you do not have, what is deemed, a reasonable excuse, they can stop payments.
Quite a few firms now refuse to advertise jobs on Universal Jobmatch. No wonder, it's complete rubbish.
looking at it I dont blame them, the "jobs" if they can be called jobs are of such poor quality, duplicated, and then triplicated, by company's with VERY generic websites, or who seem to exist only on UJM.
To say nothing of being part of a government system that encourages false applications, by unqualified people.
looking at it I dont blame them, the "jobs" if they can be called jobs are of such poor quality, duplicated, and then triplicated, by company's with VERY generic websites, or who seem to exist only on UJM.
To say nothing of being part of a government system that encourages false applications, by unqualified people.
this is exactly what people are feeling forced to do on Work Programmes in order to fill up a job search sheet - it's ridiculous. Companies are being inundated with CV's from wholly unsuitable candidates, and this slowing down the whole process.
Has the procedure changed?
In 2013 it was.
If the JSA claimant is late the procedure is
discuss their reasons for late attendance; explain the implications of not attending at the correct time; and either discuss alternative fortnightly attendance arrangements or issue an ES19 warning letter. Do not automatically issue an ES19 warning letter only use it to target persistently late attenders. The ES19 warning letter only applies to their next attendence, if they are late for that next attendence then they may have their benefits sanctioned if they do not have a good reason for late attendence.
No warnings now for most sanctions, half the time the person doesn't even know until no money comes through.
One of the biggest gripes about the sanction process is there is no warning, no 'yellow card' it's just: bang, your sanctioned.
this is exactly what people are feeling forced to do on Work Programmes in order to fill up a job search sheet - it's ridiculous. Companies are being inundated with CV's from wholly unsuitable candidates, and this slowing down the whole process.
in fairness some companys have got a very "busy" HR team, who are very good at dragging out the recruitment process, I am interviewing tomorrow, for a job, where I had two weeks notice of the interview, and the end date for applications was extended a week, it has been almost two months since I first put in my application (in fairness there was some time left on the clock after I applied)
People are forgetting the very basis of conservatism.
To get ahead and better yourself no matter what or who you have to trample over to get just what you want.
Then add to that the political angle that 1. making the unemployment figures look less by any means is a good thing to do if you are in power. 2. Reducing the money they have to pay out to people they consider of no use to them, means they can spend more money on people they do consider worthwhile.
Apply all of that to the jobcentre and they don't give the slightest **** about people who they have judged are not shafting everyone else to get ahead and if they can stop your money they can then give tax cuts to people who they do think are worthwhile as they are people who will trample over anyone to get ahead.
...and of course the very same people who are likely to vote conservative.
So no regard for people who will not be helping them get back into government and incentives for those who will.
This brings to the forefront of my mind the Stanford Prison Experiment. This 1971 experiment was conducted by psychology students acting out the parts as prison guards and prisoners. Given such power, the (pretend) prison guards started abusing their positions and it all became sadistic toward the prisoners. As a result of this, the experiment was cut short.
Are sanctions legal in the first place considering what it says on the JSA reward letter?
The reward letter clearly states "How much money the law says you need to live off each week
Also how the hell do they get this derisable amount?
Yes but we also has a law that says that by law the minimum wage per hour you have to pay someone is £X.XX.
They just have a counter law saying that if it's the Government and something they decide, they none of the above applies.
The system has never ever been fair: If you are paid two weeks of benefits and work one day of 8 hours where you earn half your benefits money, they don't stop you 8 hours of benefits, no, they stop you half of your benefits and so a whole weeks worth.
Hope you remember this if you're ever late for work.
Exactly! I'd love to hear the conversation when due to a late bus or anything else they turn up 5 mins late for work and are then expected to work the rest of the week for no money at all.
I bet it shouldn't go "Oh I agree Mr Boss, that's very reasonable of you!"
Are sanctions legal in the first place considering what it says on the JSA reward letter?
The reward letter clearly states "How much money the law says you need to live off each week
Also how the hell do they get this derisable amount?
I don't know how anyone is supposed to live on £71 a week seeing as that doesn't even cover the utilities. Gas and electric is £20 each, rent in my area is £10, then £5 for council tax, £5 tv licence that doesn't even include travel, monthly bills like pay as you go phones or the internet which you have to have if you are looking for jobs. I'm sure I am missing something, ah yes FOOD. I think I might even email George Osbourne right now and ask him.
I just wrote him this:
Dear Mr. Osbourne,
I was wondering how you came up with the figure that £71 per week is enough money for a single person to live on? If you could give me a break down of how you worked out the price of utilities (Gas, rent, electric, council tax and TV licence) the cost of a mobile phone, internet and lastly food. I have not included travel, shoes, clothes, hair cuts, sanitary or bathing materials but if you could tell me how people are expected to budget for this, I would be most grateful. I am mainly asking as it is such an unusual (albeit extremely low) figure to come up with.
Hope to hear from you with your calculations before May.
Comments
I do. If you can't be at an appointment on time you shouldn't get anything
No my names not Duncan
Dear Ian,
Wait until you sign on buddy, God forbid! And when that DWP appointment letter doesn't arrive (2nd class post), or the system has the wrong contact number for you, or your bus is delayed in traffic so you miss your allotted time by 15 minutes....then, and only then reply with some a molecule of thought.
You should consider doing some voluntary work with the Samaritans or your local Food Bank, because there are people just like YOU, who thought just like YOU, that the system is correct and you get what you deserve if it somehow fails you. Believe me, it's a humbling experience.
Indeed.
They just want one little stat to look good, shift the issue elsewhere and have no interest in the bigger picture.
In 2013 it was.
If the JSA claimant is late the procedure is
discuss their reasons for late attendance; explain the implications of not attending at the correct time; and either discuss alternative fortnightly attendance arrangements or issue an ES19 warning letter. Do not automatically issue an ES19 warning letter only use it to target persistently late attenders. The ES19 warning letter only applies to their next attendence, if they are late for that next attendence then they may have their benefits sanctioned if they do not have a good reason for late attendence.
Unfortunately this is not the case for some. If you do not have, what is deemed, a reasonable excuse, they can stop payments.
To say nothing of being part of a government system that encourages false applications, by unqualified people.
I got a job off indeed jobs.
this is exactly what people are feeling forced to do on Work Programmes in order to fill up a job search sheet - it's ridiculous. Companies are being inundated with CV's from wholly unsuitable candidates, and this slowing down the whole process.
No warnings now for most sanctions, half the time the person doesn't even know until no money comes through.
One of the biggest gripes about the sanction process is there is no warning, no 'yellow card' it's just: bang, your sanctioned.
To get ahead and better yourself no matter what or who you have to trample over to get just what you want.
Then add to that the political angle that 1. making the unemployment figures look less by any means is a good thing to do if you are in power. 2. Reducing the money they have to pay out to people they consider of no use to them, means they can spend more money on people they do consider worthwhile.
Apply all of that to the jobcentre and they don't give the slightest **** about people who they have judged are not shafting everyone else to get ahead and if they can stop your money they can then give tax cuts to people who they do think are worthwhile as they are people who will trample over anyone to get ahead.
...and of course the very same people who are likely to vote conservative.
So no regard for people who will not be helping them get back into government and incentives for those who will.
That's politics!
The reward letter clearly states "How much money the law says you need to live off each week
Also how the hell do they get this derisable amount?
That sounds like a movie I saw starring forest whittaker
Hope you remember this if you're ever late for work.
Yes but we also has a law that says that by law the minimum wage per hour you have to pay someone is £X.XX.
They just have a counter law saying that if it's the Government and something they decide, they none of the above applies.
The system has never ever been fair: If you are paid two weeks of benefits and work one day of 8 hours where you earn half your benefits money, they don't stop you 8 hours of benefits, no, they stop you half of your benefits and so a whole weeks worth.
Exactly! I'd love to hear the conversation when due to a late bus or anything else they turn up 5 mins late for work and are then expected to work the rest of the week for no money at all.
I bet it shouldn't go "Oh I agree Mr Boss, that's very reasonable of you!"
I don't know how anyone is supposed to live on £71 a week seeing as that doesn't even cover the utilities. Gas and electric is £20 each, rent in my area is £10, then £5 for council tax, £5 tv licence that doesn't even include travel, monthly bills like pay as you go phones or the internet which you have to have if you are looking for jobs. I'm sure I am missing something, ah yes FOOD. I think I might even email George Osbourne right now and ask him.
Dear Mr. Osbourne,
I was wondering how you came up with the figure that £71 per week is enough money for a single person to live on? If you could give me a break down of how you worked out the price of utilities (Gas, rent, electric, council tax and TV licence) the cost of a mobile phone, internet and lastly food. I have not included travel, shoes, clothes, hair cuts, sanitary or bathing materials but if you could tell me how people are expected to budget for this, I would be most grateful. I am mainly asking as it is such an unusual (albeit extremely low) figure to come up with.
Hope to hear from you with your calculations before May.
Regards
Karapote Monkey