Is it wrong for a man not giving up a seat to a woman

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 517
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    BenRielly wrote: »
    Oh dear.

    It's not about entitlement or sexism or equality - It's good manners. I would give up my seat to a female, I also hold doors open for them - Increasing my speed slightly when necessary to get to the door slightly ahead of them to be able to open it. Whenever Mrs Reilly and I go out in the car together I hold open the car door for her before going round to my side.

    I don't do it for any reason of assumed superiority but because I believe that a little courtesy never hurts anybody and it makes people happy to know that not everybody in the world is only thinking about themseleves all the time.

    Mind I never use sweary words in company either, so perhaps there's just something wrong with me.

    I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with you, you just seem to be living in 1943, that's all. If you single out women for your courtesies then of course it's about sexism and equality.

    OP - I'm a woman and unless she was heavily pregnant, was disabled in some way or had some obvious other greater need for a seat then tough luck, she just wasn't quick enough. However, she may have been approaching the seat before you saw it and had it snatched away from her because of your undue haste, in which case that could be perceived as rude.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 176
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    gashead wrote: »
    I don't think there's anything wrong with you and your behaviour does you credit, however I do have one question. You say it's done not out of any assumed superiority, and I believe you, but purely out of courtesy. My question is: do you hold doors and give up seats for men too?

    Thank you.

    I don't 'race' to the door in quite the same manner for men, but I do open the door for them and will hold it open and wait if I see them heading my way.

    The seat issues is less definite. It's more of a judgement call depending upon the individuals 'ability' to stand and whether I would be more able to manage the journey standing than they would.

    I know, it's all a bit inconsistant really isn't it?
  • towerstowers Posts: 12,183
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    jorrai wrote: »
    I NEVER give up my seat, young, old, male, female, able bodied, disabled, sod it, my seat my rules! Want to be treated the same as everyone else? Then take the crap everyone else has to.

    I agree that men shouldn't have to give up their seat for women in general - and I'm a woman BTW - but it's only polite to give up your seat for a very elderly person or a woman who's clearly pregnant.

    One day, it'll be YOU who's elderly and in need of a seat and it'll be YOU who's complaining about the younger generation having a lack of manners. You clearly lack empathy.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    Kevinlad wrote: »
    I'm not talking about those with physical needs, but normal healthy women. I walked in the train this morning, saw one empty seat and walked quickly to get it. When I sat down I saw a woman next to me saying "Oh thank you, thank you very much". Looks like she was also chasing that seat. If she didn't make that comment I could have given her that seat.

    So am I doing anything wrong?

    If she was nearer to the seat then why rush to it for? What did you expect her to say?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 176
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    Fred Green wrote: »
    I wouldn't say there's anything wrong with you, you just seem to be living in 1943, that's all. If you single out women for your courtesies then of course it's about sexism and equality.

    OP - I'm a woman and unless she was heavily pregnant, was disabled in some way or had some obvious other greater need for a seat then tough luck, she just wasn't quick enough. However, she may have been approaching the seat before you saw it and had it snatched away from her because of your undue haste, in which case that could be perceived as rude.

    If others percieve it to be about sexism and an implied lack of equality, then I apologise. But then I would, because I'm polite and do that sort of thing when I inadvertantly cause offence.

    As a woman, do you actually prefer not to have these little courtesies and signs of respect? If there is no intent behind such gestures, then why not accept them for the simple show of manners that they are?

    Actually, I would have preferred to have lived in the 40/50's - I could have worn hats then, too.
  • Manly BarrilowManly Barrilow Posts: 1,045
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    Isn't pregnancy a self-inflicted disablity? And should be treated as such.
  • MarieHMarieH Posts: 1,016
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    I agree that you should not give up seats for women, but its not very nice to beat them to it if they were closer male or female.
    People do it on cash machines too, almost knock you down as they barge past to get there first. Now thats rude!
  • PictoPicto Posts: 24,270
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    zx50 wrote: »
    If she was nearer to the seat then why rush to it for? What did you expect her to say?

    The OP doesn't make it clear if she was nearer the seat or not.

    I remember when I broke my leg a few men gave their seats up for me but not one single woman did.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    towers wrote: »
    I agree that men shouldn't have to give up their seat for women in general - and I'm a woman BTW - but it's only polite to give up your seat for a very elderly person or a woman who's clearly pregnant.

    One day, it'll be YOU who's elderly and in need of a seat and it'll be YOU who's complaining about the younger generation having a lack of manners. You clearly lack empathy.

    Exactly! One day these people who refuse to give up their seat for ANYONE will need a seat when THEY'RE old, but because someone's repeating the actions they once had, they'll be suffering because they're forced to stand.
  • ~Twinkle~~Twinkle~ Posts: 8,165
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    Kevinlad wrote: »
    I'm not talking about those with physical needs, but normal healthy women. I walked in the train this morning, saw one empty seat and walked quickly to get it. When I sat down I saw a woman next to me saying "Oh thank you, thank you very much". Looks like she was also chasing that seat. If she didn't make that comment I could have given her that seat.

    So am I doing anything wrong?

    You did no wrong at all. Chivalry died years ago thanks to the women's libbers brigade, had you done so you'd probably have been given a mouthful of abuse about equality.

    If I had my way I'd put these stupid females into the stocks and chuck rotten tomatoes at them, I'm a woman - all woman - and I enjoy being treated as such but the minority spoiled it for the rest of us. Oh well.

    Sleep soundly, OP, you did the right thing.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    Picto wrote: »
    The OP doesn't make it clear if she was nearer the seat or not.

    I remember when I broke my leg a few men gave their seats up for me but not one single woman did.

    IF she was then. I always give my seat to a woman.
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    BenRielly wrote: »
    Oh dear.

    It's not about entitlement or sexism or equality - It's good manners. I would give up my seat to a female, I also hold doors open for them - Increasing my speed slightly when necessary to get to the door slightly ahead of them to be able to open it. Whenever Mrs Reilly and I go out in the car together I hold open the car door for her before going round to my side.

    I don't do it for any reason of assumed superiority but because I believe that a little courtesy never hurts anybody and it makes people happy to know that not everybody in the world is only thinking about themseleves all the time.

    Mind I never use sweary words in company either, so perhaps there's just something wrong with me.

    Nothing wrong with good manners and thank you in advance if I should ever be following you through a door.
  • leopard_printleopard_print Posts: 1,403
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    Only people I (as a young female) would give up seats for are disabled or elderly people. If I see elderly people standing then I will offer my seat. I don't expect a man to offer me a seat just because I'm female and think very little of women who would expect a man to do this. Its lovely if a man does offer and a rare thing seen these days however.

    In the situation for the OP she was probably grumpy you'd beat her to it!
  • JELLIES0JELLIES0 Posts: 6,709
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    no mate you didnt do owt wrong, sounds like she was a stupid cow with a chip on her shoulder, should ave told her to **** off

    It's the same old story mate. A man's place is in the wrong.
    My point of view is I give up my place for the old and infirm and that's it.
    I find with younger and middle aged women you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
  • Manly BarrilowManly Barrilow Posts: 1,045
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    BenRielly wrote: »
    If others percieve it to be about sexism and an implied lack of equality, then I apologise. But then I would, because I'm polite and do that sort of thing when I inadvertantly cause offence.

    As a woman, do you actually prefer not to have these little courtesies and signs of respect? If there is no intent behind such gestures, then why not accept them for the simple show of manners that they are?

    Actually, I would have preferred to have lived in the 40/50's - I could have worn hats then, too.

    And the other side, don't you think that you are being very condescending towards women? Who are you to think that women require your little displays of outdated sexism?

    You obviously see woman as something different to me and that you have to show them respect for no other reason than they are female.

    Should they be jumping through hoops or something because you haven't moved with the times.

    Woman are capable of looking after themselves and earn respect just like anyone else. - It is very rude for you to treat them like they are not.

    It's actually very bad manners for you to treat them like they were treated as little women for the 50s.

    Women swear and do not require anyone's help and it's patronising to think otherwise.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    BenRielly wrote: »
    Oh dear.

    It's not about entitlement or sexism or equality - It's good manners. I would give up my seat to a female, I also hold doors open for them - Increasing my speed slightly when necessary to get to the door slightly ahead of them to be able to open it. Whenever Mrs Reilly and I go out in the car together I hold open the car door for her before going round to my side.

    I don't do it for any reason of assumed superiority but because I believe that a little courtesy never hurts anybody and it makes people happy to know that not everybody in the world is only thinking about themseleves all the time.

    Mind I never use sweary words in company either, so perhaps there's just something wrong with me.

    Good way of thinking.
  • Hugh JboobsHugh Jboobs Posts: 15,316
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    Isn't pregnancy a self-inflicted disablity? And should be treated as such.

    Lots of disabilities could be self inflicted.

    How do you know, for example, that the person in the wheelchair didn't become paralysed by getting pissed and falling off a rooftop?

    How do you know that the blind person didn't lose their sight by pouring acid into their eyes for a dare?

    People who aren't able bodied, for whatever reason, should always be treated with a bit of extra courtesy. It isn't difficult.
  • stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
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    Kevinlad wrote: »
    I'm not talking about those with physical needs, but normal healthy women. I walked in the train this morning, saw one empty seat and walked quickly to get it. When I sat down I saw a woman next to me saying "Oh thank you, thank you very much". Looks like she was also chasing that seat. If she didn't make that comment I could have given her that seat.

    So am I doing anything wrong?

    Rather sexist these days to give a seat up to a woman as women want equality,

    An old one or one up the duff I would as I don't want any accidents, but young ones can stand or go upstairs.

    The younger ones always seem to go upstairs any way.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    Isn't pregnancy a self-inflicted disablity? And should be treated as such.

    What if they'd been raped and decided to keep the child?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    Slightly Off Topic, but you know on some busses, at the front there is a section of prams. The other day an old lady was sat in the seats that fold up for prams, and then a mother got on and the old lady was kicking right off for having to move!! What?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 517
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    BenRielly wrote: »
    If others percieve it to be about sexism and an implied lack of equality, then I apologise. But then I would, because I'm polite and do that sort of thing when I inadvertantly cause offence.

    As a woman, do you actually prefer not to have these little courtesies and signs of respect? If there is no intent behind such gestures, then why not accept them for the simple show of manners that they are?

    Actually, I would have preferred to have lived in the 40/50's - I could have worn hats then, too.

    I would prefer not to be singled out for such actions if the man doing so is only doing it because I'm a woman. However, since the men doing it are strangers to me then I don't know if they are doing it because I'm a woman or not, so it's a moot point really.

    However, I'm pleased I don't know any men who behave like that because I find it condescending and slightly annoying. If you are polite then hold a door open for everyone, man or woman. If you don't hold doors open for men too then you're not as courteous as you believe yourself to be.

    Back to the issue of seats. If I happen upon a seat at the same time as someone else then I usually offer it to them whether man, woman or indeterminate. Older men have the most problems accepting this gesture of politeness, I find! :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 176
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    And the other side, don't you think that you are being very condescending towards women? Who are you to think that women require your little displays of outdated sexism?

    You obviously see woman as something different to me and that you have to show them respect for no other reason than they are female.

    Should they be jumping through hoops or something because you haven't moved with the times.

    Woman are capable of looking after themselves and earn respect just like anyone else. - It is very rude for you to treat them like they are not.

    It's actually very bad manners for you to treat them like they were treated as little women for the 50s.

    Women swear and do not require anyone's help and it's patronising to think otherwise.

    Without wishing to get into an arguement about a mere difference of opinion, I'm rather glad that I do see women as something different to you.

    I don't expect them to jump through any hoops and indeed have any reaction other than perhaps a "Thank you". My behaviour in no way indictes that I think they are any less capable of anything than I am. Indeed, many of my female friends are far more intelligent and gifted than I am - I'm well aware of their 'superiority' over me in many areas.

    However, I do what I do because I believe that it is the correct way to behave. It's my own code of conduct and simply the way that I am. It is not intended to belittle anybody and if people are offended; well I'd sooner that they were upset by my being overly attentive and polite than the alternative.
  • zx50zx50 Posts: 91,229
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    Slightly Off Topic, but you know on some busses, at the front there is a section of prams. The other day an old lady was sat in the seats that fold up for prams, and then a mother got on and the old lady was kicking right off for having to move!! What?

    That's what I'd call being selfish. I'd have just explained to her politely that the section she was in was for prams/buggys. I'd then just let her chant on if she started going on.
  • purplelinuspurplelinus Posts: 1,515
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    Isn't pregnancy a self-inflicted disablity? And should be treated as such.

    A very dear friend of mine suffered a miscarriage late on in pregnancy. The day before she was standing on a train which broke suddenly sending her and her bump flying into the divider near the train doors......

    For me it's not they need to sit (although they actually do) it's a safety thing. I was commuting from London when 8 months pregnant and gave my seat up for an old man that could barely stand, I stood all the way home as his need for a seat was greater than mine but my back bloody ached all night and I couldn't sleep!

    I'm with the others, shouldn't just give your seat up for a woman, anyone in greater need is the correct way to go.
  • stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
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    zx50 wrote: »
    That's what I'd call being selfish. I'd have just explained to her politely that the section she was in was for prams/buggys. I'd then just let her chant on if she started going on.

    In my East Kent bus area, the pram area is only allowed if there are no disabled people about. If there are disabled or elderly people then they have to fold the prams up.
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