He's not even cold in his grave yet and already this needless derailing. The man was a legend, larger than life with his trash-talking and brilliance. He was not without fault, that goes without saying. But he was a hero to millions of people worldwide beyond the sport. From refusing the draft to refusing to fight in Apartheid South Africa because he was in solidarity with people of colour and unafraid to express his politics on civil rights and so many other things. If you've never grown up in a truly violent apartheid or segregated context, you won't understand some of the radical politics he expressed or you won't even bother to try to understand, judging by some in this thread - and that's a damn shame.
You don't get many sportspeople like him, who transcend their discipline so thoroughly and you really don't get them these days.
''Even if you consider feats of athleticism to be trifling in the grand scheme of things, there is a chance you still find Ali compelling. Because, with Ali, athletic feats were only a part of the whole.
Ali created the mould for the modern athlete and promptly broke it. No athlete has been so great in so many different ways since.''
Not sure if he 'created the mould" etc. He was perhaps one of the first to move into showbusiness though I think some American sportspeople had done already and even in Europe there was the odd one who had.
Notoriety mostly. He refused to go to war in Vietnam. He might have had nothing against 'those 'Cong's' but today it is around the same as saying he had nothing against ISIS.
He was a great boxer but after seeing that infamous rant of his on the Parky show in '81 I saw a side to him that was not at all in line with the 'humanitarian' role he's being credited with right now. He espoused Islamic domination, trashed white culture and white people, viciously attacked Parky over a hypothetical question regarding what kind of clothing Parky would allow his wife Mary to wear on a beach - for some reason that particular part of the interview (about Parky's wife) has been edited out of the clips of this interview on You Tube.
My late dad had been a long time boxing fan and admired Ali but that night we watched that interview in '81 Dad said Ali had some dangerous ideas that would not be tolerated from a white man. He was right too.
No doubt though that Ali was a significant sportsman during his time. Joe Louis however would have cleaned the floor with him. And even Ali called him The Greatest.
I thought I remember him saying some unpleasant things in at least one interview but had not remembered seeing them again in recent years, that explains it.
He's not even cold in his grave yet and already this needless derailing. The man was a legend, larger than life with his trash-talking and brilliance. He was not without fault, that goes without saying. But he was a hero to millions of people worldwide beyond the sport. From refusing the draft to refusing to fight in Apartheid South Africa because he was in solidarity with people of colour and unafraid to express his politics on civil rights and so many other things. If you've never grown up in a truly violent apartheid or segregated context, you won't understand some of the radical politics he expressed or you won't even bother to try to understand, judging by some in this thread - and that's a damn shame.
You don't get many sportspeople like him, who transcend their discipline so thoroughly and you really don't get them these days.
May he rest in peace.
I always notice at which post number the negativity starts.
It was post twelve.
A memorial service in his hometown is taking place this afternoon and the tributes on Radio4 to Muhammed Ali have been very respectful and heartfelt.
I wouldn't liken it to fighting ISIS one bit lol but that's a different subject. The thing is Ali took a stance and that was a very brave thing to do. He gave up the heavyweight championship and risked possible prison time in favour of sticking to his religious beliefs. he was even told it would be a token gesture "going to war" and he would just be putting on a show for morale but he stuck to his priciples. It was all corrupt and he was later vindicated when all said and done. What the government did to him was pretty disgusting when you do a bit of research. They drafted him well above the normal age anyway and picked on him simply because he was a big public figure who became a Muslim. They stripped him of his title and a way of making a living for not being a yes man. whether you think he should have gone or not, what they did was wrong.
Ali wasn't perfect, he was easily lead by the Muslin community and fell in line with some of their racial ideas. Malcolm X wanted Ali to leave with him just before he was assassinated but they got their claws into Ali. He was just saying what he was taught, some of it made sense and you could see where he was coming from with the segregation stuff but a lot of it was dated to say the least. He did say that a lot of his views changed in recent times but he was a product of his time. You look back at some of those interviews and will be horrified by what he says but that was the climate, a lot of black people felt persecuted by the white community. He would say white people are devils but had white friends, his trainer was white. So I don't think he was racist at all, but just parroting what his mentors taught.
Ali would have boxed rings round flat footed Louis
How many times have we seen white people being accused of being racist even though they have black friends?
I was born in 1960 and - to my shame - probably spent the first 10 years of my life thinking black people were in some way second class citizens. I was a kid and just learnt my views from others. When I was old enough to really listen to Ali in the early 70s I realised that black people could be just as intelligent, articulate, funny, courageous, and outspoken as white people. For me it was a huge light bulb moment. I don't think I'm a one off - that's what he achieved for many people outside of the ring.
Bib why should he have enlisted when he was considered an inferior being in his own country due to the colour of his skin.. to claim he was racist is laughable. He grew up under segregation ffs.
Also Vietnam war was as much a farce as the Iraq war was 40 plus years later ie completely illegal.
There are virtually no similarities between the Vietnam war and Iraq. The Americans were asked to go to the support of South Vietnam which was under attack from North Vietnam (with North Vietnam being assisted by the Soviets and China I think).
I absolutely hate boxing but that does nothing to take away from Ali's achievements as a sporting icon and a legend who might not have always got it right but was brave enough to stand up and be counted iat a time when many in his own country considers him second class purely because of the colour of his skin.
The fact that this poor black boy became such an iconic figure in a society that looked down on 'his type' shows how charismatic and legendary he was.
A beautiful man inside and out sadly cut down by a wicked illness but who was still brave and fighting to the very end
I always felt the Ali we knew died a long time ago and it wouldn't feel like much when he actually went but I was wrong there. Time really ravaged Ali, from what he was to what he became in later life is jarring, almost difficult to comprehend. How does that kind of vitality become so old and ill. The realties of life stink, even Ali couldn't beat that.
Four years ago, I was privileged to be in the crowd at the opening ceremony of the London Olympics.
Towards the end, a number of leading world figures carried the Olympic flag into and around the stadium; when they reached the flagpole, they stopped, and then a figure stepped out from the darkness and grasped the edge of the flag himself.
When the spotlight picked him out, I could not stop the words coming out of my mouth: "that's Muhammad Ali!".
The roar that reverberated around the stadium at that point was bigger than that which greeted anything else that happened that night.
The moment was full of poignancy, particularly for me when I saw his wife standing by his side and telling him over and over again "wave Muhammad, wave Muhammad, wave to the crowd Muhammad."
Sadly, he wasn't able to do so.
Still, I and everyone else who was there that night can say that we were in the same place at the same time as the greatest sportsman who ever lived.
Four years ago, I was privileged to be in the crowd at the opening ceremony of the London Olympics.
Towards the end, a number of leading world figures carried the Olympic flag into and around the stadium; when they reached the flagpole, they stopped, and then a figure stepped out from the darkness and grasped the edge of the flag himself.
When the spotlight picked him out, I could not stop the words coming out of my mouth: "that's Muhammad Ali!".
The roar that reverberated around the stadium at that point was bigger than that which greeted anything else that happened that night.
The moment was full of poignancy, particularly for me when I saw his wife standing by his side and telling him over and over again "wave Muhammad, wave Muhammad, wave to the crowd Muhammad."
Sadly, he wasn't able to do so.
Still, I and everyone else who was there that night can say that we were in the same place at the same time as the greatest sportsman who ever lived.
This is weird, I was only just reading on the net the other day about Ali being hospitalised, and they said he wasn't serious, so I googled his age and thought, "74 he's still young yet, he's got another 10 years in him", andthen he's gone RIP, what a man!
This is weird, I was only just reading on the net the other day about Ali being hospitalised, and they said he wasn't serious, so I googled his age and thought, "74 he's still young yet, he's got another 10 years in him", andthen he's gone RIP, what a man!
He been very ill in recent years though. I thought his last public appearance was pretty upsetting, he could barely walk and looked like he was nearing the end, think it was his great rival Joe Frazier's funeral. Its amazing he has lasted this long really, must be no picnic having parkinsons for 30 years, slowly eating away at you.
My family and I 'met' him when I was a kid, can't remember the occasion but it was a special event at the main sports stadium in Lagos. He was invited as special guest of honour and there was a massive line-up/procession to meet & greet him and I remember my mum almost fainting after she go to touch him, I think even shaking his hand.:D .Very good looking guy back in the day - very tall. RIP.
My family and I 'met' him when I was a kid, can't remember the occasion but it was a special event at the main sports stadium in Lagos. He was invited as special guest of honour and there was a massive line-up/procession to meet & greet him and I remember my mum almost fainting after she go to touch him, I think even shaking his hand.:D .Very good looking guy back in the day - very tall. RIP.
Comments
You don't get many sportspeople like him, who transcend their discipline so thoroughly and you really don't get them these days.
May he rest in peace.
Not sure if he 'created the mould" etc. He was perhaps one of the first to move into showbusiness though I think some American sportspeople had done already and even in Europe there was the odd one who had.
I suppose he was just a natural self-publicist.
I thought I remember him saying some unpleasant things in at least one interview but had not remembered seeing them again in recent years, that explains it.
I always notice at which post number the negativity starts.
It was post twelve.
A memorial service in his hometown is taking place this afternoon and the tributes on Radio4 to Muhammed Ali have been very respectful and heartfelt.
How many times have we seen white people being accused of being racist even though they have black friends?
That really touched me. Thank you for posting it.
RIP the Greatest.
Start another thread on poor little white people topic rather than derailing this thread then
There are virtually no similarities between the Vietnam war and Iraq. The Americans were asked to go to the support of South Vietnam which was under attack from North Vietnam (with North Vietnam being assisted by the Soviets and China I think).
The fact that this poor black boy became such an iconic figure in a society that looked down on 'his type' shows how charismatic and legendary he was.
A beautiful man inside and out sadly cut down by a wicked illness but who was still brave and fighting to the very end
No more heroes.
RIP.
Towards the end, a number of leading world figures carried the Olympic flag into and around the stadium; when they reached the flagpole, they stopped, and then a figure stepped out from the darkness and grasped the edge of the flag himself.
When the spotlight picked him out, I could not stop the words coming out of my mouth: "that's Muhammad Ali!".
The roar that reverberated around the stadium at that point was bigger than that which greeted anything else that happened that night.
The moment was full of poignancy, particularly for me when I saw his wife standing by his side and telling him over and over again "wave Muhammad, wave Muhammad, wave to the crowd Muhammad."
Sadly, he wasn't able to do so.
Still, I and everyone else who was there that night can say that we were in the same place at the same time as the greatest sportsman who ever lived.
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Amazing anecdote..:)
He been very ill in recent years though. I thought his last public appearance was pretty upsetting, he could barely walk and looked like he was nearing the end, think it was his great rival Joe Frazier's funeral. Its amazing he has lasted this long really, must be no picnic having parkinsons for 30 years, slowly eating away at you.
He was the greatest, an absolute legend, condolences to all family and friends.
Any news on TV scheduling today? I feel the need for When We Were Kings.
( and Thrilla in Manilla if you want the dark side of the Force)
I was just responding to someone who tried to justify his behaviour with Parkinson.
Absolutely gorgeous *swoon*
http://boxrec.com/media/images/thumb/f/f2/AliRed.jpg/300px-AliRed.jpg
RIP
Absolutely right.
I know nothing about boxing, never even watched a fight - but I certainly now about Ali.
RIP, champ.