If Peter Davison had done season 22, is there any evidence he wouldn't have been stuck with Attack of the Cybermen and Timelash? It still would have been a problematic season.
Pip n' Jane were there purely as they could construct workable scripts quickly and efficiently. In The Ultimate Foe & Time and the Rani's case it really didn't matter that they were rubbish, they needed something to film immediately.
You're probably right, the stories would have stayed the same if Davison had stayed another Season. What the difference would be with them is that they would be considerably less violent due to Davison's Doctor being more passive as I've said previously.
I also think the stories would have stayed in it's weekly timeslot on a Mon, Tues etc rather than back to it's traditional Saturday one and also would have still been at it's usual 25 minute runtime, hence making most of them 4 parters. The Two Doctors may even have become a four parter as well.
Again this is just speculation, it may very well have run as it was with Davison there, but I'm just wondering if the change in Season 22 was made to accommodate the New Doctor, just as they did with Tom Baker's Doctor when they shifted the Series from a Jan to Sept start after his first Season.
You're probably right, the stories would have stayed the same if Davison had stayed another Season. What the difference would be with them is that they would be considerably less violent due to Davison's Doctor being more passive as I've said previously.
I don't think that the stories would have been "less violent" (although I don't think Season 22 is) as Saward was quite keen on the "gritty action/adventure" approach, as seen in Resurrection and Androzani. Obviously, the Fifth Doctor would have reacted differently to certain situations!
I also think the stories would have stayed in it's weekly timeslot on a Mon, Tues etc rather than back to it's traditional Saturday one and also would have still been at it's usual 25 minute runtime, hence making most of them 4 parters. The Two Doctors may even have become a four parter as well.
Again this is just speculation, it may very well have run as it was with Davison there, but I'm just wondering if the change in Season 22 was made to accommodate the New Doctor, just as they did with Tom Baker's Doctor when they shifted the Series from a Jan to Sept start after his first Season.
Season 22 was always planned to broadcast in 45 minute episodes.
I don't think that the stories would have been "less violent" (although I don't think Season 22 is) as Saward was quite keen on the "gritty action/adventure" approach, as seen in Resurrection and Androzani. Obviously, the Fifth Doctor would have reacted differently to certain situations!
Season 22 was always planned to broadcast in 45 minute episodes.
The thing is, a lot of the violence in Season 22 was committed by The Doctor himself. Like shooting the Cyberleader, his killing of those two mutant chaps on Varos with poisonous vines plus his accidental throwing of two guards into an acid pool. Then there was the killing of Shockeye in the Two Doctors. I don't think Davison's Doctor would have done any of that(though possibly he may have killed the Cyberleader but with a lot less gusto) so that's why I think there would have been 'less' violence because as you say, his Doctor would have reacted differently to these things.
It would also have been interesting to see how Davison would have fared in a 45 minute episode format and how it would affected his Doctor. A lot less running down corridors I suspect!
The thing is, a lot of the violence in Season 22 was committed by The Doctor himself. Like shooting the Cyberleader, his killing of those two mutant chaps on Varos with poisonous vines plus his accidental throwing of two guards into an acid pool. Then there was the killing of Shockeye in the Two Doctors. I don't think Davison's Doctor would have done any of that(though possibly he may have killed the Cyberleader but with a lot less gusto) so that's why I think there would have been 'less' violence because as you say, his Doctor would have reacted differently to these things.
It would also have been interesting to see how Davison would have fared in a 45 minute episode format and how it would affected his Doctor. A lot less running down corridors I suspect!
To be honest, Davision was lucky to have got out when he did. His tenure was heralded as successful, and he left with his Doctor's Image untarnished. When Colin took over, the series started to fall in popularity, The new Doctor was more overly violent. Then Grade was controller and wanted to axe the series....it couldn't get any worse. Least Davision went out with The Caves of Androzani, Colin went out saying 'carrot juice,carrot juice, carrot juice'....
To be honest, Davision was lucky to have got out when he did. His tenure was heralded as successful, and he left with his Doctor's Image untarnished. When Colin took over, the series started to fall in popularity, The new Doctor was more overly violent. Then Grade was controller and wanted to axe the series....it couldn't get any worse. Least Davision went out with The Caves of Androzani, Colin went out saying 'carrot juice,carrot juice, carrot juice'....
To be fair to Colin Baker, it's not exactly his fault that those were his last words. Aside from the fact it wasn't even the last scene or story he filmed, the fact he got sacked does sort of mean he can't really have had the opportunity to choose his final words.
In fact, to take this discussion in a slightly different direction, what does anyone think would have made a proper send of for the Sixth Doctor if he'd had a proper swansong? I can sort of imagine that his final words being all Clarke Gable. 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn', in line with his opening words in The Caves Of Androzani.
I don't think there would have been any blubbing into a regeneration with this Doctor. I think he would have probably died as a result of some noble and heroic deed. Had he left after Season 22, it probably would have been violent but as it had been toned down in Season 23, it may well have been a bout of First Doctor style fisticuffs!
To be fair to Colin Baker, it's not exactly his fault that those were his last words. Aside from the fact it wasn't even the last scene or story he filmed, the fact he got sacked does sort of mean he can't really have had the opportunity to choose his final words.
In fact, to take this discussion in a slightly different direction, what does anyone think would have made a proper send of for the Sixth Doctor if he'd had a proper swansong? I can sort of imagine that his final words being all Clarke Gable. 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn', in line with his opening words in The Caves Of Androzani.
I don't think there would have been any blubbing into a regeneration with this Doctor. I think he would have probably died as a result of some noble and heroic deed. Had he left after Season 22, it probably would have been violent but as it had been toned down in Season 23, it may well have been a bout of First Doctor style fisticuffs!
How about 'Well, I think that went quite well, how about you?'
The problem with regeneration now, is that back then it wasn't the explosive exciting experience we get to day, with an amazing crescendo of orchestral music. Apart from T Baker, there wasn't really any amazing parting dialogue!
How about 'Well, I think that went quite well, how about you?'
The problem with regeneration now, is that back then it wasn't the explosive exciting experience we get to day, with an amazing crescendo of orchestral music. Apart from T Baker, there wasn't really any amazing parting dialogue!
What about Pertwee? 'Tear, Sarah Jane? Where's there's life, there's.....'
I've said this before but the Pertwee/Baker regeneration has just as much impact as the Tennant/Smith one. The lack of music in it is just as devastating with that odd silence that accompanied the scene.
I thought Davison's could have been a bit better but considering his eyeline at the time, I think he may have been distracted!
Good line you suggested for CB though and that would have been a nice touch and reference back to his last line in Attack Of The Cybermen where he stated it didn't go very well, meaning he as an incarnation had improved.
What about Pertwee? 'Tear, Sarah Jane? Where's there's life, there's.....'
I've said this before but the Pertwee/Baker regeneration has just as much impact as the Tennant/Smith one. The lack of music in it is just as devastating with that odd silence that accompanied the scene.
I thought Davison's could have been a bit better but considering his eyeline at the time, I think he may have been distracted!
Good line you suggested for CB though and that would have been a nice touch and reference back to his last line in Attack Of The Cybermen where he stated it didn't go very well, meaning he as an incarnation had improved.
Oh I agree about the JP line, it was just ruined by the time it took to regenerate following it!
The thing is, a lot of the violence in Season 22 was committed by The Doctor himself. Like shooting the Cyberleader, his killing of those two mutant chaps on Varos with poisonous vines plus his accidental throwing of two guards into an acid pool. Then there was the killing of Shockeye in the Two Doctors. I don't think Davison's Doctor would have done any of that(though possibly he may have killed the Cyberleader but with a lot less gusto) so that's why I think there would have been 'less' violence because as you say, his Doctor would have reacted differently to these things.
It would also have been interesting to see how Davison would have fared in a 45 minute episode format and how it would affected his Doctor. A lot less running down corridors I suspect!
The stories wouldnt of made a difference. They would of still happenned as they were except for the post regen scenes. The violence wasent specifically written for Colin so we would of seen davison acting the same way.
The stories wouldnt of made a difference. They would of still happenned as they were except for the post regen scenes. The violence wasent specifically written for Colin so we would of seen davison acting the same way.
I'm seriously going to disagree with you here. There is no way the Fifth Doctor would have used those vines to kill those men on Varos and there's also no way he would have killed Shockeye in the way the Sixth Doctor did. Considering he tried to get Tegan to revive a Silurian in the previous Season, I just don't think he would have done it. You saw his pacifist nature in that Silurian story and the most violent he got was a few fights here and there, usually very short and not always with him winning.
The Sixth Doctor was supposed to be a total contrast from the Fifth in terms of character and that's just what he was.
I'm seriously going to disagree with you here. There is no way the Fifth Doctor would have used those vines to kill those men on Varos and there's also no way he would have killed Shockeye in the way the Sixth Doctor did. Considering he tried to get Tegan to revive a Silurian in the previous Season, I just don't think he would have done it. You saw his pacifist nature in that Silurian story and the most violent he got was a few fights here and there, usually very short and not always with him winning.
The Sixth Doctor was supposed to be a total contrast from the Fifth in terms of character and that's just what he was.
Those episodes would of been written regardless. They could of easily used some story to explain the 5th behaviour. I mean just look at how off the 5th doctor was in the final 2 stories.
Killing Khameleon and watching the master supposedly die instead of saving him.
Not sure why you say the 5th isnt violent I mean look how he brutally killed that Cyberman in Earthshock.
Those episodes would of been written regardless. They could of easily used some story to explain the 5th behaviour. I mean just look at how off the 5th doctor was in the final 2 stories.
Killing Khameleon and watching the master supposedly die instead of saving him.
Not sure why you say the 5th isnt violent I mean look how he brutally killed that Cyberman in Earthshock.
I would say all The Doctors have been violent to a degree and some of them have killed for the greater good. With Colin Baker's Doctor it was the a real big degree of violence. I would say there was a big difference in the way Kamelion was killed and Shockeye. Kamelion was a machine for a start who actually begged to be destroyed. The Master, there were no hands on approach here, The Doctor didn't strangle him or shoot him with a gun and his reaction to The Master burning was one of remorse. Did you see the Sixth Doctor actually show remorse for killing Shockeye or those Men on Varos he killed with the vines? No.
The violence the Sixth Doctor displayed in Season 22 was virtually bordering on unrestrained. The killing of Shockeye is probably the most brutal killing The Doctor has seen to commit in it's entire history because of it's savagery. For me there is a big difference between putting a net over someone's head and suffocating them with handkerchief soaked in cyanide than simply shooting down a Cyberman with a blaster. It comes down to what is acceptable violence in the show, and I think the examples you describe above, though true, are of a far lesser degree to what happened in Season 22.
So yes, I think I can accept The Fifth Doctor was capable of being violent but like his predecessors, it was acceptable violence limited to a family audience. Season 22 went beyond that and that's why I do think some of it was written for Colin Baker's Doctor and genuinely do believe the Fifth Doctor wouldn't have killed Shockeye in that way. And I definitely don't think killing those men deliberately with poisonous vines would have happened either, that simply was not The Fifth Doctor's way. If he could have found a way round doing that, he would.
I would say all The Doctors have been violent to a degree and some of them have killed for the greater good. With Colin Baker's Doctor it was the a real big degree of violence.
The violence the Sixth Doctor displayed in Season 22 was virtually bordering on unrestrained. The killing of Shockeye is probably the most brutal killing The Doctor has seen to commit in it's entire history because of it's savagery.
I think you're exaggerating massively. You're portraying the Sixth Doctor as a raving madman. I'd have thought you'd have more fondness for the incarnation who travelled with both your favourite companions.
I completely agree about the murder of Shockeye. It's a betrayal of the character of the Doctor. Unjustifiable brutality which goes against everything the Doctor stands for. The actual scene - like most notorious media representations of death - is actually very tame, though. Something like the shooting of Condo in The Brain of Morbius, complete with spurting blood - yer actual red, not something safe in a shade of green, is a vastly more visceral lunge of Whitehouse-baiting teatime terror. As I lay the blame for the state the series fell into in the 80s at the feet of Eric Saward, I have also decided that he misguidedly crow-barred this scene into The Two Doctors rather than Robert Holmes, who's my favourite script writer.
Of course, I may be wrong. It had to happen eventually.
There isn't much evidence to label the Sixth Doctor as any more murderous than most of the other Doctors. When I watched the Day of the Daleks SE a few months ago - you'll remember me posting about it because I know you hang on my every word - I was actually shocked to see the Third Doctor zap an Ogron with a space gun. The big oaf was about 40' away and clearly a touch "slow", even for an Ogron. I think it was even looking the other way. Whatever, the dandy disintegrated it without mercy.
The Tenth Doctor murders the baby Racnoss and hangs around to savour the grief of their hysterical mother. The Seventh Doctor, cold in the face of Davros' scream for pity, destroys the planet Skaro but can he have been sure that there weren't a few Thals there, back on a peaceful sightseeing tour of places of historical interest? The Fifth Doctor decides that "time can be rewritten" in six incarnations' time, thank you very much, and lets Adric get a closer look at the dinosaurs. The Sixth Doctor goes apesh*t with vionesium and massacres the Vervoids, committing genocide, so I really have to... oh, pants, ignore that last one.
Lots of Cybermen and Daleks have been killed by various Doctors. They may be monsters and thus deserve to die but they're still living beings. That Cyberman over there could have the brain of someone's granny. Or Granny, if Cybermen weren't teetotal.
The Ninth Doctor really had it in for the Daleks. They all burned and he "watched it happen". Better yet, he "made it happen". House, who eats TARDISes for breakfast, suggests that the Eleventh Doctor fear him as he's killed "hundreds of Time Lords". That's nothing - the Doctor replies, "Fear me. I've killed all of them." His own people! Romana! K9?The monster! :eek:
I think you're exaggerating massively. You're portraying the Sixth Doctor as a raving madman. I'd have thought you'd have more fondness for the incarnation who travelled with both your favourite companions.
I completely agree about the murder of Shockeye. It's a betrayal of the character of the Doctor. Unjustifiable brutality which goes against everything the Doctor stands for. The actual scene - like most notorious media representations of death - is actually very tame, though. Something like the shooting of Condo in The Brain of Morbius, complete with spurting blood - yer actual red, not something safe in a shade of green, is a vastly more visceral lunge of Whitehouse-baiting teatime terror. As I lay the blame for the state the series fell into in the 80s at the feet of Eric Saward, I have also decided that he misguidedly crow-barred this scene into The Two Doctors rather than Robert Holmes, who's my favourite script writer.
Of course, I may be wrong. It had to happen eventually.
There isn't much evidence to label the Sixth Doctor as any more murderous than most of the other Doctors. When I watched the Day of the Daleks SE a few months ago - you'll remember me posting about it because I know you hang on my every word - I was actually shocked to see the Third Doctor zap an Ogron with a space gun. The big oaf was about 40' away and clearly a touch "slow", even for an Ogron. I think it was even looking the other way. Whatever, the dandy disintegrated it without mercy.
The Tenth Doctor murders the baby Racnoss and hangs around to savour the grief of their hysterical mother. The Seventh Doctor, cold in the face of Davros' scream for pity, destroys the planet Skaro but can he have been sure that there weren't a few Thals there, back on a peaceful sightseeing tour of places of historical interest? The Fifth Doctor decides that "time can be rewritten" in six incarnations' time, thank you very much, and lets Adric get a closer look at the dinosaurs. The Sixth Doctor goes apesh*t with vionesium and massacres the Vervoids, committing genocide, so I really have to... oh, pants, ignore that last one.
Lots of Cybermen and Daleks have been killed by various Doctors. They may be monsters and thus deserve to die but they're still living beings. That Cyberman over there could have the brain of someone's granny. Or Granny, if Cybermen weren't teetotal.
The Ninth Doctor really had it in for the Daleks. They all burned and he "watched it happen". Better yet, he "made it happen". House, who eats TARDISes for breakfast, suggests that the Eleventh Doctor fear him as he's killed "hundreds of Time Lords". That's nothing - the Doctor replies, "Fear me. I've killed all of them." His own people! Romana! K9?The monster! :eek:
I'm not having a pop at the 6th Doctor at all to be fair. The discussion was, would The Fifth Doctor do exactly the same as the Sixth in Season 22 and my firm opinion is that he wouldn't, I really do believe that. I'm not saying that I'm right or anyone else is wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have watched The Fifth Doctor enough to know how I think he would have reacted in certain situations in those stories. And you know I love the Sixth Doctor and have stuck up for him and the actor who played him many a time!
If I can quote from the Sixth Doctor handbook, they write something in it which I was to trying to say and I hope it makes sense of what I said last post and at the same time backs up what you have been saying as well:
The Sixth Doctor's use of force was not an entirely unprecedented departure from established characterisation. The issue was one of degree
That's sort of what I said in my last post. What is acceptable violence in Doctor Who? Remember The Doctor's drowning in The Deadly Assassin and how much fuss was made about that and how much Leela got slated for using a knife? You mentioned Cordo in The Brain Of Morbius, which is also the sort of violence I referred to. As I said previously, there is a world of difference between someone getting stabbed in the stomach and pushing a Dalek outside of a window. It's the more realistic violence like stabbing, strangling and suffocating someone to death that offends people. This is what started happening in Season 22 but it got taken to an extreme level with that type of violence.
Despite all the bad things The Doctor has done in the New series I don't think you'll ever see him stab or strangle anyone and there certainly won't be another companion with a knife.
I would say all The Doctors have been violent to a degree and some of them have killed for the greater good. With Colin Baker's Doctor it was the a real big degree of violence. I would say there was a big difference in the way Kamelion was killed and Shockeye. Kamelion was a machine for a start who actually begged to be destroyed. The Master, there were no hands on approach here, The Doctor didn't strangle him or shoot him with a gun and his reaction to The Master burning was one of remorse. Did you see the Sixth Doctor actually show remorse for killing Shockeye or those Men on Varos he killed with the vines? No.
The violence the Sixth Doctor displayed in Season 22 was virtually bordering on unrestrained. The killing of Shockeye is probably the most brutal killing The Doctor has seen to commit in it's entire history because of it's savagery. For me there is a big difference between putting a net over someone's head and suffocating them with handkerchief soaked in cyanide than simply shooting down a Cyberman with a blaster. It comes down to what is acceptable violence in the show, and I think the examples you describe above, though true, are of a far lesser degree to what happened in Season 22.
So yes, I think I can accept The Fifth Doctor was capable of being violent but like his predecessors, it was acceptable violence limited to a family audience. Season 22 went beyond that and that's why I do think some of it was written for Colin Baker's Doctor and genuinely do believe the Fifth Doctor wouldn't have killed Shockeye in that way. And I definitely don't think killing those men deliberately with poisonous vines would have happened either, that simply was not The Fifth Doctor's way. If he could have found a way round doing that, he would.
It only occured to me later in life how how cold the 7th Doctor was. Yet as a 7 rd old never picked up on it.
Comments
You're probably right, the stories would have stayed the same if Davison had stayed another Season. What the difference would be with them is that they would be considerably less violent due to Davison's Doctor being more passive as I've said previously.
I also think the stories would have stayed in it's weekly timeslot on a Mon, Tues etc rather than back to it's traditional Saturday one and also would have still been at it's usual 25 minute runtime, hence making most of them 4 parters. The Two Doctors may even have become a four parter as well.
Again this is just speculation, it may very well have run as it was with Davison there, but I'm just wondering if the change in Season 22 was made to accommodate the New Doctor, just as they did with Tom Baker's Doctor when they shifted the Series from a Jan to Sept start after his first Season.
I don't think that the stories would have been "less violent" (although I don't think Season 22 is) as Saward was quite keen on the "gritty action/adventure" approach, as seen in Resurrection and Androzani. Obviously, the Fifth Doctor would have reacted differently to certain situations!
Season 22 was always planned to broadcast in 45 minute episodes.
The thing is, a lot of the violence in Season 22 was committed by The Doctor himself. Like shooting the Cyberleader, his killing of those two mutant chaps on Varos with poisonous vines plus his accidental throwing of two guards into an acid pool. Then there was the killing of Shockeye in the Two Doctors. I don't think Davison's Doctor would have done any of that(though possibly he may have killed the Cyberleader but with a lot less gusto) so that's why I think there would have been 'less' violence because as you say, his Doctor would have reacted differently to these things.
It would also have been interesting to see how Davison would have fared in a 45 minute episode format and how it would affected his Doctor. A lot less running down corridors I suspect!
To be fair to Colin Baker, it's not exactly his fault that those were his last words. Aside from the fact it wasn't even the last scene or story he filmed, the fact he got sacked does sort of mean he can't really have had the opportunity to choose his final words.
In fact, to take this discussion in a slightly different direction, what does anyone think would have made a proper send of for the Sixth Doctor if he'd had a proper swansong? I can sort of imagine that his final words being all Clarke Gable. 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn', in line with his opening words in The Caves Of Androzani.
I don't think there would have been any blubbing into a regeneration with this Doctor. I think he would have probably died as a result of some noble and heroic deed. Had he left after Season 22, it probably would have been violent but as it had been toned down in Season 23, it may well have been a bout of First Doctor style fisticuffs!
How about 'Well, I think that went quite well, how about you?'
The problem with regeneration now, is that back then it wasn't the explosive exciting experience we get to day, with an amazing crescendo of orchestral music. Apart from T Baker, there wasn't really any amazing parting dialogue!
What about Pertwee? 'Tear, Sarah Jane? Where's there's life, there's.....'
I've said this before but the Pertwee/Baker regeneration has just as much impact as the Tennant/Smith one. The lack of music in it is just as devastating with that odd silence that accompanied the scene.
I thought Davison's could have been a bit better but considering his eyeline at the time, I think he may have been distracted!
Good line you suggested for CB though and that would have been a nice touch and reference back to his last line in Attack Of The Cybermen where he stated it didn't go very well, meaning he as an incarnation had improved.
Oh I agree about the JP line, it was just ruined by the time it took to regenerate following it!
Compared to the 20 plus minutes it took Tennant to finally regenerate I'd say it was a picnic with Pertwee and I thought it was about right.
Touche!;):)
The stories wouldnt of made a difference. They would of still happenned as they were except for the post regen scenes. The violence wasent specifically written for Colin so we would of seen davison acting the same way.
I'm seriously going to disagree with you here. There is no way the Fifth Doctor would have used those vines to kill those men on Varos and there's also no way he would have killed Shockeye in the way the Sixth Doctor did. Considering he tried to get Tegan to revive a Silurian in the previous Season, I just don't think he would have done it. You saw his pacifist nature in that Silurian story and the most violent he got was a few fights here and there, usually very short and not always with him winning.
The Sixth Doctor was supposed to be a total contrast from the Fifth in terms of character and that's just what he was.
Those episodes would of been written regardless. They could of easily used some story to explain the 5th behaviour. I mean just look at how off the 5th doctor was in the final 2 stories.
Killing Khameleon and watching the master supposedly die instead of saving him.
Not sure why you say the 5th isnt violent I mean look how he brutally killed that Cyberman in Earthshock.
I would say all The Doctors have been violent to a degree and some of them have killed for the greater good. With Colin Baker's Doctor it was the a real big degree of violence. I would say there was a big difference in the way Kamelion was killed and Shockeye. Kamelion was a machine for a start who actually begged to be destroyed. The Master, there were no hands on approach here, The Doctor didn't strangle him or shoot him with a gun and his reaction to The Master burning was one of remorse. Did you see the Sixth Doctor actually show remorse for killing Shockeye or those Men on Varos he killed with the vines? No.
The violence the Sixth Doctor displayed in Season 22 was virtually bordering on unrestrained. The killing of Shockeye is probably the most brutal killing The Doctor has seen to commit in it's entire history because of it's savagery. For me there is a big difference between putting a net over someone's head and suffocating them with handkerchief soaked in cyanide than simply shooting down a Cyberman with a blaster. It comes down to what is acceptable violence in the show, and I think the examples you describe above, though true, are of a far lesser degree to what happened in Season 22.
So yes, I think I can accept The Fifth Doctor was capable of being violent but like his predecessors, it was acceptable violence limited to a family audience. Season 22 went beyond that and that's why I do think some of it was written for Colin Baker's Doctor and genuinely do believe the Fifth Doctor wouldn't have killed Shockeye in that way. And I definitely don't think killing those men deliberately with poisonous vines would have happened either, that simply was not The Fifth Doctor's way. If he could have found a way round doing that, he would.
I think you're exaggerating massively. You're portraying the Sixth Doctor as a raving madman. I'd have thought you'd have more fondness for the incarnation who travelled with both your favourite companions.
I completely agree about the murder of Shockeye. It's a betrayal of the character of the Doctor. Unjustifiable brutality which goes against everything the Doctor stands for. The actual scene - like most notorious media representations of death - is actually very tame, though. Something like the shooting of Condo in The Brain of Morbius, complete with spurting blood - yer actual red, not something safe in a shade of green, is a vastly more visceral lunge of Whitehouse-baiting teatime terror. As I lay the blame for the state the series fell into in the 80s at the feet of Eric Saward, I have also decided that he misguidedly crow-barred this scene into The Two Doctors rather than Robert Holmes, who's my favourite script writer.
Of course, I may be wrong. It had to happen eventually.
There isn't much evidence to label the Sixth Doctor as any more murderous than most of the other Doctors. When I watched the Day of the Daleks SE a few months ago - you'll remember me posting about it because I know you hang on my every word - I was actually shocked to see the Third Doctor zap an Ogron with a space gun. The big oaf was about 40' away and clearly a touch "slow", even for an Ogron. I think it was even looking the other way. Whatever, the dandy disintegrated it without mercy.
The Tenth Doctor murders the baby Racnoss and hangs around to savour the grief of their hysterical mother. The Seventh Doctor, cold in the face of Davros' scream for pity, destroys the planet Skaro but can he have been sure that there weren't a few Thals there, back on a peaceful sightseeing tour of places of historical interest? The Fifth Doctor decides that "time can be rewritten" in six incarnations' time, thank you very much, and lets Adric get a closer look at the dinosaurs. The Sixth Doctor goes apesh*t with vionesium and massacres the Vervoids, committing genocide, so I really have to... oh, pants, ignore that last one.
Lots of Cybermen and Daleks have been killed by various Doctors. They may be monsters and thus deserve to die but they're still living beings. That Cyberman over there could have the brain of someone's granny. Or Granny, if Cybermen weren't teetotal.
The Ninth Doctor really had it in for the Daleks. They all burned and he "watched it happen". Better yet, he "made it happen". House, who eats TARDISes for breakfast, suggests that the Eleventh Doctor fear him as he's killed "hundreds of Time Lords". That's nothing - the Doctor replies, "Fear me. I've killed all of them." His own people! Romana! K9?The monster! :eek:
I'm not having a pop at the 6th Doctor at all to be fair. The discussion was, would The Fifth Doctor do exactly the same as the Sixth in Season 22 and my firm opinion is that he wouldn't, I really do believe that. I'm not saying that I'm right or anyone else is wrong, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I have watched The Fifth Doctor enough to know how I think he would have reacted in certain situations in those stories. And you know I love the Sixth Doctor and have stuck up for him and the actor who played him many a time!
If I can quote from the Sixth Doctor handbook, they write something in it which I was to trying to say and I hope it makes sense of what I said last post and at the same time backs up what you have been saying as well:
That's sort of what I said in my last post. What is acceptable violence in Doctor Who? Remember The Doctor's drowning in The Deadly Assassin and how much fuss was made about that and how much Leela got slated for using a knife? You mentioned Cordo in The Brain Of Morbius, which is also the sort of violence I referred to. As I said previously, there is a world of difference between someone getting stabbed in the stomach and pushing a Dalek outside of a window. It's the more realistic violence like stabbing, strangling and suffocating someone to death that offends people. This is what started happening in Season 22 but it got taken to an extreme level with that type of violence.
Despite all the bad things The Doctor has done in the New series I don't think you'll ever see him stab or strangle anyone and there certainly won't be another companion with a knife.
It only occured to me later in life how how cold the 7th Doctor was. Yet as a 7 rd old never picked up on it.