The very worse thing Ed could have done a few weeks ago was announce that we've got loads of money to spend.
Though it will prove wrong those doubters who always said we haven't got a pot to piss in.
Probably wasn't his smartest move looking back now, he probably should of just kept his mouth shut and proved we had money to spend by bringing in quality players and splashing the Cash. Woodward though was probably damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, if Woodward would of said in the interview with MUTV that we have no money to spend on transfers we would of all gone mad about the way the club is run and our lack of ambition etc, but by saying we have money it puts fee's up and when we do buy quality players like Di Maria should it go through people are moaning we are paying too much. Woodward can't win.
I think we should put out a near full strength team for the League Cup game against MK Dons, lets be honest the League Cup along with the FA Cup are probably our best chances of winning silverware this season and we have less games anyway this season due to not been in Europe so tiredness shouldn't come into it. We need to get our season up and running and a win is a win even if it is against MK Dons in the Cup.
Yeah, I'd go with a strong lineup in the formation that we're trying to embrace, any practice is useful.
Probably wasn't his smartest move looking back now, he probably should of just kept his mouth shut and proved we had money to spend by bringing in quality players and splashing the Cash. Woodward though was probably damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, if Woodward would of said in the interview with MUTV that we have no money to spend on transfers we would of all gone mad about the way the club is run and our lack of ambition etc, but by saying we have money it puts fee's up and when we do buy quality players like Di Maria should it go through people are moaning we are paying too much. Woodward can't win.
Because of the Mata transfer, I have backed Ed this season, but on this point, I disagree. It wasn't a no-win situation. At his professional level, Woodward should have been mature enough to resist boasting (or appeasing the fans perhaps) about our transfer kitty. Something along the lines of "we are looking at high quality targets that will improve Manchester United and we will pay what we think is the appropriate amount for them" would have sent the right messages out to fans, players, selling clubs and their agents.
Even if that did cause some fan backlash, Ed should have been confident enough to know that doing the deal is what matters. Look at all the commercial deals he's wrangled without mouthing off. I understand the pressure he's under. Transfer-wise, the buck can't get passed on when it's handed to him. But going forward he's got to learn from this.
So looking ahead to the MK Dons match, could we see LvG protecting our seemingly only fit centre-back's, (Keane, Blackett and Jones), by resting them for the more important league game that follows it?
If so, could that mean a game perhaps for Thorpe or McNair?
Can't see that happening, at least I would hope not, I sort of see what you meant, but playing the reserves really isn't the answer, in my opinion. Especially now, given the team really need to get a win, even if it's only MK Dons, they should be respected. Burnley obviously is the priority, and players could always get injured, but sometimes you take the risk, especially when the reward is there. Losing against MK Dons is unthinkable, the team need to be up for the game, and using that game to play completely untested players isn't the answer, just my opinion.
United need some momentum right now, so I'd prefer as full a strength a team as possible. Not everyone obviously, maybe give Chicharito a game, Anderson, Kagawa etc.. the defence is light right now, but there's no reason why all three can't play, or maybe start M. Keane in place of one of them, but not just promote people for the sake of it. With respect I've never even heard of McNair, anyone else Thorpe I think has played for the England u21s? they weren't involved with the tour, it wouldn't surprise me if they haven't worked with the first team at all this season, why would they?
Neither of those players mentioned really shouldnt be anyone near the first team picture just yet at a club the size of Manchester United, for those reasons, and more, I'd be amazed if random reserves are plucked to play in that game, I at least hope not. LVG will be looking at his first team squad, as decent as Blackett has been, the reserves are only in the squad now because it's been decimated by injuries.
The team really needs to push on now, MK Dons provides a good way of doing so, rest some players by all means, but I wouldn't like to see wholesale changes and largely untested players relied on, the carling cup (or whatever it's called now) is a realistic target.
Me too, Cleverley really doesn't warrant a place in the first team or even on the bench, id rather play my dad in midfield, he is 66, and has a bad leg, he couldn't play any worse then him
I'm sure Joey Boswell Senior would do a sound job for us in midfield :cool:. He could be our new Roy Keane .
I'm probably making the league cup out to be more important than it is, but another poster made a good point, there's no European football this season, less games. Manchester United shouldn't be looking to rest the whole defence for instance, after two league games, just my opinion though..
Exactly what I meant about people not being allowed opinion.
Its not about Bats not being allowed opinion its that 19 year olds might look fine in a u21 game but aren't first team players. We'd have to be absolutely on our arses with injuries to use a player that in all honesty 99% of posters have never even heard of. Bats has a fondness for musing if xxx 18 year old will get their dream chance in the first team this season and the answer is always "no"
It's up to him what he posts. And I have heard of Patrick McNair he is a decent young midfield player who has switched to Centre Half. Were any of you saying the same about the class of 92 all those years ago? What about Adnan Januzaj?
It's up to him what he posts. And I have heard of Patrick McNair he is a decent young midfield player who has switched to Centre Half. Were any of you saying the same about the class of 92 all those years ago? What about Adnan Januzaj?
I've just put his name into Utd's website and could come up with what you know about him. The class of 92 was 22 years ago with no MUTV so yes most people thought exactly the same. I take it you watched McNair a lot then. Is he good enough to play in first team?
The best way to gain first team experience is by playing it really is that simple. To answer your question the best way to find out is to play him. If we were to adopt the philosophy of never giving youth a chance we would become exactly like the Berties.
The best way to gain first team experience is by playing it really is that simple. To answer your question the best way to find out is to play him. If we were to adopt the philosophy of never giving youth a chance we would become exactly like the Berties.
They need to get their chances in cup games though not straight into a PL. That's too big a jump.
So is McNair good enough to fill a gap while we've got injuries?
This team will never improve with the likes of Fletcher, Cleverley, Young and Valencia in the midfield.
It's actually a bit scary that LVG seems to like them.
The thought of Cleverley rumoured to be getting a new contract is beyond scary, it's terrifying.
We desperately need some more players in this last week. Di Maria is a brilliant addition, but in amongst that crap even he'll suffer.
And why the hell did LVG make Fletcher vice captain? He shouldn't even be playing for United's first team anymore. But then, neither should Cleverley, Young or Valencia.
So depressing.
SSN showed the players booked for diving since August 2008, after Young's latest effort yesterday.
He and Januzaj are on 3, so is Torres.
Bale way ahead on 7. Funny, I didn't hear much about his persistent diving when he was sold.
But you do name drop youth team-players especially at the moment, most people have not heard of the young lads, I really don't think Van Gaal will ply the defence with them against MK Dons - as we need to get a win on the board even in a Cup Match.
He is not going to pack the defence with them.
The reason why I have mentioned a few youth team players recently, is because of the amount of injuries we are currently experiencing, isn't it nine at the last count, or something like that?
And when for example, we are down to what we saw as our central midfield yesterday, and with only of the first team players left being Anderson, then that is why I mentioned Rothwell (I could also have added Pearson), as they would bring more to the side then Anderson would currently.
So it might be a bit because of their form in the under 21's, (and yes, I am aware of the giant/huge/enormous leap from that level to the first team), but mostly I am only suggesting possible names, due to our current injury situation.
I understand the desire and need to win against MK, and I really do hope that we do win, and "lay down a marker", but really with the way we have started in the league, the Burnley game is now really the all important game, so we need as many of our first team fit for that game, and if that means sparing our our fit centre-back's, then so be it.
Of course I would love to win both the MK and the Burnley games, but if one had to be sacrificed, then it would have to be the MK one.
At the rate we are losing centre-back's, we just cannot take risks with them, yes Rojo hopefully will get his work-permit in time so that he can play v Burnley, but is it really worth the risk playing the others?
That is all I am saying, I am not just saying names for names sake, I am just trying to look at our current situation, and see what is best for us, with what we currently have got.
Turf Moor is always a tricky place to go, Burnley will be well up for it.
I still have bad memories of our last trip there, and Carrick's missed penalty.
Make no bones about it, we will need all of our players to be on song, and at their best, if we are to go there and get our first win of the season.
Can't see that happening, at least I would hope not, I sort of see what you meant, but playing the reserves really isn't the answer, in my opinion. Especially now, given the team really need to get a win, even if it's only MK Dons, they should be respected. Burnley obviously is the priority, and players could always get injured, but sometimes you take the risk, especially when the reward is there. Losing against MK Dons is unthinkable, the team need to be up for the game, and using that game to play completely untested players isn't the answer, just my opinion.
United need some momentum right now, so I'd prefer as full a strength a team as possible. Not everyone obviously, maybe give Chicharito a game, Anderson, Kagawa etc.. the defence is light right now, but there's no reason why all three can't play, or maybe start M. Keane in place of one of them, but not just promote people for the sake of it. With respect I've never even heard of McNair, anyone else Thorpe I think has played for the England u21s? they weren't involved with the tour, it wouldn't surprise me if they haven't worked with the first team at all this season, why would they?
Neither of those players mentioned really shouldnt be anyone near the first team picture just yet at a club the size of Manchester United, for those reasons, and more, I'd be amazed if random reserves are plucked to play in that game, I at least hope not. LVG will be looking at his first team squad, as decent as Blackett has been, the reserves are only in the squad now because it's been decimated by injuries.
The team really needs to push on now, MK Dons provides a good way of doing so, rest some players by all means, but I wouldn't like to see wholesale changes and largely untested players relied on, the carling cup (or whatever it's called now) is a realistic target.
I thank you for seeing what I was trying to get across, it is good that you understood what I was trying to say.
I agree with you, in so much as neither McNair or Thorpe should be anywhere near the first team, as they are not ready yet for it I don't think (which might sound a bit contradictory), but it is only due to our injury situation at the back (and Rojo's work-permit issues) that I am even mentioning their names, I wouldn't be doing so otherwise.
Winning both the MK and Burnley games, is what I want, but neither will be easy at all, we saw against Chelsea, that Burnley can raise their game, and they almost got something out of that game, so I am not looking beyond that game for us at the moment, and want us to have the best chance possible of winning that game, and I see that starting with as many fit (and available) first team players as possible.
Yes, we have a bit more flexibility to play people like Anderson, Kagawa, Hernandez in their various positions, but it is at the back, where for the MK match at least, there are not any other choices from the first team squad, so hence why I mentioned the two under 21 players.
It is a tough balancing act, and if we do play the same three at the back in the MK match that ended the match yesterday, then I just hope that they come through unscathed, as the last thing we need is any more injuries in that area of the pitch.
Its not about Bats not being allowed opinion its that 19 year olds might look fine in a u21 game but aren't first team players. We'd have to be absolutely on our arses with injuries to use a player that in all honesty 99% of posters have never even heard of. Bats has a fondness for musing if xxx 18 year old will get their dream chance in the first team this season and the answer is always "no"
It has nothing to do with my thinking player x deserves to get their dream chance in the first team, I am just thinking along the lines if, what is the best way to make sure that we have the best chance possible of beating Burnley, as that is the game that I see as the most important out of our next two games.
They need to get their chances in cup games though not straight into a PL. That's too big a jump.
So is McNair good enough to fill a gap while we've got injuries?
I am unsure if either Thorpe or McNair are good enough, but with Rojo not having a work-permit (as far as I can see or tell) for the MK match, I was just trying to think of other options, which would at least allow our other centre-back's some more time to be fit and having the best chance against Burnley, and given the choice, I would rather see one of McNair or Thorpe play against MK, if it meant resting one of the centre-back's that finished the match yesterday.
I didn't mean for this level of fuss, in all honesty, I was just looking at what other options there were out there, which could help us to win v Burnley, a match which I don't think will be an easy game at all, and so we will need as many fit and available players for it as possible.
I was initially concerned Di Maria's arrival would hinder januzaj's development.
But watching Di Maria highlights from last season, you see how much flexibility he will bring to the team. He can play on the left, right and centre, all effectively. It really will be a great signing.
But the other two we have in midfield have to be better... For Di Maria (or Mata, Rooney RVP) to be effective, we need to get the ball to them much quicker before the opposition have time to set their defence. At the moment we can't really blame our strikers for our woes as they are getting little to no service at all.
Herrera is an improvement in that respect, but the remainder are simply not good enough. The defenders also contribute to that issue as they only seem happy to pass it amongst themselves 30 times before one (usually the least experienced in Blackett) decides to finally pass forward. By that time opposition have every man behind the ball already.
My concern with Di Maria (other than that I do think he's overrated) is that I'm not sure where he fits into the van Gaal system. The only solution I can see is for him to displace Mata, but I don't think this is a wise move - certainly not one worthy of splashing £65m on.
Could we see the new system abandoned in favour of a return to wide play? Di Maria on one side and Januzaj on the other sounds very inviting with all that flair and pace.
On another topic, Fletcher is all but finished. It hurts to admit it, but he's now so ponderous and lacks the sharpness of yesteryear. As Jamesp84 said previously he's shouldn't be anywhere near the side when at full strength. But what is full strength in that central midfield? Carrick and Herrera? I'm not sure these two will make a good combo as there's a distinct lack of combativeness there. We clearly still need a fighter in the middle, and to bring things full circle, that's where the £65m should have been invested. Of course, it still could be, and I'll certainly be hoping for that.
My concern with Di Maria (other than that I do think he's overrated) is that I'm not sure where he fits into the van Gaal system. The only solution I can see is for him to displace Mata, but I don't think this is a wise move - certainly not one worthy of splashing £65m on.
Could we see the new system abandoned in favour of a return to wide play? Di Maria on one side and Januzaj on the other sounds very inviting with all that flair and pace.
On another topic, Fletcher is all but finished. It hurts to admit it, but he's now so ponderous and lacks the sharpness of yesteryear. As Jamesp84 said previously he's shouldn't be anywhere near the side when at full strength. But what is full strength in that central midfield? Carrick and Herrera? I'm not sure these two will make a good combo as there's a distinct lack of combativeness there. We clearly still need a fighter in the middle, and to bring things full circle, that's where the £65m should have been invested. Of course, it still could be, and I'll certainly be hoping for that.
Van Gaal said on the tour that he picked the system because of the players he has. If the options he has available change then I think its fair to say the system will.
My concern with Di Maria (other than that I do think he's overrated) is that I'm not sure where he fits into the van Gaal system. The only solution I can see is for him to displace Mata, but I don't think this is a wise move - certainly not one worthy of splashing £65m on.
Could we see the new system abandoned in favour of a return to wide play? Di Maria on one side and Januzaj on the other sounds very inviting with all that flair and pace.
On another topic, Fletcher is all but finished. It hurts to admit it, but he's now so ponderous and lacks the sharpness of yesteryear. As Jamesp84 said previously he's shouldn't be anywhere near the side when at full strength. But what is full strength in that central midfield? Carrick and Herrera? I'm not sure these two will make a good combo as there's a distinct lack of combativeness there. We clearly still need a fighter in the middle, and to bring things full circle, that's where the £65m should have been invested. Of course, it still could be, and I'll certainly be hoping for that.
At the moment, or until we buy some more players, then yes Carrick and Herrera are our best pairing in the centre of the midfield.
Fletcher is a good person to have off the pitch, so I see his vice-captaincy role, as akin to Robson, who was Club Captain whilst Steve Bruce was team captain, Ribbon didn't play much at the end, but was still a good influence on the squad as a whole.
But Fletcher is just not the sort of player that we should be relying on, but at the moment, until Carrick comes back, he will be in the side, as he is the only one who can even remotely play that combative role in the side.
Comments
Awww. And there's me hoping Trialist A-64583 BC would be playing.
Probably wasn't his smartest move looking back now, he probably should of just kept his mouth shut and proved we had money to spend by bringing in quality players and splashing the Cash. Woodward though was probably damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, if Woodward would of said in the interview with MUTV that we have no money to spend on transfers we would of all gone mad about the way the club is run and our lack of ambition etc, but by saying we have money it puts fee's up and when we do buy quality players like Di Maria should it go through people are moaning we are paying too much. Woodward can't win.
Yeah, I'd go with a strong lineup in the formation that we're trying to embrace, any practice is useful.
They will if Batdude gets his way.
Absolutely. Strongest team only on Tuesday, let's have no messing about with this one.
I honestly think we can pick up our first three points of the League Season next Saturday.
And before anyone says anything, I am not dissing Burnely at-all.
I know they will, but I just think we can get our first win of the season next week.
Because of the Mata transfer, I have backed Ed this season, but on this point, I disagree. It wasn't a no-win situation. At his professional level, Woodward should have been mature enough to resist boasting (or appeasing the fans perhaps) about our transfer kitty. Something along the lines of "we are looking at high quality targets that will improve Manchester United and we will pay what we think is the appropriate amount for them" would have sent the right messages out to fans, players, selling clubs and their agents.
Even if that did cause some fan backlash, Ed should have been confident enough to know that doing the deal is what matters. Look at all the commercial deals he's wrangled without mouthing off. I understand the pressure he's under. Transfer-wise, the buck can't get passed on when it's handed to him. But going forward he's got to learn from this.
Can't see that happening, at least I would hope not, I sort of see what you meant, but playing the reserves really isn't the answer, in my opinion. Especially now, given the team really need to get a win, even if it's only MK Dons, they should be respected. Burnley obviously is the priority, and players could always get injured, but sometimes you take the risk, especially when the reward is there. Losing against MK Dons is unthinkable, the team need to be up for the game, and using that game to play completely untested players isn't the answer, just my opinion.
United need some momentum right now, so I'd prefer as full a strength a team as possible. Not everyone obviously, maybe give Chicharito a game, Anderson, Kagawa etc.. the defence is light right now, but there's no reason why all three can't play, or maybe start M. Keane in place of one of them, but not just promote people for the sake of it. With respect I've never even heard of McNair, anyone else
Neither of those players mentioned really shouldnt be anyone near the first team picture just yet at a club the size of Manchester United, for those reasons, and more, I'd be amazed if random reserves are plucked to play in that game, I at least hope not. LVG will be looking at his first team squad, as decent as Blackett has been, the reserves are only in the squad now because it's been decimated by injuries.
The team really needs to push on now, MK Dons provides a good way of doing so, rest some players by all means, but I wouldn't like to see wholesale changes and largely untested players relied on, the carling cup (or whatever it's called now) is a realistic target.
Exactly what I meant about people not being allowed opinion.
Its not about Bats not being allowed opinion its that 19 year olds might look fine in a u21 game but aren't first team players. We'd have to be absolutely on our arses with injuries to use a player that in all honesty 99% of posters have never even heard of. Bats has a fondness for musing if xxx 18 year old will get their dream chance in the first team this season and the answer is always "no"
I've just put his name into Utd's website and could come up with what you know about him. The class of 92 was 22 years ago with no MUTV so yes most people thought exactly the same. I take it you watched McNair a lot then. Is he good enough to play in first team?
They need to get their chances in cup games though not straight into a PL. That's too big a jump.
So is McNair good enough to fill a gap while we've got injuries?
It's actually a bit scary that LVG seems to like them.
The thought of Cleverley rumoured to be getting a new contract is beyond scary, it's terrifying.
We desperately need some more players in this last week. Di Maria is a brilliant addition, but in amongst that crap even he'll suffer.
And why the hell did LVG make Fletcher vice captain? He shouldn't even be playing for United's first team anymore. But then, neither should Cleverley, Young or Valencia.
So depressing.
SSN showed the players booked for diving since August 2008, after Young's latest effort yesterday.
He and Januzaj are on 3, so is Torres.
Bale way ahead on 7. Funny, I didn't hear much about his persistent diving when he was sold.
Don't get me wrong, none of the 4 who started should be in a United midfield, but there wasn't a lot else he could do with what was available.
Despite being named as vice captain, after yesterday's display Fletcher won't get a look in when we're back to full strength.
The reason why I have mentioned a few youth team players recently, is because of the amount of injuries we are currently experiencing, isn't it nine at the last count, or something like that?
And when for example, we are down to what we saw as our central midfield yesterday, and with only of the first team players left being Anderson, then that is why I mentioned Rothwell (I could also have added Pearson), as they would bring more to the side then Anderson would currently.
So it might be a bit because of their form in the under 21's, (and yes, I am aware of the giant/huge/enormous leap from that level to the first team), but mostly I am only suggesting possible names, due to our current injury situation.
I understand the desire and need to win against MK, and I really do hope that we do win, and "lay down a marker", but really with the way we have started in the league, the Burnley game is now really the all important game, so we need as many of our first team fit for that game, and if that means sparing our our fit centre-back's, then so be it.
Of course I would love to win both the MK and the Burnley games, but if one had to be sacrificed, then it would have to be the MK one.
At the rate we are losing centre-back's, we just cannot take risks with them, yes Rojo hopefully will get his work-permit in time so that he can play v Burnley, but is it really worth the risk playing the others?
That is all I am saying, I am not just saying names for names sake, I am just trying to look at our current situation, and see what is best for us, with what we currently have got.
Yes, because the last trialist that we played (I think it was William Prunier) was such a roaring success.
No I won't.
I still have bad memories of our last trip there, and Carrick's missed penalty.
Make no bones about it, we will need all of our players to be on song, and at their best, if we are to go there and get our first win of the season.
I thank you for seeing what I was trying to get across, it is good that you understood what I was trying to say.
I agree with you, in so much as neither McNair or Thorpe should be anywhere near the first team, as they are not ready yet for it I don't think (which might sound a bit contradictory), but it is only due to our injury situation at the back (and Rojo's work-permit issues) that I am even mentioning their names, I wouldn't be doing so otherwise.
Winning both the MK and Burnley games, is what I want, but neither will be easy at all, we saw against Chelsea, that Burnley can raise their game, and they almost got something out of that game, so I am not looking beyond that game for us at the moment, and want us to have the best chance possible of winning that game, and I see that starting with as many fit (and available) first team players as possible.
Yes, we have a bit more flexibility to play people like Anderson, Kagawa, Hernandez in their various positions, but it is at the back, where for the MK match at least, there are not any other choices from the first team squad, so hence why I mentioned the two under 21 players.
It is a tough balancing act, and if we do play the same three at the back in the MK match that ended the match yesterday, then I just hope that they come through unscathed, as the last thing we need is any more injuries in that area of the pitch.
Why am I not allowed an opinion?
I hopefully have explained my reasons in a bit more detail, so I hope that you can understand my thinking behind what I was trying to say.
It has nothing to do with my thinking player x deserves to get their dream chance in the first team, I am just thinking along the lines if, what is the best way to make sure that we have the best chance possible of beating Burnley, as that is the game that I see as the most important out of our next two games.
I am unsure if either Thorpe or McNair are good enough, but with Rojo not having a work-permit (as far as I can see or tell) for the MK match, I was just trying to think of other options, which would at least allow our other centre-back's some more time to be fit and having the best chance against Burnley, and given the choice, I would rather see one of McNair or Thorpe play against MK, if it meant resting one of the centre-back's that finished the match yesterday.
I didn't mean for this level of fuss, in all honesty, I was just looking at what other options there were out there, which could help us to win v Burnley, a match which I don't think will be an easy game at all, and so we will need as many fit and available players for it as possible.
But watching Di Maria highlights from last season, you see how much flexibility he will bring to the team. He can play on the left, right and centre, all effectively. It really will be a great signing.
But the other two we have in midfield have to be better... For Di Maria (or Mata, Rooney RVP) to be effective, we need to get the ball to them much quicker before the opposition have time to set their defence. At the moment we can't really blame our strikers for our woes as they are getting little to no service at all.
Herrera is an improvement in that respect, but the remainder are simply not good enough. The defenders also contribute to that issue as they only seem happy to pass it amongst themselves 30 times before one (usually the least experienced in Blackett) decides to finally pass forward. By that time opposition have every man behind the ball already.
Sigh.
Could we see the new system abandoned in favour of a return to wide play? Di Maria on one side and Januzaj on the other sounds very inviting with all that flair and pace.
On another topic, Fletcher is all but finished. It hurts to admit it, but he's now so ponderous and lacks the sharpness of yesteryear. As Jamesp84 said previously he's shouldn't be anywhere near the side when at full strength. But what is full strength in that central midfield? Carrick and Herrera? I'm not sure these two will make a good combo as there's a distinct lack of combativeness there. We clearly still need a fighter in the middle, and to bring things full circle, that's where the £65m should have been invested. Of course, it still could be, and I'll certainly be hoping for that.
Van Gaal said on the tour that he picked the system because of the players he has. If the options he has available change then I think its fair to say the system will.
At the moment, or until we buy some more players, then yes Carrick and Herrera are our best pairing in the centre of the midfield.
Fletcher is a good person to have off the pitch, so I see his vice-captaincy role, as akin to Robson, who was Club Captain whilst Steve Bruce was team captain, Ribbon didn't play much at the end, but was still a good influence on the squad as a whole.
But Fletcher is just not the sort of player that we should be relying on, but at the moment, until Carrick comes back, he will be in the side, as he is the only one who can even remotely play that combative role in the side.