Probably one of the pettiest and nastiest posts on this forum for a long time. Maybe Scottish politicians thought it was better to go to smaller events in Scotland to show respect.
No it was neither a nasty or petty post - it ostensibly raised a perfectly valid point - however, the equally valid response posted by MATTN indicated why.
I think you may have a worthwhile point with your suggested banning of politicians though!!
Probably one of the pettiest and nastiest posts on this forum for a long time. Maybe Scottish politicians thought it was better to go to smaller events in Scotland to show respect.
How so? I think its quite appropriate to ask why no senior Scottish politician attended the NATIONAL remembrance event at the Cenotaph?
The politicians have gradually increased over the years. Until 1945 only the PM laid a wreath, but the story goes that Churchill turned up that year with one on the day and no one was going to tell him he couldn't lay it. For many years the threshold was parties with 6 or more seats as that had been the number of seats the Liberals had in 1951.
At one time the wreath laying was before the 2 minute silence.
I think the powers that be will have to revisit the criteria they set up - i.e. mimimum 6 MPs to qualify.
It seems a pity to be arguing about this but the fact is they have created an anomaly by allowing the two Nationalist Parties to be regarded as one for the purposes of wreath laying.
Why? I can't see the principle behind this. They are separate Parties.
How so? I think its quite appropriate to ask why no senior Scottish politician attended the NATIONAL remembrance event at the Cenotaph?
It never ceases to amaze me how some people never read what is posted in a thread before getting on their high horses and ranting about things. If you had READ post 10 then you would have seen the answer to your point.
And Phil2804 happens to be totally against Scottish Independence & all the SNP stand for having seen his posts during the IndyRef , so just another chance for his ilk to try & bash the 'Nats'... & failing again.
I understand they had some event in Scotland instead.
Even so the SNP couldnt spare some politico to lay a wreath?
Even the Irish joined in this year.
Scotland and Zimbabwe missing from the Cenotaph in 2014 not a good list to be on.
I think it's the sneering tone used by some posters about Scotland that annoys some people.
I say that as someone born and brought up in England for 50 plus years. You wouldn't get away with it for some other nationalities, so why is it OK to constantly denigrate Scotland?
I think the powers that be will have to revisit the criteria they set up - i.e. mimimum 6 MPs to qualify.
It seems a pity to be arguing about this but the fact is they have created an anomaly by allowing the two Nationalist Parties to be regarded as one for the purposes of wreath laying.
Why? I can't see the principle behind this. They are separate Parties.
I suppose the principle is to limit the number of people at the Cenotaph to keep the service to a manageable size. However, I do agree that the threshold of 6 should be reduced. There are religious leaders there from many faiths so it would be fair for politics to be more widely represented.
I suppose the principle is to limit the number of people at the Cenotaph to keep the service to a manageable size. However, I do agree that the threshold of 6 should be reduced. There are religious leaders there from many faiths so it would be fair for politics to be more widely represented.
What purpose do the politicians serve by being there? Is it just a case of a pissing contest with "my wreath is bigger than yours" or "I'm looking sadder than him"?
Some of these politicians are complicit in sending our soldiers to their deaths, as well as killing many soldiers in other countries doing nothing more than defending their country from foreign invaders. It is total hypocrisy for them to stand there looking sad while showing that they haven't learnt from the sacrifices of soldiers in the past. If they really meant it, they would be doing their utmost preventing wars rather than thinking of new ones to get involved in (and giving their arms manufacturing donors a boost in income).
What purpose do the politicians serve by being there? Is it just a case of a pissing contest with "my wreath is bigger than yours" or "I'm looking sadder than him"?
Some of these politicians are complicit in sending our soldiers to their deaths, as well as killing many soldiers in other countries doing nothing more than defending their country from foreign invaders. It is total hypocrisy for them to stand there looking sad while showing that they haven't learnt from the sacrifices of soldiers in the past. If they really meant it, they would be doing their utmost preventing wars rather than thinking of new ones to get involved in (and giving their arms manufacturing donors a boost in income).
Thats another issue. Whether politicians should be there at all.
As it stands, a politician from each Party having 6 or more MPs lays a wreath.
But an exception has been allowed in the case of the two Nationalist Parties. According to the criteria laid down the SNP (6 MPs) is entitled to lay a wreath but Plaid Cymru (3 Mps) isn't. There is apparently an agreement that they take alternate turns.
Its an anomaly and I can't see anything wrong in the OP pointing this out.
If the make-up of Parliament becomes more fragmented it will need to be looked at again.
What purpose do the politicians serve by being there? Is it just a case of a pissing contest with "my wreath is bigger than yours" or "I'm looking sadder than him"?
Some of these politicians are complicit in sending our soldiers to their deaths, as well as killing many soldiers in other countries doing nothing more than defending their country from foreign invaders. It is total hypocrisy for them to stand there looking sad while showing that they haven't learnt from the sacrifices of soldiers in the past. If they really meant it, they would be doing their utmost preventing wars rather than thinking of new ones to get involved in (and giving their arms manufacturing donors a boost in income).
I disagree. If politicians have voted to send our military into conflict then the least they can do is turn up at a remembrance service in front of veterans and the families of those who lost their lives rather than hide away.
Going back to the original point, the non-appearance of the SNP is a non-story as it has been explained that they alternative with PC. I'm sure Gordon Brown had a good excuse too.
Thats another issue. Whether politicians should be there at all.
As it stands, a politician from each Party having 6 or more MPs lays a wreath.
But an exception has been allowed in the case of the two Nationalist Parties. According to the criteria laid down the SNP (6 MPs) is entitled to lay a wreath but Plaid Cymru (3 Mps) isn't. There is apparently an agreement that they take alternate turns.
Its an anomaly and I can't see anything wrong in the OP pointing this out.
If the make-up of Parliament becomes more fragmented it will need to be looked at again.
It's not an anomaly really...it's a perfectly rational solution to ensure that parties that are specifically Welsh/Scottish...whose men died in their thousands are represented at the ceremony.
Just as N Ireland is represented by a party only stands for election there.
The 6 or more rule if rigidly applied could open up an interesting can of worms next year...when in theory Sinn Fein could increase the number of their MPs from 5 to a qualifying 6...would they turn up at all? And would the Unionists object if they did?
And the OP was not just pointing out an "anomaly"...they were either writing from a point of ignorance/not understanding the convention or knowing why and writing in a dismissive way they knew full well would wind up some posters on here...and knowing full well some people cannot resist biting on the bait they cast on the water.
Yet another hit and run thread by a fast disappearing WUM or sock puppet.
It's not an anomaly really...it's a perfectly rational solution to ensure that parties that are specifically Welsh/Scottish...whose men died in their thousands are represented at the ceremony.
Just as N Ireland is represented by a party only stands for election there.
The 6 or more rule if rigidly applied could open up an interesting can of worms next year...when in theory Sinn Fein could increase the number of their MPs from 5 to a qualifying 6...would they turn up at all? And would the Unionists object if they did?
And the OP was not just pointing out an "anomaly"...they were either writing from a point of ignorance/not understanding the convention or knowing why and writing in a dismissive way they knew full well would wind up some posters on here...and knowing full well some people cannot resist biting on the bait they cast on the water.
Yet another hit and run thread by a fast disappearing WUM or sock puppet.
Its not a rational solution, because one year the Welsh are represented by an MP and the next year they aren't; similarly the Scots. Each year one or the other is not represented, so that dismisses your argument
As far as Sinn Fein is concerned they can be ruled out because they haven't taken their seats in Parliament. When they do it would be up to them whether they attend.
An interesting scenario could possibly turn up after the 2015 election. If the Greens got 2 seats, and UKIP got 4 seats, on the current criteria they would not be able to lay a wreath, yet Plaid Cymru (assuming 3 seats again) would be there every other year to lay a wreath. Would the powers that be suggest that UKIP and the Greens (because together they have 6 seats) alternate? I doubt it.
Perhaps you can see the anomaly that has been created.
Comments
My only grandson's is on the 13th same day as my mother's.
I think you may have a worthwhile point with your suggested banning of politicians though!!
It would appear that smudges dad prefers politicians who vote for appeasement
Don't talk bollocks by assigning opinions to others.
I object to unjustified foreign wars and our forces being sent to kill people over matters in which we aren't involved.
They weren't allowed.
How so? I think its quite appropriate to ask why no senior Scottish politician attended the NATIONAL remembrance event at the Cenotaph?
I prefer politicians who do not send other peoples sons and daughters to fight in countries when there was no justifiable reason to do so.
And if you're still "asking" why not pop back to page one............................you'll find the reason.
At one time the wreath laying was before the 2 minute silence.
Yes it certainly seems MASSIVELY IMPORTANT.
It seems a pity to be arguing about this but the fact is they have created an anomaly by allowing the two Nationalist Parties to be regarded as one for the purposes of wreath laying.
Why? I can't see the principle behind this. They are separate Parties.
Seriously?
As you typed that was there no small part of your brain that warned it might be a dickish thing to say?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Art-Fishing-Paul-Fersen/dp/0762408464
It never ceases to amaze me how some people never read what is posted in a thread before getting on their high horses and ranting about things. If you had READ post 10 then you would have seen the answer to your point.
I say that as someone born and brought up in England for 50 plus years. You wouldn't get away with it for some other nationalities, so why is it OK to constantly denigrate Scotland?
I suppose the principle is to limit the number of people at the Cenotaph to keep the service to a manageable size. However, I do agree that the threshold of 6 should be reduced. There are religious leaders there from many faiths so it would be fair for politics to be more widely represented.
What purpose do the politicians serve by being there? Is it just a case of a pissing contest with "my wreath is bigger than yours" or "I'm looking sadder than him"?
Some of these politicians are complicit in sending our soldiers to their deaths, as well as killing many soldiers in other countries doing nothing more than defending their country from foreign invaders. It is total hypocrisy for them to stand there looking sad while showing that they haven't learnt from the sacrifices of soldiers in the past. If they really meant it, they would be doing their utmost preventing wars rather than thinking of new ones to get involved in (and giving their arms manufacturing donors a boost in income).
Thats another issue. Whether politicians should be there at all.
As it stands, a politician from each Party having 6 or more MPs lays a wreath.
But an exception has been allowed in the case of the two Nationalist Parties. According to the criteria laid down the SNP (6 MPs) is entitled to lay a wreath but Plaid Cymru (3 Mps) isn't. There is apparently an agreement that they take alternate turns.
Its an anomaly and I can't see anything wrong in the OP pointing this out.
If the make-up of Parliament becomes more fragmented it will need to be looked at again.
I disagree. If politicians have voted to send our military into conflict then the least they can do is turn up at a remembrance service in front of veterans and the families of those who lost their lives rather than hide away.
Going back to the original point, the non-appearance of the SNP is a non-story as it has been explained that they alternative with PC. I'm sure Gordon Brown had a good excuse too.
It's not an anomaly really...it's a perfectly rational solution to ensure that parties that are specifically Welsh/Scottish...whose men died in their thousands are represented at the ceremony.
Just as N Ireland is represented by a party only stands for election there.
The 6 or more rule if rigidly applied could open up an interesting can of worms next year...when in theory Sinn Fein could increase the number of their MPs from 5 to a qualifying 6...would they turn up at all? And would the Unionists object if they did?
And the OP was not just pointing out an "anomaly"...they were either writing from a point of ignorance/not understanding the convention or knowing why and writing in a dismissive way they knew full well would wind up some posters on here...and knowing full well some people cannot resist biting on the bait they cast on the water.
Yet another hit and run thread by a fast disappearing WUM or sock puppet.
Its not a rational solution, because one year the Welsh are represented by an MP and the next year they aren't; similarly the Scots. Each year one or the other is not represented, so that dismisses your argument
As far as Sinn Fein is concerned they can be ruled out because they haven't taken their seats in Parliament. When they do it would be up to them whether they attend.
An interesting scenario could possibly turn up after the 2015 election. If the Greens got 2 seats, and UKIP got 4 seats, on the current criteria they would not be able to lay a wreath, yet Plaid Cymru (assuming 3 seats again) would be there every other year to lay a wreath. Would the powers that be suggest that UKIP and the Greens (because together they have 6 seats) alternate? I doubt it.
Perhaps you can see the anomaly that has been created.