I agree she wasn't awesome. In fact, I now wonder why she's been so hyped up - I would have expected higher performances from a professional dancer who was paid professional money to dance professionally to an audience who were discerning enough to distinguish between professional and unprofessional dances.
I didn't like Denise's show dance - to me, she looked like an ungainly black spider being thrown around in the web of James Jordan's arms. Yes - it was clever but to me it was a show lift exhibition with not much dancing and a lot of showing off. I much preferred Louis' - it had strength and grace and his lines were stunning. I always thought Louis would win on his show dance and he did and deservedly so in my opinion.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me but it is how her dance made me feel - and I don't think the arachnic styled costume helped. Yes - she is a good dancer but then so is Kimberley - but Kimberley improved so much in the last four weeks and became consistently good - so I do hope she came second.
I agree she wasn't awesome. In fact, I now wonder why she's been so hyped up - I would have expected higher performances from a professional dancer who was paid professional money to dance professionally to an audience who were discerning enough to distinguish between professional and unprofessional dances.
Do you mean dances, or dancers at the end ? Well, we have to agree to differ. Some of us thought it was awesome, some insist it wasn't. Same with the professional dancer bit - although that's less of a debate because Denise is not a professional dancer. Although some posters try to insist she is, in fact she isn't, she's a professional performer but not specifically in dance. No matter what, it was a very brave showdance and she should be praised for that.
Do you mean dances, or dancers at the end ? Well, we have to agree to differ. Some of us thought it was awesome, some insist it wasn't. Same with the professional dancer bit - although that's less of a debate because Denise is not a professional dancer. Although some posters try to insist she is, in fact she isn't, she's a professional performer but not specifically in dance. No matter what, it was a very brave showdance and she should be praised for that.
if she paid to dance, that makes her a professional dancer - professional as in her job. Would you pay a solicitor who wasn't qualified to give you legal advice?
if she paid to dance, that makes her a professional dancer - professional as in her job. Would you pay a solicitor who wasn't qualified to give you legal advice?
Well I was a schoolteacher, but I also had to sing sometimes, in a school concert. That doesn't make me a professional singer, in my view.
if she paid to dance, that makes her a professional dancer - professional as in her job. Would you pay a solicitor who wasn't qualified to give you legal advice?
So by the same token Kimberley is a trained professional dancer having appeared in Shrek dancing?
if she paid to dance, that makes her a professional dancer - professional as in her job. Would you pay a solicitor who wasn't qualified to give you legal advice?
If she'd been paid purely to dance, then yes, but she wasn't. She was paid to perform in a musical, which involves dancing but doesn't require a professional dancer to play the part.
Well I was a schoolteacher, but I also had to sing sometimes, in a school concert. That doesn't make me a professional singer, in my view.
Your primary role, which was to teach. You were, therefore, a teacher. That was your profession. I don't know why this debate has gathered the momentum it has; Denise promoted herself as a singer and dancer when she was in those shows. If she had done the work voluntarily/for charity then I could accept she was not a professional dancer. Money changed hands, a contract was formed: the audience paid to see professional dancing.
If she'd been paid purely to dance, then yes, but she wasn't. She was paid to perform in a musical, which involves dancing but doesn't require a professional dancer to play the part.
She was a professional artiste. It doesn't matter whether she sang and/or danced - she was paid as a professional for her services. Let's use another analogy: a woman sells her body for money - she is a professional. A man doesn't expect, when he hands over the money, to get a frigid lay. Sorry I tried the clean Lawyer analogy but it didn't get there
So by the same token Kimberley is a trained professional dancer having appeared in Shrek dancing?
Yes I don't know what else you'd call it. The same was when she 'sing's' in Girl's aloud - they're a professional singing group (although that's very debateable.)
Sorry I tried the clean Lawyer analogy but it didn't get there
The lawyer analogy didn't get there because it's inaccurate. A lawyer is someone who's qualified in law, having studied the law, often for many years, and obtained professional qualifications without which they cannot practice (and I'm currently in that process, so I'm not wrong about that.)
Denise has no dance qualifications, she's a stage school graduate, which is fine for a career on the stage, but does not make her a professional dancer who can offer out her services to entertain through dance alone like a lawyer can offer legal services.
I'm not going to respond to your completely tasteless other analogy, but suffice to say I don't think any analogy with any professional service is equivalent to Denise's dance experience.
The lawyer analogy didn't get there because it's inaccurate. A lawyer is someone who's qualified in law, having studied the law, often for many years, and obtained professional qualifications without which they cannot practice (and I'm currently in that process, so I'm not wrong about that.)
Denise has no dance qualifications, she's a stage school graduate, which is fine for a career on the stage, but does not make her a professional dancer who can offer out her services to entertain through dance alone like a lawyer can offer legal services.
I'm not going to respond to your completely tasteless other analogy, but suffice to say I don't think any analogy with any professional service is equivalent to Denise's dance experience.
Well said Mystical, and you're absolutely right, but I don't think you'll convince MtoM. I told him/ her about my being a teacher and sometimes having to sing in a school concert (for which I was paid as part of my salary of course) but that it didn't make me a professional singer, especially as I was hopeless at singing !! As a primary teacher you do such things, because you have to be able to do almost anything as a primary teacher. But you're not a professional nosewiper, nurse, or whatever !!
I didn't like Denise's show dance - to me, she looked like an ungainly black spider being thrown around in the web of James Jordan's arms. Yes - it was clever but to me it was a show lift exhibition with not much dancing and a lot of showing off. I much preferred Louis' - it had strength and grace and his lines were stunning. I always thought Louis would win on his show dance and he did and deservedly so in my opinion.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me but it is how her dance made me feel - and I don't think the arachnic styled costume helped. Yes - she is a good dancer but then so is Kimberley - but Kimberley improved so much in the last four weeks and became consistently good - so I do hope she came second.
I'm one person who is agreeing! For me it was a show-off dance - except there was very little in the way of dancing. It was like watching a circus performer - lot of "oohs" and "aahs" but no emotional connection.
Louis connected. Denise - technically superb as her dance was - didn't.
That is a showdance watch the pro ones... Denise and james you were awesome
I still think, after all the sequins have settled, that Denise is the only celeb to date who had the strength, flexibility, technique, right partner, and nerve to pull off a really good show dance.
She certainly blew James away, and probably some of the other pro dancers too, and the judges were awestruck.
It will be one of the absolute classic Strictly dances.
Probably, as there's no cash in it, better to dance memorably than to do any old moves just to get an ugly glitterball trophy.
The lawyer analogy didn't get there because it's inaccurate. A lawyer is someone who's qualified in law, having studied the law, often for many years, and obtained professional qualifications without which they cannot practice (and I'm currently in that process, so I'm not wrong about that.)
Denise has no dance qualifications, she's a stage school graduate, which is fine for a career on the stage, but does not make her a professional dancer who can offer out her services to entertain through dance alone like a lawyer can offer legal services.
I'm not going to respond to your completely tasteless other analogy, but suffice to say I don't think any analogy with any professional service is equivalent to Denise's dance experience.
I would have thought that as you're going through the process of studying law you'd understand the perfectly clear analogy. So when you're qualified, you'll be charging for your services, which makes you a professional. I don't understand what is so hard to understand about that except that there's lots of desperation to cling onto any hope of justifying Denise being a non-dancer when even Darcey said it herself last night.
The lawyer analogy didn't get there because it's inaccurate. A lawyer is someone who's qualified in law, having studied the law, often for many years, and obtained professional qualifications without which they cannot practice (and I'm currently in that process, so I'm not wrong about that.)
Denise has no dance qualifications, she's a stage school graduate, which is fine for a career on the stage, but does not make her a professional dancer who can offer out her services to entertain through dance alone like a lawyer can offer legal services.
I'm not going to respond to your completely tasteless other analogy, but suffice to say I don't think any analogy with any professional service is equivalent to Denise's dance experience.
Mystical, thank you for expressing this so eloquently. It became so tiring seeing the endless criticism of Denise from some quarters just because they didn't believe she had any right to be on the show based on such a spurious basis. The simple fact is that she was on the show and it is a shame that people could not simply accept that and enjoy her performances for what they were.
Comments
:rolleyes:She's a professional PERFORMER, but not a professional BALLROOM/LATIN DANCER.
I thought their showdance was in a different league, and by far the best. None of the others even came close.
DITTO:)
but it was not AWESOME either.
I agree she wasn't awesome. In fact, I now wonder why she's been so hyped up - I would have expected higher performances from a professional dancer who was paid professional money to dance professionally to an audience who were discerning enough to distinguish between professional and unprofessional dances.
totally agree
I know a lot of people will disagree with me but it is how her dance made me feel - and I don't think the arachnic styled costume helped. Yes - she is a good dancer but then so is Kimberley - but Kimberley improved so much in the last four weeks and became consistently good - so I do hope she came second.
Do you mean dances, or dancers at the end ? Well, we have to agree to differ. Some of us thought it was awesome, some insist it wasn't. Same with the professional dancer bit - although that's less of a debate because Denise is not a professional dancer. Although some posters try to insist she is, in fact she isn't, she's a professional performer but not specifically in dance. No matter what, it was a very brave showdance and she should be praised for that.
if she paid to dance, that makes her a professional dancer - professional as in her job. Would you pay a solicitor who wasn't qualified to give you legal advice?
Well I was a schoolteacher, but I also had to sing sometimes, in a school concert. That doesn't make me a professional singer, in my view.
madetomeasure refuses to be convinced I'm afraid !!
So by the same token Kimberley is a trained professional dancer having appeared in Shrek dancing?
If she'd been paid purely to dance, then yes, but she wasn't. She was paid to perform in a musical, which involves dancing but doesn't require a professional dancer to play the part.
Your primary role, which was to teach. You were, therefore, a teacher. That was your profession. I don't know why this debate has gathered the momentum it has; Denise promoted herself as a singer and dancer when she was in those shows. If she had done the work voluntarily/for charity then I could accept she was not a professional dancer. Money changed hands, a contract was formed: the audience paid to see professional dancing.
She was a professional artiste. It doesn't matter whether she sang and/or danced - she was paid as a professional for her services. Let's use another analogy: a woman sells her body for money - she is a professional. A man doesn't expect, when he hands over the money, to get a frigid lay. Sorry I tried the clean Lawyer analogy but it didn't get there
Yes I don't know what else you'd call it. The same was when she 'sing's' in Girl's aloud - they're a professional singing group (although that's very debateable.)
The lawyer analogy didn't get there because it's inaccurate. A lawyer is someone who's qualified in law, having studied the law, often for many years, and obtained professional qualifications without which they cannot practice (and I'm currently in that process, so I'm not wrong about that.)
Denise has no dance qualifications, she's a stage school graduate, which is fine for a career on the stage, but does not make her a professional dancer who can offer out her services to entertain through dance alone like a lawyer can offer legal services.
I'm not going to respond to your completely tasteless other analogy, but suffice to say I don't think any analogy with any professional service is equivalent to Denise's dance experience.
I agree. Louis did a display of gymnastics, having forgotten his shirt !
Well said Mystical, and you're absolutely right, but I don't think you'll convince MtoM. I told him/ her about my being a teacher and sometimes having to sing in a school concert (for which I was paid as part of my salary of course) but that it didn't make me a professional singer, especially as I was hopeless at singing !! As a primary teacher you do such things, because you have to be able to do almost anything as a primary teacher. But you're not a professional nosewiper, nurse, or whatever !!
I'm one person who is agreeing! For me it was a show-off dance - except there was very little in the way of dancing. It was like watching a circus performer - lot of "oohs" and "aahs" but no emotional connection.
Louis connected. Denise - technically superb as her dance was - didn't.
I wasn't keen on Kimberly's dance...sorry...
I still think, after all the sequins have settled, that Denise is the only celeb to date who had the strength, flexibility, technique, right partner, and nerve to pull off a really good show dance.
She certainly blew James away, and probably some of the other pro dancers too, and the judges were awestruck.
It will be one of the absolute classic Strictly dances.
Probably, as there's no cash in it, better to dance memorably than to do any old moves just to get an ugly glitterball trophy.
I would have thought that as you're going through the process of studying law you'd understand the perfectly clear analogy. So when you're qualified, you'll be charging for your services, which makes you a professional. I don't understand what is so hard to understand about that except that there's lots of desperation to cling onto any hope of justifying Denise being a non-dancer when even Darcey said it herself last night.
Mystical, thank you for expressing this so eloquently. It became so tiring seeing the endless criticism of Denise from some quarters just because they didn't believe she had any right to be on the show based on such a spurious basis. The simple fact is that she was on the show and it is a shame that people could not simply accept that and enjoy her performances for what they were.
No, I refuse to be railroaded into changing my stance - difference.