Only part I felt was a bit corny was the Fury with the Harry Potter dementor-esque soul sucking and then the Guardians of the Galaxy style hand holding to beat it, but that could just be because of it feeling like a bit of a rip off of those things.
Ahh, see now my first thought there was the X-men saving Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix story arc by all giving a % of their life to bring her back, rather than the holdind hands to defeat the Infinity Stone element of GotG but I suspect it was a deliberate nod to both those comic book moments (even if they're both on the Marvel side of the fence )
ETA: Interesting theory put forward on another site. I'll put it in spoilers but it doesn't really have anything other than speculation:
Regina needed to become the Savior naturally as opposed to wanting it so damn hard in Camelot. Black Swan erased their memories so it could happen and is playing the darkness so the light, in Regina, can emerge. Why?Because there is a bigger darkness in Camelot (see Spoiler Alert). Black Swan is playing the role, to allow Regina to become the hero , extract Excalibur, and defeat the real enemy.
And my speculation for the above is that our Guinevere isn't Guinevere but is actually Arthur's half-sister and "enemy" Morgan le Fay in disguise (or Nimue if they're going to use Merlin's "enemy". She's just too sly/creepy/having a strange edit for me to think she's plain old Guinny.
Wow. This is literally too much. First they tried to turn Regina into bandit Snow and even stole David and Snow's forbidden love drama back in season 1 last season and now they're trying to make Regina the saviour? And of course she demonstrate her selfishness yet again - it was never about protecting Emma, it was about proving herself to everyone. She is self pitying and gross. I've never seen another show where the writers are this biased.
My problem with Regina is as again - her blaming everyone else except herself. And the use of dagger on Emma, there was no need and having to thank her. Is she forgetting the Emma saved her life with becoming the dark one, And acting like its nothing.
I actually felt for Percival and what happened. I couldnt actually imagine
Emma is the savior STILL - sure the Storybrooke doesnt have one but her saviour status is not something you can hand off or some curse that can go around like its something.
It will be interesting to see if Emma will take the sword out but i think she will get Hook to do. And the price she will pay.
I felt sorry for Hook. He is all over the place and he is on edge and angsty and frustrated. And he knows what Darkness can do and also Emma has a dark curse in her and he knows what they will do, he has the longest history with the dark one. And he knows his Emma.... and also who Dark Emma is too. He makes them seperate.
Two failed true love kiss attempts in the episode but we know why... Camelot - Emma liked the feel of dark magic hence it didnt work when she kissed Hook. And Storybrooke - she wants to be the Dark One and is indulging in it.
Henry and Violet was cute. Aww.
I loved the Snow and Emma moment. I liked that we got that.
It's fairly obvious they're setting up the theme for the first half of the season to be the complete turnaround in position from Evil Queen/Saviour to be Saviour/Dark One which is a interesting dynamic because Regina carried out a fair amount of "evul" deeds in her time in the Enchanted Forest.
Yes. I suppose the question then becomes how "good" does a saviour need to be? If Regina's actions are heroic/selfless now is that enough? I also liked the scene between Regina and Dark Emma when Emma said about there being no good or bad versions of a person and it was all just her. I thought that was interesting because it's true in one sense but not in another and basically they're in the position where Regina always used to make the selfish/dark choice but is now trying to make the good choice and Emma is the opposite of that, giving into the darkness means that she doesn't have to make the selfless forgiving choices anymore.
I'm still not sold on their Camelot narrative yet although I loved Merlin being trapped in the willow tree, it's one of the myths that often gets overlooked in an Arthurian legends re-telling (although the cracking good Merlin with Sam Neil as the titualar character did have him voluntarily going into exile with Nimue which was another nice twist).
But Sir Percival willingly attempting to murder/revenge kill the Evil Queen just didn't sit well in any Arthurian narrative, sorry. Sir Percival was one of the truest, fairest knights of all at Arthur's Round Table. He's the original Grail Knight (before he was usurped by Sir Galahad), truest and pure of heart so that really peed me off.
They could have run the same story narrative but with a random "not Round Table" knight and still had Guinevere giving her warning.Not sure I like her either, she seems rather sly and Arthur's not convinced me either so I hope they do flesh out Camelot as we go along.
I feel pretty much the same. I thought you'd be annoyed about Percival.
Ahh, see now my first thought there was the X-men saving Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix story arc by all giving a % of their life to bring her back, rather than the holdind hands to defeat the Infinity Stone element of GotG but I suspect it was a deliberate nod to both those comic book moments (even if they're both on the Marvel side of the fence )
Oh yeah, I forgot the X-men thing. I'm sure they did mean it as a nod (if they didn't then they must have been living under a rock for the past year or so ). I still would have liked a different effect for the soul sucking, would have been cool/creepy to have it pulled out of their eyes for example.
ETA: Interesting theory put forward on another site. I'll put it in spoilers but it doesn't really have anything other than speculation:
And my speculation for the above is that our Guinevere isn't Guinevere but is actually Arthur's half-sister and "enemy" Morgan le Fay in disguise (or Nimue if they're going to use Merlin's "enemy". She's just too sly/creepy/having a strange edit for me to think she's plain old Guinny.
That is interesting, but I'm not sure I buy it. It sounds just a little too Swanqueen fanfic ish to me.
Totally agree with you about Guinevere, I got strong 'wrong un' vibes from her when she was talking to Arthur at the round table, and also the way she asked him about Excalibur in Storybrooke. Plus it could also help explain why Arthur is so besotted/trusting even though this seems to be after Lancelot got banished.
Wow. This is literally too much. First they tried to turn Regina into bandit Snow and even stole David and Snow's forbidden love drama back in season 1 last season and now they're trying to make Regina the saviour? And of course she demonstrate her selfishness yet again - it was never about protecting Emma, it was about proving herself to everyone. She is self pitying and gross. I've never seen another show where the writers are this biased.
But the point of the last finale was that everyone was swapped over/opposite, you could just as easily say that Snow "stole" being the evil queen. I'd agree that in Storybrooke it was about proving herself, but in Camelot saying she was the saviour was definitely about saving Emma.
Really I think they've had Regina on a redemption arc since S2, I don't think it's bias it's just the direction they're taking with the character. Plus a recurring theme in the show is that everyone makes bad or selfish choices but people still deserve a chance to redeem themselves.
My problem with Regina is as again - her blaming everyone else except herself. And the use of dagger on Emma, there was no need and having to thank her. Is she forgetting the Emma saved her life with becoming the dark one, And acting like its nothing.
I actually felt for Percival and what happened. I couldnt actually imagine.
I think you're right that Regina does have a tendency to blame other people first, but they also show her being willing to accept responsibility for what she's done. A case in point would be this episode; at first she blamed Emma for the Fury (not unreasonable as they have no memory of what happened in Camelot and Emma gave that ominous warning about a problem coming), but when she talked to Emma and Emma told her that she was the one who hadn't paid the price of magic Regina immediately went to sacrifice herself.
The use of the dagger on Emma she explained her reasons in the episode and it was all to do with protecting and helping Emma. I thought the thank you thing was clearly shown to be unintentional and was probably put in to demonstrate the dagger's power, Regina was just using a figure of speech but because she was holding the dagger it translated to a direct order. When she put the dagger away Emma said thank you sincerely because she accepted Regina's reasons for pretending to be the saviour.
I felt very bad for Percival too, and I don't think anyone would have defended Regina's actions then (although I think they could have played it better by having Regina apologise to him before he pulled his sword out) but I think Percival did the wrong thing attacking her, if he had told Arthur about her at first there could have been a different resolution.
That is interesting, but I'm not sure I buy it. It sounds just a little too Swanqueen fanfic ish to me.
I don't think it's meant to be SwanQueen-ish so much as demonstrating the connection and parallels between Henry's two mothers and the role reversal/choices/selfish/selfless mirroring of the characters etc.
SwanQueen shipping does make me laugh though.
But the point of the last finale was that everyone was swapped over/opposite, you could just as easily say that Snow "stole" being the evil queen. I'd agree that in Storybrooke it was about proving herself, but in Camelot saying she was the saviour was definitely about saving Emma. Really I think they've had Regina on a redemption arc since S2, I don't think it's bias it's just the direction they're taking with the character. Plus a recurring theme in the show is that everyone makes bad or selfish choices but people still deserve a chance to redeem themselves.
I think you're right that Regina does have a tendency to blame other people first, but they also show her being willing to accept responsibility for what she's done. A case in point would be this episode; at first she blamed Emma for the Fury (not unreasonable as they have no memory of what happened in Camelot and Emma gave that ominous warning about a problem coming), but when she talked to Emma and Emma told her that she was the one who hadn't paid the price of magic Regina immediately went to sacrifice herself.
The use of the dagger on Emma she explained her reasons in the episode and it was all to do with protecting and helping Emma. I thought the thank you thing was clearly shown to be unintentional and was probably put in to demonstrate the dagger's power, Regina was just using a figure of speech but because she was holding the dagger it translated to a direct order. When she put the dagger away Emma said thank you sincerely because she accepted Regina's reasons for pretending to be the saviour.
I felt very bad for Percival too, and I don't think anyone would have defended Regina's actions then (although I think they could have played it better by having Regina apologise to him before he pulled his sword out) but I think Percival did the wrong thing attacking her, if he had told Arthur about her at first there could have been a different resolution.
I don't think it's meant to be SwanQueen-ish so much as demonstrating the connection and parallels between Henry's two mothers and the role reversal/choices/selfish/selfless mirroring of the characters etc.
SwanQueen shipping does make me laugh though.
Hmm, maybe. I suppose I can see them doing an 'even when Emma chooses the darkness she's doing it to save everyone' thing.
I swear the SwanQueen thing is worse than Merthur!
Hmm, maybe. I suppose I can see them doing an 'even when Emma chooses the darkness she's doing it to save everyone' thing.
I swear the SwanQueen thing is worse than Merthur!
Hey nothing wrong with Merthur (when it's the characters not the actors that it, then it got creepy) plus there definitely was fan service shade on the show whereas I think SwanQueen is wishful thinking!
Hey nothing wrong with Merthur (when it's the characters not the actors that it, then it got creepy) plus there definitely was fan service shade on the show whereas I think SwanQueen is wishful thinking!
That's why I said SwanQueen is worse ;-) Merthur is crazy too but they absolutely did play up to it.
Solid episode but didn't really care for Robin's almost death and the price Regina paid a little quickly for it as well.
I did like her having to step up a bit though as the Saviour I guess and Emma as the Dark One worked a little better in this episode.
The dagger and Excalibur connection was a little unexpected but worked well enough. Not totally feeling this version of Arthur and Guinevere though. Merlin being a tree, um interesting enough.
I almost get the feeling that Henry's crush is either going to turn traitor or be killed off later in the season. 8/10
The dagger and Excalibur connection was a little unexpected but worked well enough. Not totally feeling this version of Arthur and Guinevere though. Merlin being a tree, um interesting enough.
Merlin being trapped in a tree is actually true to the Arthurian legends. I don't know all the detail of it, but I do know that Cadiva could tell us.
I almost get the feeling that Henry's crush is either going to turn traitor or be killed off later in the season.
I think having her be a traitor or get killed is way too harsh, I don't think they'd do that. My guess is that at/near the end of the season all the Camelot people will be sent back to Camelot and she will have to go with them. I will further bet that she kisses Henry for the first time right before she leaves.
Merlin being trapped in a tree is actually true to the Arthurian legends. I don't know all the detail of it, but I do know that Cadiva could tell us.
I think having her be a traitor or get killed is way too harsh, I don't think they'd do that. My guess is that at/near the end of the season all the Camelot people will be sent back to Camelot and she will have to go with them. I will further bet that she kisses Henry for the first time right before she leaves.
Heh I can indeed. In the legends Merlin is tricked by a young woman called Nimue who comes to him as his apprentice seeking to learn magic etc and, when she's plundered all his secrets, she basically traps him inside a tree.
The Beguiling of Merlin is a wonderful painting by the Pre-Raphaelite painter Edward Burne-Jones depicting Nimue reading from a spellbook and Merlin trapped inside a hawthorn bush.
His fate is to remain within the tree/bush and he's still there
Nimue is also sometimes identified as the Lady of the Lake but for me, she's a separate character and Viviane is the Lady of the Lake.
Heh I can indeed. In the legends Merlin is tricked by a young woman called Nimue who comes to him as his apprentice seeking to learn magic etc and, when she's plundered all his secrets, she basically traps him inside a tree.
The Beguiling of Merlin is a wonderful painting by the Pre-Raphaelite painter Edward Burne-Jones depicting Nimue reading from a spellbook and Merlin trapped inside a hawthorn bush.
His fate is to remain within the tree/bush and he's still there
Nimue is also sometimes identified as the Lady of the Lake but for me, she's a separate character and Viviane is the Lady of the Lake.
Hey I knew more of that than I thought! Clearly you've managed to impart some knowledge on me over the years :)
Hey I knew more of that than I thought! Clearly you've managed to impart some knowledge on me over the years :)
Marvellous It will be interesting to see how close OUAT strays to the Camelot legends, so far they're not doing a particularly good job of it with their Knights
Marvellous It will be interesting to see how close OUAT strays to the Camelot legends, so far they're not doing a particularly good job of it with their Knights
If anyone says the word 'Shrubbery', I shall punch the air and cheer loudly.
Marvellous It will be interesting to see how close OUAT strays to the Camelot legends, so far they're not doing a particularly good job of it with their Knights
In fairness I think they don't have time to delve into the knight's back stories or flesh out their characters so they probably don't really care about getting them accurate. I think they're just using the names people will have some recognition of.
I did have a moment in episode 1, after Arthur found them at Granny's and said they should come to Camelot where I really wanted one of them to say "let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place" ;-):D
I did have a moment in episode 1, after Arthur found them at Granny's and said they should come to Camelot where I really wanted one of them to say "let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place" ;-):D
I I did have a moment in episode 1, after Arthur found them at Granny's and said they should come to Camelot where I really wanted one of them to say "let's not go to Camelot. It is a silly place" ;-):D
As soon as I saw the place, I was saying 'It's only a model.'
That's a good point actually, I agree. I'm probably not giving it the proper attention that it deserves because of those as well.
Must remember to give their Camelot arc some proper consideration to allow them to tell their story and not be so picky!
I think it is hard the more knowledge/investment you have of/in the story and characters, it's distracting and there's more for it to live up to. So I'm not particularly impressed with their Arthur yet, but a King Arthur is always going to have to do more to make me go 'wow, this is good' than a Robin Hood or a Prince Charming is (not that I'm overflowing with praise for those characters either ^_^:p).
As soon as I saw the place, I was saying 'It's only a model.'
ha I saw the bridge in this one and went "whats your favourite colour"...followed by It's only a flesh wound, they're really drawing from Monty Python lol
ha I saw the bridge in this one and went "whats your favourite colour"...followed by It's only a flesh wound, they're really drawing from Monty Python lol
Comments
Ahh, see now my first thought there was the X-men saving Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix story arc by all giving a % of their life to bring her back, rather than the holdind hands to defeat the Infinity Stone element of GotG but I suspect it was a deliberate nod to both those comic book moments (even if they're both on the Marvel side of the fence
ETA: Interesting theory put forward on another site. I'll put it in spoilers but it doesn't really have anything other than speculation:
And my speculation for the above is that our Guinevere isn't Guinevere but is actually Arthur's half-sister and "enemy" Morgan le Fay in disguise (or Nimue if they're going to use Merlin's "enemy". She's just too sly/creepy/having a strange edit for me to think she's plain old Guinny.
I actually felt for Percival and what happened. I couldnt actually imagine
Emma is the savior STILL - sure the Storybrooke doesnt have one but her saviour status is not something you can hand off or some curse that can go around like its something.
It will be interesting to see if Emma will take the sword out but i think she will get Hook to do. And the price she will pay.
I felt sorry for Hook. He is all over the place and he is on edge and angsty and frustrated. And he knows what Darkness can do and also Emma has a dark curse in her and he knows what they will do, he has the longest history with the dark one. And he knows his Emma.... and also who Dark Emma is too. He makes them seperate.
Two failed true love kiss attempts in the episode but we know why... Camelot - Emma liked the feel of dark magic hence it didnt work when she kissed Hook. And Storybrooke - she wants to be the Dark One and is indulging in it.
Henry and Violet was cute. Aww.
I loved the Snow and Emma moment. I liked that we got that.
I feel pretty much the same. I thought you'd be annoyed about Percival.
Oh yeah, I forgot the X-men thing. I'm sure they did mean it as a nod (if they didn't then they must have been living under a rock for the past year or so
That is interesting, but I'm not sure I buy it. It sounds just a little too Swanqueen fanfic ish to me.
Totally agree with you about Guinevere, I got strong 'wrong un' vibes from her when she was talking to Arthur at the round table, and also the way she asked him about Excalibur in Storybrooke. Plus it could also help explain why Arthur is so besotted/trusting even though this seems to be after Lancelot got banished.
Really I think they've had Regina on a redemption arc since S2, I don't think it's bias it's just the direction they're taking with the character. Plus a recurring theme in the show is that everyone makes bad or selfish choices but people still deserve a chance to redeem themselves.
I think you're right that Regina does have a tendency to blame other people first, but they also show her being willing to accept responsibility for what she's done. A case in point would be this episode; at first she blamed Emma for the Fury (not unreasonable as they have no memory of what happened in Camelot and Emma gave that ominous warning about a problem coming), but when she talked to Emma and Emma told her that she was the one who hadn't paid the price of magic Regina immediately went to sacrifice herself.
The use of the dagger on Emma she explained her reasons in the episode and it was all to do with protecting and helping Emma. I thought the thank you thing was clearly shown to be unintentional and was probably put in to demonstrate the dagger's power, Regina was just using a figure of speech but because she was holding the dagger it translated to a direct order. When she put the dagger away Emma said thank you sincerely because she accepted Regina's reasons for pretending to be the saviour.
I felt very bad for Percival too, and I don't think anyone would have defended Regina's actions then (although I think they could have played it better by having Regina apologise to him before he pulled his sword out) but I think Percival did the wrong thing attacking her, if he had told Arthur about her at first there could have been a different resolution.
I don't think it's meant to be SwanQueen-ish so much as demonstrating the connection and parallels between Henry's two mothers and the role reversal/choices/selfish/selfless mirroring of the characters etc.
SwanQueen shipping does make me laugh though.
Totally agree Nat.
I swear the SwanQueen thing is worse than Merthur!
Hey nothing wrong with Merthur
Very much so!
I did like her having to step up a bit though as the Saviour I guess and Emma as the Dark One worked a little better in this episode.
The dagger and Excalibur connection was a little unexpected but worked well enough. Not totally feeling this version of Arthur and Guinevere though. Merlin being a tree, um interesting enough.
I almost get the feeling that Henry's crush is either going to turn traitor or be killed off later in the season. 8/10
I think having her be a traitor or get killed is way too harsh, I don't think they'd do that. My guess is that at/near the end of the season all the Camelot people will be sent back to Camelot and she will have to go with them. I will further bet that she kisses Henry for the first time right before she leaves.
Heh I can indeed. In the legends Merlin is tricked by a young woman called Nimue who comes to him as his apprentice seeking to learn magic etc and, when she's plundered all his secrets, she basically traps him inside a tree.
The Beguiling of Merlin is a wonderful painting by the Pre-Raphaelite painter Edward Burne-Jones depicting Nimue reading from a spellbook and Merlin trapped inside a hawthorn bush.
His fate is to remain within the tree/bush and he's still there
Nimue is also sometimes identified as the Lady of the Lake but for me, she's a separate character and Viviane is the Lady of the Lake.
Marvellous
If anyone says the word 'Shrubbery', I shall punch the air and cheer loudly.
That would be epic!
Absolutely!
That's a good point actually, I agree. I'm probably not giving it the proper attention that it deserves because of those as well.
Must remember to give their Camelot arc some proper consideration to allow them to tell their story and not be so picky!
As soon as I saw the place, I was saying 'It's only a model.'
SHHH!
ha I saw the bridge in this one and went "whats your favourite colour"...followed by It's only a flesh wound, they're really drawing from Monty Python lol
Yep, me too! 'Your arm's off!'