If I were diabetic and given the wrong way to eat I would be so angry. Why on earth did they change it Its got to be to keep people sick >:(
Thank you for that link. It's got some interesting recipes in it and I'll be trying some of them very soon.
You're right about the anger - I couldn't believe my GPs reaction when I told him I was going for the low-carb option because the diet sheet he gave me said my diet should be built around complex carbs. He seemed to take it as a personal insult when I said I'd rather adapt my diet than take ever-increasing lists of medication. The official line is that Type 2 diabetes is progressive and pancreatic function inevitably deteriorates. Mine has started to recover and is coping well on the days I allow myself a slightly higher-carb treat (but I only do that about once a month and it's a small amount - like pinching 2 or 3 of my husband's chips).
There's no guarantee I won't find my pancreas deteriorating again in the future and I may have to return to medication but even then I'd rather stay with low carbs and the minimum of tablets. If the very worst scenario happens and I get nasty complications, I've given myself a longer period without them than if I'd followed the official NHS line.
I meet people every day who say they're happy to let their doctor stay in charge of their diabetes because 'he's a doctor and knows best'. Scary!!
Thank you for that link. It's got some interesting recipes in it and I'll be trying some of them very soon.
You're right about the anger - I couldn't believe my GPs reaction when I told him I was going for the low-carb option because the diet sheet he gave me said my diet should be built around complex carbs. He seemed to take it as a personal insult when I said I'd rather adapt my diet than take ever-increasing lists of medication. The official line is that Type 2 diabetes is progressive and pancreatic function inevitably deteriorates. Mine has started to recover and is coping well on the days I allow myself a slightly higher-carb treat (but I only do that about once a month and it's a small amount - like pinching 2 or 3 of my husband's chips).
There's no guarantee I won't find my pancreas deteriorating again in the future and I may have to return to medication but even then I'd rather stay with low carbs and the minimum of tablets. If the very worst scenario happens and I get nasty complications, I've given myself a longer period without them than if I'd followed the official NHS line.
I meet people every day who say they're happy to let their doctor stay in charge of their diabetes because 'he's a doctor and knows best'. Scary!!
I get that all the time when I say how my diseases were reversed and all symptoms now gone.. I have gone from a whole carrier bag of meds to none!
I'm told to go peddle my snake oil cures. elsewhere as I was either not ill or misdiagnosed :(
Its not like its that hard to try it.. it dosnt cost much if you eat clean, what will people lose by trying it? Sometimes people can be scared of being well again.
If I were diabetic and given the wrong way to eat I would be so angry. Why on earth did they change it Its got to be to keep people sick >:(
My connection is slow at the moment so I can't read the link, but wow! 1917 was even before Banting and Best's first patient. Back then it was just about delaying the inevitable as type 1s would die rather quickly and type 2s didn't have much in the way of treatment.
As far as why advice changed, I'd say is that if we're talking about type 1s then you have to consider that insulin in the early days, or even when I was diagnosed 33 years ago, meant that you had to eat carbs to feed the insulin peaks. Now there's more freedom, so it's possible to do it the other way around and decide what you want to eat and calculate a much more precise, fast acting insulin dose. I'd also say that if we're talking about children who've just been diagnosed, then different rules apply. Trying to maintain a bit of normalcy is kind of important and a radical diet overhaul on top of testing and injections is a lot to ask.
But yeah, even 100 years ago they knew the score where carbs were concerned. Good find.
I get that all the time when I say how my diseases were reversed and all symptoms now gone.. I have gone from a whole carrier bag of meds to none!
I'm told to go peddle my snake oil cures. elsewhere as I was either not ill or misdiagnosed :(
Its not like its that hard to try it.. it dosnt cost much if you eat clean, what will people lose by trying it? Sometimes people can be scared of being well again.
I'm not sure people are scared of being well they just don't like change. Also the idea your doctor may be wrong on this one means they may not be right about other things and to many of us that is very scary as we need to trust them.
I'm not sure people are scared of being well they just don't like change. Also the idea your doctor may be wrong on this one means they may not be right about other things and to many of us that is very scary as we need to trust them.
I was reading about being scared after I posted that.. It does say that it can and does happen because they have to face living again after years of having a excuse not to live, but also what you said about change so I expect its the same thing really.
All Drs seem to do is give you things to cover up the symptoms but never try to get down the what the cause might be. I was on some pretty strong meds for gastric issues, when I told my rheumatologist I no longer take them as I no longer get any problems, he told me to keep taking them anyway
These are strong pills and give you bad side affects and damage when taken long term.
They are also very expensive pills and that brings us back to pharmaceutical companies not wanting people to get better.
I know it sounds all conspirational but I cant think of any other reason why so many people are now ill and even though they do everything they are told to do, they do not ever get better, just worse.
I was reading about being scared after I posted that.. It does say that it can and does happen because they have to face living again after years of having a excuse not to live, but also what you said about change so I expect its the same thing really.
All Drs seem to do is give you things to cover up the symptoms but never try to get down the what the cause might be. I was on some pretty strong meds for gastric issues, when I told my rheumatologist I no longer take them as I no longer get any problems, he told me to keep taking them anyway
These are strong pills and give you bad side affects and damage when taken long term.
They are also very expensive pills and that brings us back to pharmaceutical companies not wanting people to get better.
I know it sounds all conspirational but I cant think of any other reason why so many people are now ill and even though they do everything they are told to do, they do not ever get better, just worse.
That's the problem when anyone talks about this it does sound like one of the worst conspiracy theories going, but unless anyone has a better idea to put forward I really cannot see any other way of looking at it all.
That's the problem when anyone talks about this it does sound like one of the worst conspiracy theories going, but unless anyone has a better idea to put forward I really cannot see any other way of looking at it all.
When you look at how many processed foods rely mainly on some form of grain or sugar, it's not surprising to see how many servings of "carbs" we're told is 'healthy' for an average person, and equally unsurprising is the notion that the big food conglomerates and manufacturers sit on the boards/panels that determine what information gets passed down regarding recommended daily allowances, and in turn what our doctors advise us to eat. It's easy to think that it's a conspiracy theory and that people are being paranoid, but I think the evidence is hard to ignore. Throw on top of that the amount of money these big companies are able to spend on advertising their crap to us and our kids, it's not exactly shocking to see why so many people get it wrong. I'd love to be able to say that I trust my doctor/nurse, but until something changes, I'll stick to what I think is best regarding nutrition. The recent 'Change 4 Life' program for example, has some good ideas but it's still trotting out the low-fat advice. I would applaud them for their attempt at getting people to cut back on sugar if not for their 'healthy swap' campaign which tells people that drinking diet soda is a healthy swap. I despair. Oh, and guess who sponsors Change 4 Life? Pepsi and Nestle. So under the guise of dispensing advice for our health, the NHS is plugging a program with dubious sponsorship. I was blocked from their facebook page for questioning their motives.
It is sounding a bit like a paranoid dystopia in here. I'm not the least bit convinced that there is a massive worldwide conspiracy to keep people sick. The problem with the 'big pharma' type conspiracies is that they all disregard the role of the individuals and the complicated relationships between them. They treat all the diverse public and private actors as one monolithic entity, with the same interests and the same sinister goal, to crush you. It's just too much to swallow. The people who make up the NHS and Eli Lily, et al, no doubt have an interest in maintaining their organisations' bottom line, and they are certainly not beyond criticism, but they get sick too. So do their loved ones. They have just as much interest in wellness as anyone else.
I think a lot of healthcare workers are entrenched in a narrow way of thinking, but at the same time eating low carb, high fat, is not an imperative for everyone in order to lead a healthy life either. It is just one way. Earlier I pointed out earlier that even the American Diabetes Association are now on board with low carb, but change takes time.
My thinking is that for every Inuit living well off whale blubber and raw offal, there's a Kitava village thriving on yam, sweet potato, taro and tapioca. Humans seem to be quite adaptable. In the west, our diet related problems seem to come from an excess of calories coupled with a more sedentary lifestyle. The solution depends on the individual.
I just feel that between big pharmaceutical and food companies we are being made ill.
So many diseases on the rise.. Alzheimers Autoimmune diseases, diabetes.. cancers.
Just seems very strange to me that all of these (and more) are either stopped in their tracks or reversed by going lowcarb ( with higher fat) and grain free.
Then you look into Wheat belly and Grain brain and you think Ermm I dont want to believe this but it does all make sense.
I have had 9 members of my family die young in the last few years, all but one were very diet and health orientated. That is what made me look into things.. little knowing that on my travels I would heal myself of things I didn't even know were caused by the grain of today. I was looking into cancers not autoimmune diseases.
I think it could be somewhere in between what you both say, we are offered cheap carp foods laden in stuff that isn't good for most of us, we don't want to spend time or money finding what really makes us feel better.
It's complicated by sugar and carbs tasting so damned good and a society where we want or need that to make us feel better. I think heavy drinking and gambling are another side of that. We have a sick society and need to address that but we need manufacturers to face it too and help us instead of feeding our addictions.
They do a bit by making sweet and carb heavy foods so cheap I am sure it's not a conspiracy but until they make fruit and veg and decent proteins cheaper than bread and cakes that is the effect they are having on the legions of poorer shoppers.
I have been successful so far with my low carb eating but it is more expensive than what I used to buy each week by a good third.
It isn't just cheaper either it's more convenient, get home after work 9pm a sandwich takes seconds thinking about making a salad with protein takes more time when I least want to be in the kitchen.
It's all mixed up and complicated a series of coincidences all put together to make us as we are now a rather sick society.
But we are the ones who ultimately decide what goes into our mouthes. I've been doing it my entire life. I've eaten carbs, I've not eaten carbs, but I've always been mindful, and I've always taken responsibility for myself.
Regarding the link to the statins and the side effects... ALL drugs have side effects. All of them... even the placebos, notably the placebo for the statins, where subjects reported the same side effects for the sugar pills and the actual drug. Insulin lispro has a pretty nasty side effect that could cause seizures, coma or death. The trick is for the individual to decide if the benefit of the drug outweighs the risk.
It's perfectly possible to disagree with a certain policy without jumping to the conclusion "they" are out to get you.
But we are the ones who ultimately decide what goes into our mouthes. I've been doing it my entire life. I've eaten carbs, I've not eaten carbs, but I've always been mindful, and I've always taken responsibility for myself.
Regarding the link to the statins and the side effects... ALL drugs have side effects. All of them... even the placebos, notably the placebo for the statins, where subjects reported the same side effects for the sugar pills and the actual drug. Insulin lispro has a pretty nasty side effect that could cause seizures, coma or death. The trick is for the individual to decide if the benefit of the drug outweighs the risk.
It's perfectly possible to disagree with a certain policy without jumping to the conclusion "they" are out to get you.
True but as I said it's hard not to eat what is cheapest when you are on a limited budget, while we have 24 bread rolls for £1.24 and carrots for 80p a kg we will always have people forced to make the choice by price rather than what is good for them.
I can appreciate that molliepops. It's frustrating when junk food is cheaper than real food, and I honestly don't know what the solution is. It's simply the conspiracy theories that I have contempt for.
But the third site in the link was this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Big_Pharma which does a pretty good job highlighting some genuine reasons to criticise pharmaceutical companies, but stops well short of conspiracy-mongering, because it is so utterly irrational.
I think you have me mixed up with someone else. Cant ever remember posting a link to Mecola? Can you show me the post as I dont like that man as he seems to flip flop a lot. I could not have looked at the name before posting the link
I have only ever said that very lowcarb diets that are also grain free can cure or help many things. Its true that it can help all those things. Its true that our food has been messed around with and since then diseases that were once rare are now common.
Now I dont know for sure that its not deliberate but then neither do you.
I know for a fact its cured me and that Drs are still trying to make me take many different strong pills for things I no longer have.
I am now very wary and hope others do not follow Drs advice blindly.
But there's a reason personal anecdotes aren't used as scientific evidence. They are prone to so many cognitive biases like overestimation of prevalence, Post hoc ergo propter hoc, being persuaded by emotionally charged testimonials...
Have you ever heard of the Buteyko breathing technique? Buteyko was a Russian doctor who “discovered” that voluntarily slowing one’s breathing could "cure" asthma. Over the years he came to realise that slow breathing could cure all sorts of disorders – it seemed to work for everything as he believed that humans had evolved to chronically hyperventilate. The point being, if you are basing your claims on anecdotal experience, then any treatment will seem to work for anything and everything.
Re Mercola, you posted this link, that linked to all sorts of websites including his. A couple of the links disagreed with your theory, but I assumed we were meant to take on board the sites that agreed there is in fact a massive conspiracy: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=big+pharmaceutical+companies++want+us+to+be+ill%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=ghBRU8ugBIjR8gfZwoCAAg It also includes NaturalNews whose cranks believe vaccines contain secret cancer causing agents derived from monkeys. They too believe pharmaceutical companies actively plot to make us ill along with the government. They also promote chemtrail paranoia. There's also a link to 'unfictional.com' who think the Swine Flu vaccine is a bio weapon, and another site that says antibiotics cause mental illness.
The science behind Wheat Belly has been fairly thoroughly picked apart. Davis has even said that he can't prove that there is a causative relationship between wheat and all these aliments, yet he's laughing all the way to the bank.
I'm not saying I agree that wheat causes those things, although by choice I don't eat it myself but I'm not sure you'd get funding for a long term clinical study, which is what is needed to prove cause and effect, if your intention was to prove you could you could induce serious or even life threatening conditions in people.
I'm not saying I agree that wheat causes those things, although by choice I don't eat it myself but I'm not sure you'd get funding for a long term clinical study, which is what is needed to prove cause and effect, if your intention was to prove you could you could induce serious or even life threatening conditions in people.
I believe so but that doesn't mean that if a smoker gets cancer then its because they smoked. It may seem the most likely reason but their could be other reasons.
I believe so but that doesn't mean that if a smoker gets cancer then its because they smoked. It may seem the most likely reason but their could be other reasons.
The evidence that cigarettes are carcinogenic is robust. The evidence for Wheat Belly is flimsy at best.
The evidence that cigarettes are carcinogenic is robust. The evidence for Wheat Belly is flimsy at best.
I haven't checked this but I'm going to guess their are more studies on smoking than their are on wheat consumption so I would expect their to be more evidence.
Comments
Thank you for that link. It's got some interesting recipes in it and I'll be trying some of them very soon.
You're right about the anger - I couldn't believe my GPs reaction when I told him I was going for the low-carb option because the diet sheet he gave me said my diet should be built around complex carbs. He seemed to take it as a personal insult when I said I'd rather adapt my diet than take ever-increasing lists of medication. The official line is that Type 2 diabetes is progressive and pancreatic function inevitably deteriorates. Mine has started to recover and is coping well on the days I allow myself a slightly higher-carb treat (but I only do that about once a month and it's a small amount - like pinching 2 or 3 of my husband's chips).
There's no guarantee I won't find my pancreas deteriorating again in the future and I may have to return to medication but even then I'd rather stay with low carbs and the minimum of tablets. If the very worst scenario happens and I get nasty complications, I've given myself a longer period without them than if I'd followed the official NHS line.
I meet people every day who say they're happy to let their doctor stay in charge of their diabetes because 'he's a doctor and knows best'. Scary!!
I get that all the time when I say how my diseases were reversed and all symptoms now gone.. I have gone from a whole carrier bag of meds to none!
I'm told to go peddle my snake oil cures. elsewhere as I was either not ill or misdiagnosed
Its not like its that hard to try it.. it dosnt cost much if you eat clean, what will people lose by trying it? Sometimes people can be scared of being well again.
My connection is slow at the moment so I can't read the link, but wow! 1917 was even before Banting and Best's first patient. Back then it was just about delaying the inevitable as type 1s would die rather quickly and type 2s didn't have much in the way of treatment.
As far as why advice changed, I'd say is that if we're talking about type 1s then you have to consider that insulin in the early days, or even when I was diagnosed 33 years ago, meant that you had to eat carbs to feed the insulin peaks. Now there's more freedom, so it's possible to do it the other way around and decide what you want to eat and calculate a much more precise, fast acting insulin dose. I'd also say that if we're talking about children who've just been diagnosed, then different rules apply. Trying to maintain a bit of normalcy is kind of important and a radical diet overhaul on top of testing and injections is a lot to ask.
But yeah, even 100 years ago they knew the score where carbs were concerned. Good find.
I'm not sure people are scared of being well they just don't like change. Also the idea your doctor may be wrong on this one means they may not be right about other things and to many of us that is very scary as we need to trust them.
I was reading about being scared after I posted that.. It does say that it can and does happen because they have to face living again after years of having a excuse not to live, but also what you said about change so I expect its the same thing really.
All Drs seem to do is give you things to cover up the symptoms but never try to get down the what the cause might be. I was on some pretty strong meds for gastric issues, when I told my rheumatologist I no longer take them as I no longer get any problems, he told me to keep taking them anyway
These are strong pills and give you bad side affects and damage when taken long term.
They are also very expensive pills and that brings us back to pharmaceutical companies not wanting people to get better.
I know it sounds all conspirational but I cant think of any other reason why so many people are now ill and even though they do everything they are told to do, they do not ever get better, just worse.
That's the problem when anyone talks about this it does sound like one of the worst conspiracy theories going, but unless anyone has a better idea to put forward I really cannot see any other way of looking at it all.
When you look at how many processed foods rely mainly on some form of grain or sugar, it's not surprising to see how many servings of "carbs" we're told is 'healthy' for an average person, and equally unsurprising is the notion that the big food conglomerates and manufacturers sit on the boards/panels that determine what information gets passed down regarding recommended daily allowances, and in turn what our doctors advise us to eat. It's easy to think that it's a conspiracy theory and that people are being paranoid, but I think the evidence is hard to ignore. Throw on top of that the amount of money these big companies are able to spend on advertising their crap to us and our kids, it's not exactly shocking to see why so many people get it wrong. I'd love to be able to say that I trust my doctor/nurse, but until something changes, I'll stick to what I think is best regarding nutrition. The recent 'Change 4 Life' program for example, has some good ideas but it's still trotting out the low-fat advice. I would applaud them for their attempt at getting people to cut back on sugar if not for their 'healthy swap' campaign which tells people that drinking diet soda is a healthy swap. I despair. Oh, and guess who sponsors Change 4 Life? Pepsi and Nestle. So under the guise of dispensing advice for our health, the NHS is plugging a program with dubious sponsorship. I was blocked from their facebook page for questioning their motives.
I think a lot of healthcare workers are entrenched in a narrow way of thinking, but at the same time eating low carb, high fat, is not an imperative for everyone in order to lead a healthy life either. It is just one way. Earlier I pointed out earlier that even the American Diabetes Association are now on board with low carb, but change takes time.
My thinking is that for every Inuit living well off whale blubber and raw offal, there's a Kitava village thriving on yam, sweet potato, taro and tapioca. Humans seem to be quite adaptable. In the west, our diet related problems seem to come from an excess of calories coupled with a more sedentary lifestyle. The solution depends on the individual.
So many diseases on the rise.. Alzheimers Autoimmune diseases, diabetes.. cancers.
Just seems very strange to me that all of these (and more) are either stopped in their tracks or reversed by going lowcarb ( with higher fat) and grain free.
Then you look into Wheat belly and Grain brain and you think Ermm I dont want to believe this but it does all make sense.
I have had 9 members of my family die young in the last few years, all but one were very diet and health orientated. That is what made me look into things.. little knowing that on my travels I would heal myself of things I didn't even know were caused by the grain of today. I was looking into cancers not autoimmune diseases.
It's complicated by sugar and carbs tasting so damned good and a society where we want or need that to make us feel better. I think heavy drinking and gambling are another side of that. We have a sick society and need to address that but we need manufacturers to face it too and help us instead of feeding our addictions.
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1946320
FFS.
They do a bit by making sweet and carb heavy foods so cheap I am sure it's not a conspiracy but until they make fruit and veg and decent proteins cheaper than bread and cakes that is the effect they are having on the legions of poorer shoppers.
I have been successful so far with my low carb eating but it is more expensive than what I used to buy each week by a good third.
It isn't just cheaper either it's more convenient, get home after work 9pm a sandwich takes seconds thinking about making a salad with protein takes more time when I least want to be in the kitchen.
It's all mixed up and complicated a series of coincidences all put together to make us as we are now a rather sick society.
Regarding the link to the statins and the side effects... ALL drugs have side effects. All of them... even the placebos, notably the placebo for the statins, where subjects reported the same side effects for the sugar pills and the actual drug. Insulin lispro has a pretty nasty side effect that could cause seizures, coma or death. The trick is for the individual to decide if the benefit of the drug outweighs the risk.
It's perfectly possible to disagree with a certain policy without jumping to the conclusion "they" are out to get you.
True but as I said it's hard not to eat what is cheapest when you are on a limited budget, while we have 24 bread rolls for £1.24 and carrots for 80p a kg we will always have people forced to make the choice by price rather than what is good for them.
Earlier in the thread this link was posted as supposed evidence of a CT: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=big+pharmaceutical+companies++want+us+to+be+ill%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=ghBRU8ugBIjR8gfZwoCAAg which brings up links to sites like supplement peddling Mercola, anti-vaccine and believes many cancers can be cured by bicarbonate of soda and that HIV does not cause AIDS, and NaturalNews whose cranks believe vaccines contain secret cancer causing agents derived from monkeys. They definitely think pharmaceutical companies actively plot to make us ill along with the government. They also promote chemtrail paranoia.
But the third site in the link was this: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Big_Pharma which does a pretty good job highlighting some genuine reasons to criticise pharmaceutical companies, but stops well short of conspiracy-mongering, because it is so utterly irrational.
But there's a reason personal anecdotes aren't used as scientific evidence. They are prone to so many cognitive biases like overestimation of prevalence, Post hoc ergo propter hoc, being persuaded by emotionally charged testimonials...
Have you ever heard of the Buteyko breathing technique? Buteyko was a Russian doctor who “discovered” that voluntarily slowing one’s breathing could "cure" asthma. Over the years he came to realise that slow breathing could cure all sorts of disorders – it seemed to work for everything as he believed that humans had evolved to chronically hyperventilate. The point being, if you are basing your claims on anecdotal experience, then any treatment will seem to work for anything and everything.
Re Mercola, you posted this link, that linked to all sorts of websites including his. A couple of the links disagreed with your theory, but I assumed we were meant to take on board the sites that agreed there is in fact a massive conspiracy: https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=big+pharmaceutical+companies++want+us+to+be+ill%3F&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb&gfe_rd=cr&ei=ghBRU8ugBIjR8gfZwoCAAg It also includes NaturalNews whose cranks believe vaccines contain secret cancer causing agents derived from monkeys. They too believe pharmaceutical companies actively plot to make us ill along with the government. They also promote chemtrail paranoia. There's also a link to 'unfictional.com' who think the Swine Flu vaccine is a bio weapon, and another site that says antibiotics cause mental illness.
The science behind Wheat Belly has been fairly thoroughly picked apart. Davis has even said that he can't prove that there is a causative relationship between wheat and all these aliments, yet he's laughing all the way to the bank. http://www.aaccnet.org/publications/plexus/cfw/pastissues/2012/OpenDocuments/CFW-57-4-0177.pdf
http://blogs.nejm.org/now/index.php/predictors-of-weight-gain/2011/06/24/
http://www.weightymatters.ca/2013/02/diet-book-review-wheat-belly.html
I'm not saying I agree that wheat causes those things, although by choice I don't eat it myself but I'm not sure you'd get funding for a long term clinical study, which is what is needed to prove cause and effect, if your intention was to prove you could you could induce serious or even life threatening conditions in people.
Are cigarettes carcinogenic?
I believe so but that doesn't mean that if a smoker gets cancer then its because they smoked. It may seem the most likely reason but their could be other reasons.
The evidence that cigarettes are carcinogenic is robust. The evidence for Wheat Belly is flimsy at best.
I haven't checked this but I'm going to guess their are more studies on smoking than their are on wheat consumption so I would expect their to be more evidence.