Options

Merlin Series 5 - discussion, speculation and spoilers (in tags!)

12467135

Comments

  • Options
    lil_miss_blondelil_miss_blonde Posts: 9,090
    Forum Member
    Cadiva wrote: »
    I think you may end up being disappointed. As I've said before, they've said right from the very start that this isn't a story about Merlin the all powerful warlock that everyone knows about from the legends, it's about the boy/man before he reached that point. If we ever get a magic reveal I don't see it happening until towards the very end of this show's lifetime. It would be a total change in dynamic for the show to have an openly powerful Merlin working in Arthur's court and I'm not sure how that would work in terms of - lets have Merlin just blow up the latest threat to Camelot - instead of the various different types of episode and story line we have at the moment. An openly powerful Merlin makes the whole premise of the show utterly different imho.



    Yeah, but it doesn't make sense. The dragons represent the invaders versus the natural population rather than simply being two opposing forces, if you see what I mean. I guess if Morgana offers her help to the Saxons then it would fit. We'll have to see where they go in the two parter.
    I see they've also now confirmed
    Liam Cunningham for Merlin, along with returning Lindsey Duncan as Queen Annis and the lovely Janet Montgomery is also back as Princess Mithian so that's got to be to do with the "Arthur uniting the kingdoms into a single realm of Albion" storyline.
    Head.. Nail.. Hit ;)
  • Options
    MikeAP001MikeAP001 Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Any word about the other kingdoms joining Merlin like
    Queen Annis and Princess Mithian http://www.digitalspy.com/british-tv/s53/merlin/news/a377596/merlin-game-of-thrones-liam-cunningham-confirmed-for-series-five.html.

    I'd like to see Gwaine involved in storylines with Annis and Mithian. That way, Gwaine can settle his issues regarding his parents and the royals of Caerleon.

    And, I'd like to see how he interacts with Princess Mithian. They have a compatible personality--- from a developmental perspective, they're, emotionally, the healthiest characters in the entire show. Can you imagine a confrontation between those two? It would be wild!
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 40
    Forum Member
    Head.. Nail.. Hit ;)

    Does that mean we'll see King Lot?
  • Options
    MikeAP001MikeAP001 Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Does that mean we'll see King Lot?

    I think we'd see him and the kings of the other kingdoms or their emissaries
  • Options
    CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,412
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Does that mean we'll see King Lot?

    I think LMB was confirming the
    Saxon storyline rather than the unifying the kingdoms
    one.
    Head.. Nail.. Hit ;)

    Heh, that was the only logical place they could take it if they were using the dragon mythology. Still, it will be interesting to see where they're using
    Liam Cunningham. I have my theory that he's going to be one of the invading Saxons, Hengist or Horsa,
    and it's going to be
    Morgana rather than Vortigern (who obviously hasn't been involved in this Merlin) who invites them to settle in Britain as a direct challenge to Arthur.

    If he's not appearing in the opening two parter then I'm wondering if he's going to one of the many other Kings mentioned in Arthurian legend, although didn't they use Pellinore for one of the knights who got squished in series one rather than as a fellow king, or was that Pelleas?

    Other options are Lot of Orkney, who usually marries Morgause and is the father of Gawaine, Gaheris, Gareth and Agravaine in traditional legends (obviously not in this interpretation unless they just use Gareth and Gaheris as his sons). Or he could be King Uriens, who normally is married to Morgan le Fay/Morgaine and is the father of Ywaine/Yvaine or they could give her a love interest and have him be Sir Accolon, although they seemed to have given his traditional role to Agravaine in series four.

    So many options for such a fabulous actor, I hope they give him a different role to the one he's playing in
    Game of Thrones
    though, he's brilliant at the humble warrior, the noble knight etc, would be nice to see him as the evil git!
  • Options
    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    As regards Liam Cunningham's role...
    I thought he mentioned on twitter about spending the day playing a body, so I wouldn't expect him to be in it for long. The opening two parter only probably.
  • Options
    MikeAP001MikeAP001 Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    claire2281 wrote: »
    As regards Liam Cunningham's role...
    I thought he mentioned on twitter about spending the day playing a body, so I wouldn't expect him to be in it for long. The opening two parter only probably.
    Yes he did. So, maybe he played Vortigern! He had a kingdom. He and Morgana became allies and recruited the Saxons to fight for them against Arthur and the other kingdoms. Then, Morgana betrayed him leaving the poor guy a corpse. The Saxons having gained a foothold wouldn't leave and so they began expanding their holdings raiding coastal town of Nemeth and Caerleon. That would bring in Princess Mithian (who reminds Arthur of his treaty) and Queen Annis (who calls in one of the favors Arthur owes her from S04)
  • Options
    CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,412
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    claire2281 wrote: »
    As regards Liam Cunningham's role...
    I thought he mentioned on twitter about spending the day playing a body, so I wouldn't expect him to be in it for long. The opening two parter only probably.

    Ahh I hadn't seen that, interesting :)
  • Options
    lil_miss_blondelil_miss_blonde Posts: 9,090
    Forum Member
    Its come to my attention that someone is taking what i post on here and posing as me (using my forum name) and posting it elsewhere :mad: So therefore i will refrain from posting on here (spoiler wise anyway).
  • Options
    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Its come to my attention that someone is taking what i post on here and posing as me (using my forum name) and posting it elsewhere :mad: So therefore i will refrain from posting on here (spoiler wise anyway).

    Unfortunately, that is the nature of the internet. It's a public forum (and this is a large forum!) and spoilers spread like wildfire and always will do unless they're sent privately to trusted people. There was the issue last year of DS accidentally putting up the finale synopsis very briefly. It was pointed out on here and then within hours was all over tumblr, twitter and livejournal.

    So not surprised in the slightest to see the info elsewhere - it was bound to get out and I presumed it would be reported. Rather unfair that your username was used by others posing as you though! That's not on at all.

    I'm really sorry to hear that you won't be posting any more as speculating and piecing things together is my favourite past time with this show, but I understand if that's your decision.
  • Options
    lil_miss_blondelil_miss_blonde Posts: 9,090
    Forum Member
    claire2281 wrote: »
    Unfortunately, that is the nature of the internet. It's a public forum (and this is a large forum!) and spoilers spread like wildfire and always will do unless they're sent privately to trusted people. There was the issue last year of DS accidentally putting up the finale synopsis very briefly. It was pointed out on here and then within hours was all over tumblr, twitter and livejournal.

    So not surprised in the slightest to see the info elsewhere - it was bound to get out and I presumed it would be reported. Rather unfair that your username was used by others posing as you though! That's not on at all.

    I'm really sorry to hear that you won't be posting any more as speculating and piecing things together is my favourite past time with this show, but I understand if that's your decision.

    Thank you Claire, like you said its more the fact someone is using my username and actually posing as me.

    I have sent you a pm Claire and as i said above i will still be posting on the thread, just more careful with what i say :)
  • Options
    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Thank you Claire, like you said its more the fact someone is using my username and actually posing as me.

    I have sent you a pm Claire and as i said above i will still be posting on the thread, just more careful with what i say :)

    Yes, your PM was very grateful received by someone who loves those female characters more than is healthy :D
  • Options
    CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,412
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    I think passing on spoilers which are read in one place and then mentioned somewhere else is fine but actually pretending to be someone else is utterly out of order.
    Sorry to hear someone's treating your insider information in this manner LMB and thank you for my PM, it's appreciated.
  • Options
    MikeAP001MikeAP001 Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Its come to my attention that someone is taking what i post on here and posing as me (using my forum name) and posting it elsewhere :mad: So therefore i will refrain from posting on here (spoiler wise anyway).

    That's unfortunate. I hope you don't get into any trouble or anything like that and I hope you don't stop posting non-spoilery stuff.

    But, thank you for the spoilers you did provide. It confirmed or rejected some of the ideas and speculations about this show. And, it should set at ease what some of us thought was a rudderless course during S04.

    I for one am convinced the show's following a version of the Hero(ine)'s Journey. And we've seen either figuratively or literally the characters that would steer the protagonist from that Journey. Thus far, we've seen: False Knights/Damsels in Distress of Romantic Love; Ogres/Trolls of Tyranny; and at least one Dragon of Dependency representing the present/future and perhaps we'll see the other representing the past/present (okay, so maybe it MIGHT be Kilgharrah).

    Following that, S05 should be about the Reconciliation of Magic and Non-Magic and the Resurrection of Albion which often results after a conflict and spoken of as a thesis/anti-thesis synthesis. What the producers have mentioned thus far points to that from the perspective of the
    Saxon-Breton war in eps. 1-2 and the need for unifying the five kingdoms (re-union of the Anima and Animus), Morgana's alliance with the Saxons and the "mother-daughter separation", etc.

    And, what we should expect is some episode in S05 tying in the Bruta story of Merlin (showing the "break" with the masculine) with the need for unifying the kingdoms (healing the male-female split) against a common foe by making Merlin's bedtime tale less of a tale and more of a legend.

    I know I'm in the minority of this on this board but S04E13 felt lacking because there was no tie-in linking the sword in the stone with the kingdom justifying any claim to ruling Albion much less any other kingdom or elevating the tale to anything else but a made-up story. That left the question: So, why should Arthur believe it?

    Well, he saw it. But, would that be enough to convince anyone else, like the King of Mercia or Queen of Caerleon to believe much less agree with someone's claim: Give up your kingdom to me for I pulled out a sword in a stone and I am the rightful heir of Bruta, the first king of Breton, the son of Ascanius, Prince of Troy, and King of Latinus?

    Unless, there's some kernel of truth to the tale that would have people believe it to be true then the answer would be "no." And, without others to reinforce that claim as true, then the answer is "no." And especially those rulers, even if they believed the tale to be true, would not surrender their rule without a fight especially if they had the backing of their people.

    There's an old saying in story telling: the best are those that have a trace of truth to underscore its credibility. And, that wasn't clear enough in the S04E13. I know some people won't believe it but this idea's based on motivation in individual behavior: action or inaction. It ties in nicely with Joseph Campbell's and Maureen Murdock's ideas about the Hero(ine) Archetype. And, if you have any questions about it, you should have access to an excellent resource in Eoin C. Macken, BSc.
  • Options
    Avi8Avi8 Posts: 3,077
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Its come to my attention that someone is taking what i post on here and posing as me (using my forum name) and posting it elsewhere :mad: So therefore i will refrain from posting on here (spoiler wise anyway).

    That's not good lil_miss_blonde :( Your spoilers are the only ones I have faith in.
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 361
    Forum Member
    Its come to my attention that someone is taking what i post on here and posing as me (using my forum name) and posting it elsewhere :mad:

    I'm sorry to hear that. :(

    I don't know anything about your involvement with the production, obviously, but I would like to ask something, if you don't mind. Not about spoilers, but some insider information.

    I'm wondering if the showrunners, producers or anyone in charge know how crap the show's online PR is, especially the use of social media?
    MerlinOfficial which has 600k followers on facebook and almost 40k on twitter is useless most of the time. They barely promote the show, they don't inform the fans about actors appearing at conventions, March came and went and they failed to report the fact that series 5 has begun shooting.:eek:

    This week they finally tweeted the following message:
    Hello #Merlin Fans! As we are only in the early stages of filming Series 5 we can't tweet much news yet for fear of spoilers!

    I'm not a massive fan of Doctor Who, but I come across new on-set pictures of DW every week, and they have already released a teaser trailer for the next series (which also returns in the Autumn). Meanwhile Merlin Official doesn't want to tweet about series 5 for fear of spoilers... :confused: Does this make any sense? Do they have any clue?

    I know Merlin is hugely successfull, so the show is doing fine without proper PR, but their incompetence is simply annoying. :mad:
    I don't know if these accounts are managed by Shine, Fremantle Media or BBC, but I would like to know if anyone's aware of this issue, and if we can hope any improvement.

    Sorry, it's more a rant than a question, and a bit OT. Ignore my post if it's a problem to answer.
  • Options
    MikeAP001MikeAP001 Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Just out of curiosity, did MERLIN ever mention the names of the five kingdoms? Historically, Geoffrey mentioned 4 kingdoms following Bruta named for his general (Corneis) and Bruta's 3 sons: Cornwall, Logeia, Albany, and Cymru. And in SWEET DREAMS, there were two unnamed kings and the three kings were Alined, Olaf, and Uther but the kingdoms were never mentioned. So, does anyone know what are the five kingdoms that formed Albion?
  • Options
    Avi8Avi8 Posts: 3,077
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    MikeAP001 wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, did MERLIN ever mention the names of the five kingdoms? Historically, Geoffrey mentioned 4 kingdoms following Bruta named for his general (Corneis) and Bruta's 3 sons: Cornwall, Logeia, Albany, and Cymru. And in SWEET DREAMS, there were two unnamed kings and the three kings were Alined, Olaf, and Uther but the kingdoms were never mentioned. So, does anyone know what are the five kingdoms that formed Albion?

    Mercia has been mentioned in the tv series....
  • Options
    MikeAP001MikeAP001 Posts: 1,916
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Avi8 wrote: »
    Mercia has been mentioned in the tv series....

    Thanks!

    So, that plus Camelot, Caerleon, and Nemeth means there are four named kingdoms in MERLIN.
  • Options
    CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,412
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    MikeAP001 wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, did MERLIN ever mention the names of the five kingdoms? Historically, Geoffrey mentioned 4 kingdoms following Bruta named for his general (Corneis) and Bruta's 3 sons: Cornwall, Logeia, Albany, and Cymru. And in SWEET DREAMS, there were two unnamed kings and the three kings were Alined, Olaf, and Uther but the kingdoms were never mentioned. So, does anyone know what are the five kingdoms that formed Albion?
    MikeAP001 wrote: »
    Thanks!

    So, that plus Camelot, Caerleon, and Nemeth means there are four named kingdoms in MERLIN.

    Nope, there's far more.

    The TV series doesn't use the same kingdom names as the legends/historical pre-unification British kingdoms. They don't refer to the Five Kingdoms by name at any point and they have also got plenty of other kingdoms which are not included in the Five. In addition, the Five Kingdoms are unified already under Uther, they're not what will form the legendary Kingdom of "Albion".

    So far they have used either in story lines or dialogue or had representatives or characters from - Mercia, Essetir, Nemeth, Deobeth, Gawant, Odin's Kingdom (not given a name), the Perilous Lands, Southron, Gawant, Reghed, Northumbria and Tir-Mor, plus a few others.

    The full list of referenced kingdoms is here:

    Anglia
    Bernicia
    Caerleon (King Caerleon and later Queen Annis ' Kingdom)
    Cambia
    Camelot (Uther Pendragon and later Arthur and Guinevere Pendragon, part of Five Kingdoms. Morgana Pendragon also became a monarch in Camelot twice, albeit for a short period of time)
    Daobeth (Kingdom mentioned by Arthur in a deleted scene, that was once a strong kingdom, until it was brought down by dragons)
    Deira
    Dyffed
    Elmet
    Essetir (Cenred's Kingdom and later, King Lot's Kingdom)
    Gawant (Lord Godwyn's Kingdom)
    Gwynedd
    Gogoddin
    Mercia (King Bayard 's Kingdom)
    Nemeth (Princess Mithian's Kingdom)
    Northumbria (Lord Benedict's Earldom)
    Powys
    The Perilous Lands [(The Fisher King's Kingdom (fallen)]
    Rheged
    Southron (Helios's Kingdom)
    Tír-Mòr
    The House of Tregor's Kingdom [Lady Catrina's Kingdom (fallen)]
    Mora (Isle of Mora)
    King Alined's Kingdom (part of Five Kingdoms)
    King Olaf's Kingdom (part of Five Kingdoms)
    Unidentified King 1 (part of Five Kingdoms)
    Unidentified King 2 (part of Five Kingdoms)
  • Options
    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 361
    Forum Member
    Cadiva wrote: »
    I'm guessing Liam Cunningham's role is as either Hengist or Horsa if they're following the traditional Saxon invaders legends.

    Hengist was the bandit leader in Lancelot and Guinevere (S2E04). I don't think they will use the same name again.
    Cadiva wrote: »
    Daobeth (Kingdom mentioned by Arthur in a deleted scene, that was once a strong kingdom, until it was brought down by dragons)

    Now that we might see...
    the Saxon invaders using Aithusa as a weapon
    ...I'm a bit disappointed they have deleted that scene.
  • Options
    CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,412
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    GBali wrote: »
    URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/merlin/characters/pages/hengist.shtml"]Hengist[/URL] was the bandit leader in Lancelot and Guinevere (S2E04). I don't think they will use the same name again.

    Now that we might see...
    the Saxon invaders using Aithusa as a weapon
    ...I'm a bit disappointed they have deleted that scene.

    Yeah I remembered about them using the name Hengist after I ran out of editing time :) He wasn't a Saxon though so they obviously just decided they liked the name.

    If I remember rightly, he only mentioned the name, there wasn't any visuals of the dragons etc, just saying it was a kingdom which once existed as it were.
  • Options
    Bio MaxBio Max Posts: 2,207
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Cadiva wrote: »
    I think you may end up being disappointed. As I've said before, they've said right from the very start that this isn't a story about Merlin the all powerful warlock that everyone knows about from the legends, it's about the boy/man before he reached that point. If we ever get a magic reveal I don't see it happening until towards the very end of this show's lifetime. It would be a total change in dynamic for the show to have an openly powerful Merlin working in Arthur's court and I'm not sure how that would work in terms of - lets have Merlin just blow up the latest threat to Camelot - instead of the various different types of episode and story line we have at the moment. An openly powerful Merlin makes the whole premise of the show utterly different imho.
    Completely disagree. For me there is no variety at all. We've had 4 series of the same generic stuff some baddie turns up, Merlin has to help defeat him whilst hiding his true powers. (Also some really big baddie will be in the castle, Merlin and Gaius know he is bad but nobody else will towards the end)

    By showing his magic it will allow the story to evolve. We can see how Arthur reacts to the reveal, how their friendship develops and so on. We also won't have the same sneaky battles where Merlin makes sure nobody is watching before he uses magic.

    It would be a total change in dynamic and that's a good thing after 4 series of the same stuff. We don't have various types of storyline at all imo at the moment.

    Don't get me wrong - I love Merlin - but I'm just desperate for the story to advance...
  • Options
    CadivaCadiva Posts: 18,412
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Bio Max wrote: »
    Completely disagree. For me there is no variety at all. We've had 4 series of the same generic stuff some baddie turns up, Merlin has to help defeat him whilst hiding his true powers. (Also some really big baddie will be in the castle, Merlin and Gaius know he is bad but nobody else will towards the end)

    By showing his magic it will allow the story to evolve. We can see how Arthur reacts to the reveal, how their friendship develops and so on. We also won't have the same sneaky battles where Merlin makes sure nobody is watching before he uses magic.

    It would be a total change in dynamic and that's a good thing after 4 series of the same stuff. We don't have various types of storyline at all imo at the moment.

    Don't get me wrong - I love Merlin - but I'm just desperate for the story to advance...

    I guess it depends on what you (generic you not you specifically) determine is the storyline. Yes, of course Merlin's magic remains hidden, that's the basic premise of the whole show. But the story lines themselves have ranged from ones centred on Merlin himself, to those about Arthur, Morgana, Uther, Gwen, the Knights, Gaius etc.
    I don't think anyone could claim that the story line of the Valiant episode is anything like the story line of The Beginning of the End or The Witchfinder being anything like Goblin's Gold etc.
    As I said, yes Merlin keeps his magic hidden, with the exception of Lancelot, but that's been the show's "hook" since the very beginning and the producers have been very clear about that throughout.
  • Options
    lil_miss_blondelil_miss_blonde Posts: 9,090
    Forum Member
    GBali wrote: »
    I'm sorry to hear that. :(

    I don't know anything about your involvement with the production, obviously, but I would like to ask something, if you don't mind. Not about spoilers, but some insider information.

    I'm wondering if the showrunners, producers or anyone in charge know how crap the show's online PR is, especially the use of social media?
    MerlinOfficial which has 600k followers on facebook and almost 40k on twitter is useless most of the time. They barely promote the show, they don't inform the fans about actors appearing at conventions, March came and went and they failed to report the fact that series 5 has begun shooting.:eek:

    This week they finally tweeted the following message:



    I'm not a massive fan of Doctor Who, but I come across new on-set pictures of DW every week, and they have already released a teaser trailer for the next series (which also returns in the Autumn). Meanwhile Merlin Official doesn't want to tweet about series 5 for fear of spoilers... :confused: Does this make any sense? Do they have any clue?

    I know Merlin is hugely successfull, so the show is doing fine without proper PR, but their incompetence is simply annoying. :mad:
    I don't know if these accounts are managed by Shine, Fremantle Media or BBC, but I would like to know if anyone's aware of this issue, and if we can hope any improvement.

    Sorry, it's more a rant than a question, and a bit OT. Ignore my post if it's a problem to answer.

    I'm afraid I have no idea. All I can guess is they want to keep everything a secret. Most things get leaked when they film over in France because the fans upload all the photos.
This discussion has been closed.