suspended for gross misconduct

[Deleted User] · 10/10/14 - 13:51

Hi, was wondering if anyone had any experience of gross misconduct in the work place?
I'm currently suspended on full pay pending a disciplinary hearing. Long and short of it is this. I am a supervisor at my place of work. On the day In question I witnessed a near miss. After witnessing the even I informed my senior manager and also the H&S officer. I then asked for the H&S officer to join me at the location. Between us we came up with a new SSoW to prevent an accident happening in similar circumstances.
I asked for the old SSoW to be send down to me were I would make the necessary changes and then brief it out to all concerned.
I then went on a training course whilst I awaited the paper work.
To cut a long story I then simply forgot all about it. I finished my course, passed over to my opposite number and unfortunately then went on holiday for two weeks.
I'm absolutely devastated at my oversite and the possibility of losing a job I have enjoyed for the last twenty years.
I have a union who have asked for the full time official to attend with me.
Is it worth me resigning rather than losing my job and having it on my record?
Also where would I stand with benefits whilst I am looking for a new job as I have luckily never had to rely on the state

Thanks

Fu

Raquelos. · 10/10/14 - 13:58

fumanchu1 wrote: »

Hi, was wondering if anyone had any experience of gross misconduct in the work place?
I'm currently suspended on full pay pending a disciplinary hearing. Long and short of it is this. I am a supervisor at my place of work. On the day In question I witnessed a near miss. After witnessing the even I informed my senior manager and also the H&S officer. I then asked for the H&S officer to join me at the location. Between us we came up with a new SSoW to prevent an accident happening in similar circumstances.
I asked for the old SSoW to be send down to me were I would make the necessary changes and then brief it out to all concerned.
I then went on a training course whilst I awaited the paper work.
To cut a long story I then simply forgot all about it. I finished my course, passed over to my opposite number and unfortunately then went on holiday for two weeks.
I'm absolutely devastated at my oversite and the possibility of losing a job I have enjoyed for the last twenty years.
I have a union who have asked for the full time official to attend with me.
Is it worth me resigning rather than losing my job and having it on my record?
Also where would I stand with benefits whilst I am looking for a new job as I have luckily never had to rely on the state

Thanks

Fu

Don't make any hasty decisions. Talk to your union rep and ask them how they think it will play out and what they think your best course of action is.

It's difficult to know how it will play out without knowing your work environment, but if you made a mistake which didn't have any repercussions and you have a good record (especially for 20 years) and you demonstrate your horror at the mistake you may well get away with a black mark on your record or some other sanction that you can live with.

Don't resign until you are reasonably sure that you know that the outcome is going to be the worst case scenario of being fired.

Best of luck.

JackKlugman · 10/10/14 - 14:05

Its very unlikely your going to get some useful advice here. You need to speak to a union rep or someone with the appropriate legal knowledge who can assist you.

It seems that you have been treated harshly but I dont know what the near miss was and the exact reasons why you are now suspended.

Benefits claim......you will be treated like the lowest form of Human life

Shady_Pines1 · 10/10/14 - 14:05

...also, if you resign you won't be entitled to any Job Seekers Allowance. If you're dismissed you will be, and at the very least will have your NI contributions paid for when your JSA runs out if you're still unemployed.

Viridiana · 10/10/14 - 15:07

fumanchu1 wrote: »

I have a union who have asked for the full time official to attend with me.
Is it worth me resigning rather than losing my job and having it on my record?

Do not resign. There is no such thing as a "record". If it comes to it just choose your references carefully and explain that you were not suitable for your last place of employment anymore.

It's impossible to give you an informed answer just by what you tell us but gross misconducted is a very serious offence so your employers cannot accuse you of it lightly.Check your contract and see what they itemise as gross misconduct. Why didn't they gave you an official reprimand? Plus they have to take in account the the years working for the company and how your performance was all those years. But above all you do not have to accept their decision, you can still take them to court for unfair dismissal. A lot of employers use gross misconduct for not paying compensation when they want to fire an employee and the courts are very aware of that.

Boselecta · 10/10/14 - 15:56

Nobody on here can give anything other than very general advice. My advice is to not do anything hasty at any point, take your time over every step no matter how obvious/trivial that step might appear... These disciplinary processes always have "thinking time" built into them so you'll always have time to consider each step, sleep on things and consult expert advice before you take any decisions.

gashead · 10/10/14 - 16:30

fumanchu1 wrote: »

I asked for the old SSoW to be send down to me were I would make the necessary changes and then brief it out to all concerned.
I then went on a training course whilst I awaited the paper work.
To cut a long story I then simply forgot all about it. I finished my course, passed over to my opposite number and unfortunately then went on holiday for two weeks.
Fu

I appreciate you may not be in a position to give too many details, but how did all that end up with you being suspended for GM? You say that you asked for the old SSoW (whatever that is) to be sent to you, so you could re-write and re-brief it. Was that a specific and very basic part of what you're paid to do, or just something extra you volunteered for as you were involved? Assuming it's the former (I can't imagine you'd be suspended if it wasn't), if it was so important that it's worth suspending you over, did no-one higher up chase you for it? Not even the H & S Officer? What was the impact to the company of you not doing it, e.g. did it fail a H & S audit, loose some accreditation or anything like that?

Hotgossip · 10/10/14 - 16:53

Viridiana wrote: »

Do not resign. There is no such thing as a "record". If it comes to it just choose your references carefully and explain that you were not suitable for your last place of employment anymore.

It's impossible to give you an informed answer just by what you tell us but gross misconducted is a very serious offence so your employers cannot accuse you of it lightly.Check your contract and see what they itemise as gross misconduct. Why didn't they gave you an official reprimand? Plus they have to take in account the the years working for the company and how your performance was all those years. But above all you do not have to accept their decision, you can still take them to court for unfair dismissals. A lot of employers use gross misconduct for not paying compensation when they want to fire an employee and the courts are very aware of that.

That is very true. My friend was dismissed for gross misconduct because they wanted to lose some staff. Over a year they got rid of at least 4 staff in this way. I always thought that gross misconduct meant something really terrible like theft but I read the letter they wrote her and it was stuff like not smiling at customers.

:D They also told her she was not allowed to talk about it to anyone and they would give her a basic reference.
They were a firm of solicitors!!

QTC13 · 10/10/14 - 19:48

gashead wrote: »

I appreciate you may not be in a position to give too many details, but how did all that end up with you being suspended for GM? You say that you asked for the old SSoW (whatever that is) to be sent to you, so you could re-write and re-brief it. Was that a specific and very basic part of what you're paid to do, or just something extra you volunteered for as you were involved? Assuming it's the former (I can't imagine you'd be suspended if it wasn't), if it was so important that it's worth suspending you over, did no-one higher up chase you for it? Not even the H & S Officer? What was the impact to the company of you not doing it, e.g. did it fail a H & S audit, loose some accreditation or anything like that?

SSoW = Safe System of Work. A work instruction that is to be followed for each specific task.

If you need any advice ACAS are good. Take your union rep with you to ALL meetings.

nvingo · 11/10/14 - 03:19

QTC13 wrote: »

SSoW = Safe System of Work. A work instruction that is to be followed for each specific task.

If you need any advice ACAS are good. Take your union rep with you to ALL meetings.

So a safe system of work that was already in place for a period of time, remained in place for a further two weeks after @fumanchu pointed out that it was inadequate and was tasked with revising it.
I question why the OP was suspended, as it was the existing SSoW not implemented by him which was the problem.

I've known a supervisor suspended for several weeks for working whilst intoxicated, return to a lesser position with conditions; though he did then seek alternative employment and resign.

scott789s · 11/10/14 - 09:26

Stay Strong, I've been in a similar position where the organisation I gave 15 years loyal service turned on me. One thing it does bring home is that the people in HR really are the lowest of the low.

[Deleted User] · 11/10/14 - 09:52

This time last year I was suspended for basically someone else's error. Eventually my union rep and me tried our best to undermine the evidence that was presented at the disciplinary hearing, one big point that I made was the definition of GM was where an employer feels that they no longer have trust in an employee either to carry out their job adequately or they cannot trust the person anymore because of their character. Based on that I argued why I still remain in the company's employ

Sadly for me the charges were upheld which resulted in a demotion (I was removed as an on the job instructor) but remained in my usual function and received a 52 week final warning which has now expired.

I know how anguished you must be feeling OP, listen to your TU rep and remain confident in yourself. I'd forget any thoughts of resignation if I was you, just see yourself as a cornered animal looking to fight for your survival come hearing time.

I wish for the best outcome for you OP

[Deleted User] · 11/10/14 - 09:57

scott789s wrote: »

Stay Strong, I've been in a similar position where the organisation I gave 15 years loyal service turned on me. One thing it does bring home is that the people in HR really are the lowest of the low.

Indeed i had 11 years good service and even my managers were stunned things went that far. I turns out there is someone in HR who is meant to oversee the fairness of disciplinary proceedings who actually demanded my dismissal

kitty86 · 11/10/14 - 10:50

I was in a similar position to you a few years ago OP and was suspended for what turned out to be a cash handing oversight. It was quite literally the worst 5 months of my life! I was a wreck but I had to pick myself up and keep fighting because I knew if I didn't they would have won. Even when they sent me the "fact finding investigation pack" which was full of lies and evidence from people that a company knew I had a long running problem with. I wrote letters to the investigator, my union rep, my manager, the person who was hearing the case pointing out all the lies that were told and I think that they were surprised with my articulate and intelligent behaviour and realised they had seriously undermined me.

Anyway long story short I ended up getting a 4 year final warning. It left a very bitter taste in my mouth and although I still work for the company I am very wary of everything when it comes to HR.

It hasn't been as career damaging as I though it would be and I have been promoted a few times since it happened but my advise is be on top of everything - the situation, the guide lines, the laws, the company everything. HR don't like it when you have more knowledge than them but that's the only way to win these things.

Most of all you need to portray and remind them of your good character. My manager told me afterwards that the person who held the hearing told her I was a pleasant, articulate, knowledgable person and I should not have been in that situation at all.

TelevisionUser · 11/10/14 - 20:49

QTC13 wrote: »

SSoW = Safe System of Work. A work instruction that is to be followed for each specific task.

If you need any advice ACAS are good. Take your union rep with you to ALL meetings.

...and the link is here: http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1461

QTC13 · 11/10/14 - 21:36

nvingo wrote: »

So a safe system of work that was already in place for a period of time, remained in place for a further two weeks after @fumanchu pointed out that it was inadequate and was tasked with revising it.
I question why the OP was suspended, as it was the existing SSoW not implemented by him which was the problem.

I've known a supervisor suspended for several weeks for working whilst intoxicated, return to a lesser position with conditions; though he did then seek alternative employment and resign.

Actually, it's more the fact that a revised SSoW wasn't implemented that I think is the issue - to prevent another incident from occurring.

Given that the revised SSoW could possibly prevent an accident from happening I can kind of see how the company would view this as serious as it has. Imagine that an accident did occur (I know it didn't) and the company had done an investigation and the conclusion was a revised SSoW was needed - first question that would be asked is - "Why wasn't a revised SSoW in place?".Imagine it this way - you were the one that had an accident and later found out that a previous incident occurred. A subsequent investigation found a revised SSoW was needed - but hadn't been issued.

OP, I'm not trying to second guess the outcome of your disciplinary hearing. Hope everything works out for you as you wish.

TWS · 11/10/14 - 21:45

QTC13 wrote: »

Actually, it's more the fact that a revised SSoW wasn't implemented that I think is the issue - to prevent another incident from occurring.

Given that the revised SSoW could possibly prevent an accident from happening I can kind of see how the company would view this as serious as it has. Imagine that an accident did occur (I know it didn't) and the company had done an investigation and the conclusion was a revised SSoW was needed - first question that would be asked is - "Why wasn't a revised SSoW in place?".Imagine it this way - you were the one that had an accident and later found out that a previous incident occurred. A subsequent investigation found a revised SSoW was needed - but hadn't been issued.

OP, I'm not trying to second guess the outcome of your disciplinary hearing. Hope everything works out for you as you wish.

I would personally question why it was their job if they had a health and safety officer I would have thought it was in their remit and not the supervisors responsibility

QTC13 · 11/10/14 - 21:50

TWS wrote: »

I would personally question why it was their job if they had a health and safety officer I would have thought it was in their remit and not the supervisors responsibility

Actually, it's not uncommon for Supervisors/Team Leaders to write SSoW's as who better to know what needs doing, than those that actually DO the job. It's usual for H&S Manager to sign them off. But to actually write them up, I'd say it's within their remit (Supervisors/Team Leaders).

TWS · 11/10/14 - 21:57

QTC13 wrote: »

Actually, it's not uncommon for Supervisors/Team Leaders to write SSoW's as who better to know what needs doing, than those that actually DO the job. It's usual for H&S Manager to sign them off. But to actually write them up, I'd say it's within their remit (Supervisors/Team Leaders).

I'm not saying it's not, however I certainly think it's far from gross misconduct especially at a supervisors level. I would say it seems more of a case of trying to get rid of someone who has long service over something small for whatever reason.

Hey there!

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