getting a job as a cameraman advice

emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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where on the internet is best to look for a job as a cameraman ? looking on both the bbc & itv site there doesn't appear to be anything of this nature.i would be looking for somewhere at entry level with no formal experience
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  • c4rvc4rv Posts: 29,598
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    Start here,

    https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/tvorfilmcameraoperator.aspx


    A lot of production for BBC and ITV is done by other companies
  • Rae_RooRae_Roo Posts: 1,185
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    emails wrote: »
    where on the internet is best to look for a job as a cameraman ? looking on both the bbc & itv site there doesn't appear to be anything of this nature.i would be looking for somewhere at entry level with no formal experience

    I'd have said without formal experience it's not easy to get into, particularly at that level...

    My brother works in the film industry, and shoots on a regular basis, it's very competitive amongst the technical crew. You'll find there are a lot of people who dedicate their spare time to learning the craft, on top of obtaining qualifications or extensive experience.

    I've attended numerous shoots, when I can, it's certainly not the setting for taking in a novice and showing them the ropes! You might find you have a chance getting involved in student films, likely without pay though, it's a common starting ground. Seems to me, you are trying to run before you can walk a little...
  • duckyluckyduckylucky Posts: 13,845
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    emails wrote: »
    where on the internet is best to look for a job as a cameraman ? looking on both the bbc & itv site there doesn't appear to be anything of this nature.i would be looking for somewhere at entry level with no formal experience

    There are many out there who are formally trained and with film production degrees . Its a competive world and many with years experience vieing for jobs
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 656
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    You would need to start as a runner and work your way up to a camera assistant level and do that for years before you'd make it to a cameraman.
    Don't set yourself up for failure, and try and find work as a runner on location shoots and get experience and climb the ladder that way.
    Would also recommend doing courses in filmmaking.
  • toofasttoofast Posts: 2,240
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    Rae_Roo wrote: »
    I'd have said without formal experience it's not easy to get into, particularly at that level...

    My brother works in the film industry, and shoots on a regular basis, it's very competitive amongst the technical crew. You'll find there are a lot of people who dedicate their spare time to learning the craft, on top of obtaining qualifications or extensive experience.

    I've attended numerous shoots, when I can, it's certainly not the setting for taking in a novice and showing them the ropes! You might find you have a chance getting involved in student films, likely without pay though, it's a common starting ground. Seems to me, you are trying to run before you can walk a little...

    I agree with the above. It's a very competitive industry and most top cameramen will have a degree related qualification, and only then start at the bottom rung of the ladder!
    Just one more thing - and it's just being realistic - but having experience working as part of a crew of sets, the hours are extremely long and shifts are very unsociable. It really is not very career glamorous at all. The work can be very sporadic with short-term contracts etc.
    Just be realistic. Is this really something you want to do as a career?
  • technologisttechnologist Posts: 13,370
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    Can I just add to pointing out that the FACT is that most people nowadays start almost below the bottom with a degree. - and then there is a a lot of very hard work long hours etc to move up the chain.
    That route also is used by directors and others ... who need to know about using the moving image creativitly.

    (As most firms are small and cannot afford to take on people to train them - unlike the BBC Was able to do when it actually employed over a few hundred camera people!)

    If you are interested in TV work then look at "the Guild" http://www.gtc.org.uk/
    or Film Work " the society" http://www.bscine.com/
    what you do and need to know about is different between the two ancient branches -
    after all a TV camera output is straitght on air and bright! while a film output needs grading .... so looks dark grey!
    (if you do not understand this you need to do a lot of work)
    So do you understand the optical theory behind this... and the electronics for TV ...

    There are some on the industry who consider that the universities do not provide graduate with enough practical knowledge so look at http://www.ittp.org.uk/
    ... there is some truth in this - some unis are better than others -

    But then if a student is keen and wants to get on - much of what ITTP tries to teach should; already be in the students mind before they go to university!

    It is a long struggle to survive in this like most media industries - ...
    let alone reach anything like the top..... (and it was about 30 year ago as well)

    But if you have got a good eye for the shot , are prepared to learn and work long hours etc -
    Good luck.
  • toofasttoofast Posts: 2,240
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    Can I just add to pointing out that the FACT is that most people nowadays start almost below the bottom with a degree. - and then there is a a lot of very hard work long hours etc to move up the chain.
    That route also is used by directors and others ... who need to know about using the moving image creativitly.

    (As most firms are small and cannot afford to take on people to train them - unlike the BBC Was able to do when it actually employed over a few hundred camera people!)

    If you are interested in TV work then look at "the Guild" http://www.gtc.org.uk/
    or Film Work " the society" http://www.bscine.com/
    what you do and need to know about is different between the two ancient branches -
    after all a TV camera output is straitght on air and bright! while a film output needs grading .... so looks dark grey!
    (if you do not understand this you need to do a lot of work)
    So do you understand the optical theory behind this... and the electronics for TV ...

    There are some on the industry who consider that the universities do not provide graduate with enough practical knowledge so look at http://www.ittp.org.uk/
    ... there is some truth in this - some unis are better than others -

    But then if a student is keen and wants to get on - much of what ITTP tries to teach should; already be in the students mind before they go to university!

    It is a long struggle to survive in this like most media industries - ...
    let alone reach anything like the top..... (and it was about 30 year ago as well)

    But if you have got a good eye for the shot , are prepared to learn and work long hours etc -
    Good luck.

    Good advice. The hours you guys do are just unbelievable. When I worked as crew, going from set to set with 2-3 hour naps in between I wondered how on earth people do this for years on end....mostly without that much reward - unless you reach the top of your profession of course. From the outside this industry looks exciting, but when you scratch beneath the surface it's bloody hard and taxing work.
  • grumpyoldbatgrumpyoldbat Posts: 3,663
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    If you can find a video/professional camera hire company in your area, you might be able to approach them for an apprenticeship - learning on the job whilst you study at the same time.

    There are also degree courses for live events work, which would include cameras:
    http://www.backstage-academy.co.uk. Live camera work is different to studio work, but the equipment is often the same/similar.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 397
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    hi emails

    from all your emails in the broadcasting section, it's been pretty obvious for years that you have a passion for tv.

    unfortunately, this is not enough to simply get you a job as a cameraman.

    as others have said, this is a very technical area with many experienced and trained cameramen already out there. why do you think you can get an 'entry level' job without any form of training?

    i have seen over the years your many posts on 'getting into' tv and my heart sinks a little when i see you desperately trying to get your kids on tv...

    if you really want to pursue a career in tv (in whatever role) you will need training, probably start at basic runner level shadowing others and lots of hard work and dedication.

    there is no shortcut.
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    c4rv wrote: »
    Start here,

    https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/tvorfilmcameraoperator.aspx


    A lot of production for BBC and ITV is done by other companies

    ok thanks for that:)
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    Rae_Roo wrote: »
    I'd have said without formal experience it's not easy to get into, particularly at that level...

    My brother works in the film industry, and shoots on a regular basis, it's very competitive amongst the technical crew. You'll find there are a lot of people who dedicate their spare time to learning the craft, on top of obtaining qualifications or extensive experience.

    I've attended numerous shoots, when I can, it's certainly not the setting for taking in a novice and showing them the ropes! You might find you have a chance getting involved in student films, likely without pay though, it's a common starting ground. Seems to me, you are trying to run before you can walk a little...
    unfortunately for me my trade at the moment is cleaning on the min wage shit by any standards ,but i have had a long term ambition to get into the media in some form ,the idea of being a cameraman looks a good start ,& have been on a few tv studio tours trying to get a taste on what goes on behind the scenes.
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    N8JevTBH wrote: »
    You would need to start as a runner and work your way up to a camera assistant level and do that for years before you'd make it to a cameraman.
    Don't set yourself up for failure, and try and find work as a runner on location shoots and get experience and climb the ladder that way.
    Would also recommend doing courses in filmmaking.

    film making courses i did look at but was put off by some that you have to pay get on such courses. a runner sounds good but not sure whats fully involved in that?
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    toofast wrote: »
    I agree with the above. It's a very competitive industry and most top cameramen will have a degree related qualification, and only then start at the bottom rung of the ladder!
    Just one more thing - and it's just being realistic - but having experience working as part of a crew of sets, the hours are extremely long and shifts are very unsociable. It really is not very career glamorous at all. The work can be very sporadic with short-term contracts etc.
    Just be realistic. Is this really something you want to do as a career?

    back in the day i have done alot of silly hours ,12 plus hours in some cases it would not be too much of an issue ,however given the state of life at the moment ,not sure yet?
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    Can I just add to pointing out that the FACT is that most people nowadays start almost below the bottom with a degree. - and then there is a a lot of very hard work long hours etc to move up the chain.
    That route also is used by directors and others ... who need to know about using the moving image creativitly.

    (As most firms are small and cannot afford to take on people to train them - unlike the BBC Was able to do when it actually employed over a few hundred camera people!)

    If you are interested in TV work then look at "the Guild" http://www.gtc.org.uk/
    or Film Work " the society" http://www.bscine.com/
    what you do and need to know about is different between the two ancient branches -
    after all a TV camera output is straitght on air and bright! while a film output needs grading .... so looks dark grey!
    (if you do not understand this you need to do a lot of work)
    So do you understand the optical theory behind this... and the electronics for TV ...

    There are some on the industry who consider that the universities do not provide graduate with enough practical knowledge so look at http://www.ittp.org.uk/
    ... there is some truth in this - some unis are better than others -

    But then if a student is keen and wants to get on - much of what ITTP tries to teach should; already be in the students mind before they go to university!

    It is a long struggle to survive in this like most media industries - ...
    let alone reach anything like the top..... (and it was about 30 year ago as well)

    But if you have got a good eye for the shot , are prepared to learn and work long hours etc -
    Good luck.

    how does all this look at someone in there 40s? also what about freelance? working in news production? on location with news crews?
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    hi emails

    from all your emails in the broadcasting section, it's been pretty obvious for years that you have a passion for tv.

    unfortunately, this is not enough to simply get you a job as a cameraman.

    as others have said, this is a very technical area with many experienced and trained cameramen already out there. why do you think you can get an 'entry level' job without any form of training?

    i have seen over the years your many posts on 'getting into' tv and my heart sinks a little when i see you desperately trying to get your kids on tv...

    if you really want to pursue a career in tv (in whatever role) you will need training, probably start at basic runner level shadowing others and lots of hard work and dedication.

    there is no shortcut.
    i am suprised you have all my posts,aspeacially in the broadcast sections.i usally look in there for anything of interest in broadcasting news ,it does interest me. i have done a few studio tours & have been to alot of tv shows .yes if my children are interested i will give them a chance,my daughter currently wants to she herself on the voice & has applide for it. i want to get on dond,no chance of that yet. yes working on cameras does interest me ,but alot of other things in tv does too,working in the gallery looks good,as does on the studio floor.but at the moment i work as a cleaner,not the most interesting job ,but its work for now.
  • technologisttechnologist Posts: 13,370
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    emails wrote: »
    how does all this look at someone in there 40s? also what about freelance? working in news production? on location with news crews?

    The vast majority of the work is freelance .....
    Less so in news crewing .
    . But the major news gatherers have short contract or stringer camera ops ..
    And in news you have to be seen to be dependable ...... And reliable to a level greater than other work

    If you are 40 and joining the industry you need to be v good ...- -as there are so many new people leaving uni ....
    But you may have some of the other skills needed .. Like good health and safety awareness and some mechanical electronic and understanding how things work ....
    Read zerb to get a better idea of what is needed......

    But an eye for the picture and knowing how to get it ....
    And having a show reel prove it are more than essential. ....

    Any media work is difficult to get into ..... The industry is not that big ..- although a lot bigger than it was say 30 years ago, ...
    But in that time there probably has been more than 100 fold increase in " media" type courses ...
    And there are just not that many jobs .....

    And although I have seen a few who I have employed at once there are so many others who are deluding themselves ....
    And it takes a lot of work and time to get your craft established ..


    Update today there is the creative skill set report http://creativeskillset.org/news_events/press_office/3412_workforce_survey_calls_for_fairer_access_to_creative_media_industries#!prettyPhoto
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    The vast majority of the work is freelance .....
    Less so in news crewing .
    . But the major news gatherers have short contract or stringer camera ops ..
    And in news you have to be seen to be dependable ...... And reliable to a level greater than other work

    If you are 40 and joining the industry you need to be v good ...- -as there are so many new people leaving uni ....
    But you may have some of the other skills needed .. Like good health and safety awareness and some mechanical electronic and understanding how things work ....
    Read zerb to get a better idea of what is needed......

    But an eye for the picture and knowing how to get it ....
    And having a show reel prove it are more than essential. ....

    Any media work is difficult to get into ..... The industry is not that big ..- although a lot bigger than it was say 30 years ago, ...
    But in that time there probably has been more than 100 fold increase in " media" type courses ...
    And there are just not that many jobs .....

    And although I have seen a few who I have employed at once there are so many others who are deluding themselves ....
    And it takes a lot of work and time to get your craft established ..


    Update today there is the creative skill set report http://creativeskillset.org/news_events/press_office/3412_workforce_survey_calls_for_fairer_access_to_creative_media_industries#!prettyPhoto

    ok thats somthing to think about i guess
  • MaxatoriaMaxatoria Posts: 17,980
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    Sometimes think sideways to get where you want, perhaps work as part of the crew that does cleanups after the shoots (since you have experience) and get having a word in the ear of people while you're around the place and you never know they may be short of someone to fill a minor role one day and since they know you may say well give him a chance as they'll perhaps trust you more than someone they've never met?
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    Maxatoria wrote: »
    Sometimes think sideways to get where you want, perhaps work as part of the crew that does cleanups after the shoots (since you have experience) and get having a word in the ear of people while you're around the place and you never know they may be short of someone to fill a minor role one day and since they know you may say well give him a chance as they'll perhaps trust you more than someone they've never met?

    yes sounds good where could i go to get that? do the media employ cleaners?
  • Rae_RooRae_Roo Posts: 1,185
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    emails wrote: »
    yes sounds good where could i go to get that? do the media employ cleaners?

    I assume you have access to the internet and a phone? You will need to adopt some initiative to get ahead, what you want will certainly not fall into your lap... And at 40ish? You're already hitting an upwards battle against all graduates, and people who have experience.. the kinds of people who have been tinkering with still photography and film all their life's, the types of guys I knew doing it as teenagers, learning the gear and software.

    Do you have any skills in the area at all? I mean would you know anything? I think the previous post about being in the right place, with short staff might give ya a break, is delusional to be honest. If you know nothing technically then the best you might hope for is running lunch orders, a gopher essentially... Nothing wrong with that, people use it as an in road, but in your 40's it's not going to get you where you've wanted in earlier posts.

    I'd think you need to do some research, utilise the few suggestions you've had here. I think you need to be realistic about what you can achieve, without going pedal to the metal, in training and study, and hope you have a natural ability to learn quickly, what some have spent their teen years, 20's, 30's and beyond doing.
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    Rae_Roo wrote: »
    I assume you have access to the internet and a phone? You will need to adopt some initiative to get ahead, what you want will certainly not fall into your lap... And at 40ish? You're already hitting an upwards battle against all graduates, and people who have experience.. the kinds of people who have been tinkering with still photography and film all their life's, the types of guys I knew doing it as teenagers, learning the gear and software.

    Do you have any skills in the area at all? I mean would you know anything? I think the previous post about being in the right place, with short staff might give ya a break, is delusional to be honest. If you know nothing technically then the best you might hope for is running lunch orders, a gopher essentially... Nothing wrong with that, people use it as an in road, but in your 40's it's not going to get you where you've wanted in earlier posts.

    I'd think you need to do some research, utilise the few suggestions you've had here. I think you need to be realistic about what you can achieve, without going pedal to the metal, in training and study, and hope you have a natural ability to learn quickly, what some have spent their teen years, 20's, 30's and beyond doing.


    right ok fair enough.the nearest i know about cameras & there use is my cam corder & thats very basic. though have viewed some online videos at youtube showing how to oporate such cameras yes more online searches i can do in the mean time do more tv tours.
  • Vast_GirthVast_Girth Posts: 9,793
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    My friend is a cameraman at the BBC. The route he took was to do a degree in broadcasting (or something similar i forget). He then got a job working as a studio manager for the world service. Within the BBC you can do attachments to various other departments, one of which he did was camerman work. He liked it as was luckily able to continue to do it.
  • grumpyoldbatgrumpyoldbat Posts: 3,663
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    emails wrote: »
    right ok fair enough.the nearest i know about cameras & there use is my cam corder & thats very basic. though have viewed some online videos at youtube showing how to oporate such cameras yes more online searches i can do in the mean time do more tv tours.

    You're not going to get a job in the media by going on studio tours. If you read back over all of the advice here, you need to be putting in a lot more effort to break into a very competitive industry.

    Your camcorder is not comparable to a broadcast camera and the technology involved in professional cameras. Watching a video on YouTube is not going to enable you to convince someone to give you a job. You need to be realistic. If you want to start in broadcast at age 40+, you're going to have to bite the bullet and get some formal education in the subject, AND you need to be prepared that even when you've done that, you won't walk into a job easily, because the vast majority of employers will expect someone to have on the job experience.

    Your first step, if you're serious about this, is to find suitable courses, and then make enquiries as to whether you can get the necessary funding to support yourself through the course.
  • emailsemails Posts: 11,282
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    ok thanks for that
  • mincepiemincepie Posts: 702
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    As someone who wanted to do this, but ended up in a different area of broadcast TV....

    Well as everyone else has said, get some training, experience etc.
    TV wise, most cameramen are freelance now, this shift away from in house staff does not help people looking to get into the industry, alas there's not a lot you can do about that....

    In the broadcast/TV world, you're more likely to have to work as a runner to begin with, to get experience of the structure of the industry and the like. Aside from the BBC/ITV etc there are many many independent production companies out there, these are the ones to think about, you've much more chance of success here.

    Consider also the more 'irrelevant' parts of TV - religious channels, shopping channels etc. These will be much smaller outfits, limited pay, and staff will have to 'multitask' but as a beginner, that's just what you want. Plus some of them seem to have a fairly high job turnover (probably as the money is often poor - London on minimum wage isn't really something you can sustain long term with any sort of lifestyle) - so their adverts seen to pop up quite often on job sites.

    Understanding the technical skills will work in your favor, at some-point anyways - buy a cheap DSLR camera (new or second hand) and make sure you know about aperture/shutter/ISO/DOF/color temperature/lenses etc. Oh and the basics of sound Maybe try creating a Youtube showreel one day.

    TV/Broadcast jobs tend to sit on a few specialist websites - you won't find them on Reed/Monster etc

    http://www.mandy.com/1/jobs.cfm
    This has film and TV jobs. Both paid and unpaid. Film and live broadcast TV are in many ways, not the same in terms of workflow, although a causal observer might think they are. You will see unpaid adverts on Mandy from people who are looking for cameraman, as well as being unpaid, some of them expect you to bring a £3k camera and your car too along with you... Seems a bit of a con, but if you have nothing better to do with your weekend and a passion for film then I guess why not. These are all for short films rather than broadcast TV.

    http://www.grapevinejobs.co.uk/
    TV/Broadcast. You have to pay to advertise on this site, so you won't see any of the free short film type stuff as on Mandy. You'll often see trainee or beginner roles at shopping channels etc advertised on here, these are the ones to apply for. Everyone wants to work for the BBC, whereas here, you have much more chance of getting the job. You'll also see other jobs such as (tape) librarians advertised too.

    https://shootingpeople.org/home
    No idea. I don't work in film. But I've heard of it.

    http://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/
    Print magazine. Go have a browse in WHSmith. I wouldn't buy/subscribe to it, overpriced. Has a few jobs advertised too.


    Good luck........
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