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Did Sutton Coldfield VHF TV used to broadcast in Welsh?
BMR
Posts: 4,351 Forum Member
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I'm obviously going waaay back for this one.
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Sutton Coldfield used to broadcast TV in Welsh, because it was the only transmitter recievable in East Central Wales.
I only make it 55 miles as the signal flies from Sutton C to Welshpool, so it sounds plausible....
I seem to remember reading somewhere that Sutton Coldfield used to broadcast TV in Welsh, because it was the only transmitter recievable in East Central Wales.
I only make it 55 miles as the signal flies from Sutton C to Welshpool, so it sounds plausible....
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As I recall some VHF transmitters in England (including Sutton Coldfield) showed Welsh language programming on BBC1 during daytime on weekdays, during the 1960s it was scheduled at lunchtime and then during the 1970s at 3pm (before Play School). The programmes (incl Pobol y Cwm?) had already been shown in the evening on BBC1 Cymru/Wales. The other English transmitters (and those in Wales) showed the test card instead.
I think this practice ceased in 1982, just before the launch of S4C.
As the VHF signals reached a wider area bits of east Wales could receive Sutton Coldfield, and the North Wales coast Holme Moss. Crystal Palace always seemed odd, but in those prehistoric days maybe it had to be routed that way. As a Londoner in the school holidays I enjoyed the oddity of the BBC wales ident appearing ( a C with a dot inside the C) and the welsh announce telling us Heddiw would follow in 2 minutes, then some 'odd' welsh music (how I wish I could hear that again). very strange that in London we got the welsh announcer and ident, but that's the way it was.
Tros y Gareg?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C63FUQkbI54
Many thanks for that.
That is indeed the music I was thinking of. The version I was thinking of would probably have been mid to late 60's in the black and white era, so a slightly more modern version than I remember but definately same piece!
Must have been late 70's / early 80's. (I'm Sutton too!)
We must have had an old VHF tv at some point, or was it broadcast on UHF at some point?
(Suspect not, reading earlier posts!)
If it carried on until 1982, then it most certainly will have been carried on UHF
As far as I can recall, apart from test purposes, prior to a UHF transmitter officially coming on air, VHF and UHF had to (probably by law) broadcast the same thing in each region, otherwise you could create an extra channel- there were plenty of people out there with dual standard sets, so I don't think it was allowed. In any event, you weren't missing anything- in those days the transmitters that didn't take it were showing the test card.
I don't think the UHF transmitters carried the Welsh programmes so don't think the above is correct.
Just thinking about Crystal Palace carrying the Welsh programmes, could it be to provide a RBR path to Sutton Coldfield and Holme Moss in the event of a failure of the main feed.
I think the other sites switched to a local test card during the programmes.
Wouldn't it have been necessary back then for Crystal Palace to provide the feed anyway?
Don't forget that in Wales and the West, UHF transmitters did at times transmit different programmes to the VHF transmitters. Prior to UHF, HTV, or Harlech as it was then had two VHF transmitters in South Wales, Channel 10 which was a General Service for South Wales and the West of England, and Channel 7 which was a Welsh service transmitting the same output as the rest of the VHF transmitters in Wales. With the launch of UHF in 1970 at Wenvoe, in South Wales and Mendip, in the west of England, both UHF transmitters at times transmitted different programmes to what was going out on HTV's VHF transmitters. You had the HTV Wales service on UHF Wenvoe, plus the Welsh VHF transmitters, HTV West service on UHF Mendip and HTV's General service on VHF (channel 10) south Wales and the West of England. The General Service was a mixture of HTV West and Wales' output, but it mainly followed HTV West's schedule, therefore at times, HTV's General Service on VHF (south Wales and West) was transmitting different output to HTV's UHF transmitters at Wenvoe and Mendip. To complicate matters further, sometimes HTV's Wenvoe UHF transmitter would transmit different output to HTV's Welsh VHF transmitters, so you had occasions where HTV's Welsh service was even split!!! As UHF became available across Wales, the practise of splitting output on HTV Wales ceased and eventually the output of HTV Wales was the same on both UHF and VHF across Wales. However, the split between HTV's UHF and VHF (channel 10) transmitters continued until the early 80's
Reading the TV Times and planning your evenings viewing was quite a task in the early 70's with all the different splits, especially if you lived in parts of Wales that could receive both Wenvoe and Mendip UHF signals along with both VHF channels. At times you could have the choice of 3, sometimes 4 different programmes, all at the same time!!!!
I do recall and Ive never heard it since but the BBC Wales music was actually an arrangement of Beatles music done in the style of Tchaikovsky and the Nutcracker suite!
Dont forget too the Asian programme on BBC1 every Sunday and we in the Northwest had for a little while as well a Scottish Gaelic programme on a Saturday Morning .
All of these pieces were played I think by The BBC Radio phonic workshop Tros y gareg is on YouTube twice .One is the two minute version of the tune with the C ident and the other a version produced by several young musicians which sounds almost identical and is longer.
As for the testcard music I saw it on VHF but with the Phillips pm544 testcard so they were still showing the programmes on there well after colour came in..
Manchester was served in the main by Holme Moss on channel 2 which meant we got Look north from Leeds . Winter Hill and Look North from Manchester was on Channel 12 but the picture was awful.Id assume that fitted in with Granada from Winter Hill being on Channel 9 for aerial purposes as in those days it was not too common for the BBC and ITA to share the same sites.
This changed when UHF started in 1964
Wenvoe was a special case, as in VHF days it was the official transmiiter for Bristol, as well as a Cardiff (and a wider area of South Wales) I think it needed an act of parliament to make it a special case, so there were two 'BBC1' s available from the same transmitter. The same applied to Sandale, as unlike ITV the BBC didn't have an equivilent Borders region, so you were allowed to take your choice of BBC Scotland, or England North- west from the same transmitter. That's not the same thing as VHF and UHF going their seperate ways.
I think Sandale actually carried the North East regional programmes on its English channel as the regional service from Newcastle then, as now, covered the North East and Cumbria.
The Welsh lunchtime programmes were also carried on Wenvoe as well as Crystal Palace, Holme Moss and Sutton Coldfield. Whether it was the Wenvoe West channel rather than the Wenvoe Wales channel (or both) I am not sure. I'll dig out some of my Radio Times from the 60s and 70s and have a look.
Doubt it, sure it went to the GPO then onto the various circuits out of London. One North, one West etc and one to Crystal Palace.
I was told the reason CP carried the broadcasts was simply because of ex pat Welsh folk living in London. It was probably easier just to broadcast to the whole English Tx network, than to faff about in any regions not receivable in Wales.
Even Bilsdale output them at one point, as I can remember seeing the black and white BBC C slide at home sometime in the early 1970s.
A late friend of mine told me his father in Co. Tyrone, N. Ireland had TV reception from Holme Moss before local transmitters came on the air here.
I doubt that, it will have probably been for back up as someone mentioned above. They weren't broadcast from every transmitter in England though.