Because, as with any demographic, the female one contains some nasty people, just like the male one. Unless you actually think being female causes nastiness, it is no different (except we still live in a fairly misogynistic society). There's not a lot to wonder at, unless you wonder why in general why people are nasty online, and that would include an awful lot of men who can also be pretty nasty about women (ask Mary Beard).
I totally take your points re the demographic and I am in no way saying men are innocent in doing similar but it doesn't seem to be to anywhere near the extent as female on female slagging.
If it was hypothetically even then why is there virtually zero vitriol from these same people towards attractive sexually confident men, and yet page after page of threads denigrating females?
For me it's pretty clear the majority of people (and I am talking only about on DS here, not in the real world) who seem to be the most vocal in their vitriol towards women, seem to be female posters in Showbiz etc.
I'll happily be directed to page after page filled with threads where male posters do the same to other men but I haven't seen it as yet round here.
You don't see many (in fact any?) male posters obsessing over their hatred of Brad Pitt of George Clooney or Beckham for example, or claiming them to be physically repulsive to look at etc etc.. as that would of course be a total nonsense and make them look pretty idiotic.
I disagree on the BIB- there is a huge amount to wonder at. The study of the human mind, how it works and what motivates people to act in the manner they do, and looking into differences between the sexes is fascinating and to claim it is identical across the board is not accurate at all imo.
It's not black and white as you make out here, far from it.
I disagree on the BIB- there is a huge amount to wonder at. The study of the human mind, how it works and what motivates people to act in the manner they do, and looking into differences between the sexes is fascinating and to claim it is identical across the board is not accurate at all imo.
It's not black and white as you make out here, far from it,
I agree with that, and maybe the question isn't just "why do women do it to each other?" but also "why don't men do it as often?". On a simple level maybe it's just a product left over from the days when females were nothing more than ornaments, and valued for their purity and looks. Nowadays you are devalued based on those. While men were never valued on looks and purity, but on wealth, and there's not much there to get a rise out of someone with.
That was said in a different context though, much the same as if two women friends were in conversation about a conquest the night before, and one said "you total ****" to the other. Both would know its not being said in a threatening manor, and nothing more than banter between friends.
Much like how I, could say to one of my mates "Alright you t***?".. and he'd say "Yeah, I'm good s***head" its banter between mates.
That's what I don't mind, but when it turns violent that is unacceptable
I agree with that, and maybe the question isn't just "why do women do it to each other?" but also "why don't men do it as often?". On a simple level maybe it's just a product left over from the days when females were nothing more than ornaments, and valued for their purity and looks. Nowadays you are devalued based on those. While men were never valued on looks and purity, but on wealth, and there's not much there to get a rise out of someone with.
A very interesting post lightdragon, you make some points I hadn't really considered before, and yes it's would be equally as valid to ask 'why don't men do it as often'.
As acceptable as it is to call men ********s, neckbeards, perverts and slimy cretins.
If the woman is being horrible to you, sure call them a bitch, if shes done nothing wrong then why call her a bitch? (I've been called a **** once when a guy asked me for a "quick f**k" and I politely declined, this is not acceptable).
Probably unwise to say it out loud or on DS.....but nobody can stop you from thinking it. As it happens, I was thinking of one of those words in relation to Maria Miller earlier today.
I agree with that, and maybe the question isn't just "why do women do it to each other?" but also "why don't men do it as often?". On a simple level maybe it's just a product left over from the days when females were nothing more than ornaments, and valued for their purity and looks. Nowadays you are devalued based on those. While men were never valued on looks and purity, but on wealth, and there's not much there to get a rise out of someone with.
You make a very valid point, lightdragon.
My response to that, would be to say that men perhaps show their feelings in a different way to women.
I'll use another example, over on the football section of DS, there are the Anti-Man United posters, who appear to be revelling in the fact they are having an off season, then of course you have the Man United supporters defending their team, which could be called 'point scoring' between the two camps. That's probably not the best analogy to use, but you know what I'm getting at!!!
On the other hand, its not in men's nature to be overcome with jealousy towards another man (in very small cases, it probably is) but usually a man's way to sort out an issue, usually ends up in a fight!!! then more often than not, a handshake or they just stay out of each others way, or try to score points against each other.
Again those two points, probably aren't the best analogy's to use, but hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from!!!
As acceptable as it is to call men ********s, neckbeards, perverts and slimy cretins.
If the woman is being horrible to you, sure call them a bitch, if shes done nothing wrong then why call her a bitch? (I've been called a **** once when a guy asked me for a "quick f**k" and I politely declined, this is not acceptable).
Probably unwise to say it out loud or on DS.....but nobody can stop you from thinking it. As it happens, I was thinking of one of those words in relation to Maria Miller earlier today.
Well yeah, this is the age of social media, and the internet in general. The kind of stuff we're seeing on the showbiz forum, was probably happening well before DS came along. People just didn't have a medium to air those sort of views, other than on a smaller scale in newspapers and magazines for example.
Nope, it's never acceptable. I can never understand the way some women put down other women quite so nastily or the reasons for it. The language they use, it's just alien to me. I have never called a woman a derogatory name in my life, but then I've never called a man one either (well, apart from calling my ex-husband a shit ). You see it year-on-year on the BB boards and it's sad to see how irrational some people can be about a bunch of people on TV.
It's like the word 'chav' - a word that truly makes me grind my teeth - that is thrown around on these boards so much - it seems to cover a multitude of sins from somebody on benefits to somebody unattractive and a multitude of things in-between.
I can only assume it's jealousy, or envy, of that person's lifestyle or looks, their income or success (seeing as we are talking about showbiz/celebs), their talent or ability, their marketability, their confidence. Any or all of the above depending upon the persons involved.
Very very few people in the BB forum agreed with Conor. in fact most were disgusted he was allowed to stay and then take home half the prize.
Yes.
Do you mean Jen from BB9? It was her massive over reaction to the painting incident that made people dislike her, not the fact she was female. I'd say abuse Hazel took last year is a better argument.
... Hmm. No.
There was more to why Jen was so disliked than that; and extreme reaction to her "massive over reaction" is something that needs explanation too, rather than something that straightforwardly explains. And I think her being female was a factor.
However, I agree that she's not a very good example and that Hazel is a better one.
As acceptable as it is to call men ********s, neckbeards, perverts and slimy cretins.
If the woman is being horrible to you, sure call them a bitch, if shes done nothing wrong then why call her a bitch? (I've been called a **** once when a guy asked me for a "quick f**k" and I politely declined, this is not acceptable).
There was more to why Jen was so disliked than that; and extreme reaction to her "massive over reaction" is something that needs explanation too, rather than something that straightforwardly explains. And I think her being female was a factor.
However, I agree that she's not a very good example and that Hazel is a better one.
Yes, I think something similar was mentioned over on the showbiz forum, on the thread that was the catalyst for this very thread.
Jen's reaction to the painting incident was probably a bit over the top, I can kind of see where people were coming from on that, at the time on the BB forum it was made to look about 100 times worse than it actually was.
Obviously there were those who were jealousy shall we say of Jen, so this over reaction to the painting incident, only served as a means for them to justify their reasons for hating her.
I would say he was a typical bloke, his pride got hurt, so he reacted the only way he could, by calling the poor girl a ****, I've seen it plenty of times out on the town!!!
Nope, it's never acceptable. I can never understand the way some women put down other women quite so nastily or the reasons for it. The language they use, it's just alien to me. I have never called a woman a derogatory name in my life, but then I've never called a man one either (well, apart from calling my ex-husband a shit ). You see it year-on-year on the BB boards and it's sad to see how irrational some people can be about a bunch of people on TV.
You've never in your WHOLE LIFE called a woman a 'bitch'? In your whole life? Seriously?!
...
Jen's reaction to the painting incident was probably a bit over the top, I can kind of see where people were coming from on that, at the time on the BB forum it was made to look about 100 times worse than it actually was.
Obviously there were those who were jealousy shall we say of Jen, so this over reaction to the painting incident, only served as a means for them to justify their reasons for hating her.
I don't think people were jealous of Jen, but there was a tendency to talk as if she were to blame for the way Dale and Stu behaved; and there is a somewhat misogynist stereotype there, of a woman using her 'feminine wiles' (so to speak) to manipulate men. I don't think the term "white knighting" was in use back then, but in effect Dale and Stu were seen as merely "white knighting", and Jen as behind it all.
There's a massive difference in someone joking about with mates or in other scenarios and calling each other names (esp those with quite clear connotations) where it's not meant with direct malice, esp if it's known how the other person is likely to react to it.
That for me is a world apart from those who seem to deliberately use certain words like **** or slag purely in order to denigrate the person in question.
What the motivation is behind those that seem to do it daily to various female celebs (and it's pretty predictable which ones they'll 'target') is what I find most 'interesting'.
Comments
I totally take your points re the demographic and I am in no way saying men are innocent in doing similar but it doesn't seem to be to anywhere near the extent as female on female slagging.
If it was hypothetically even then why is there virtually zero vitriol from these same people towards attractive sexually confident men, and yet page after page of threads denigrating females?
For me it's pretty clear the majority of people (and I am talking only about on DS here, not in the real world) who seem to be the most vocal in their vitriol towards women, seem to be female posters in Showbiz etc.
I'll happily be directed to page after page filled with threads where male posters do the same to other men but I haven't seen it as yet round here.
You don't see many (in fact any?) male posters obsessing over their hatred of Brad Pitt of George Clooney or Beckham for example, or claiming them to be physically repulsive to look at etc etc.. as that would of course be a total nonsense and make them look pretty idiotic.
I disagree on the BIB- there is a huge amount to wonder at. The study of the human mind, how it works and what motivates people to act in the manner they do, and looking into differences between the sexes is fascinating and to claim it is identical across the board is not accurate at all imo.
It's not black and white as you make out here, far from it.
I agree with that, and maybe the question isn't just "why do women do it to each other?" but also "why don't men do it as often?". On a simple level maybe it's just a product left over from the days when females were nothing more than ornaments, and valued for their purity and looks. Nowadays you are devalued based on those. While men were never valued on looks and purity, but on wealth, and there's not much there to get a rise out of someone with.
That was said in a different context though, much the same as if two women friends were in conversation about a conquest the night before, and one said "you total ****" to the other. Both would know its not being said in a threatening manor, and nothing more than banter between friends.
Much like how I, could say to one of my mates "Alright you t***?".. and he'd say "Yeah, I'm good s***head" its banter between mates.
That's what I don't mind, but when it turns violent that is unacceptable
A very interesting post lightdragon, you make some points I hadn't really considered before, and yes it's would be equally as valid to ask 'why don't men do it as often'.
Are you trying to say you call your mum a bitch or a ****?
The good ole double standard rears its head.
If the woman is being horrible to you, sure call them a bitch, if shes done nothing wrong then why call her a bitch? (I've been called a **** once when a guy asked me for a "quick f**k" and I politely declined, this is not acceptable).
Yes. She is.
And that goes for both sexes. Sometimes a woman's worst enemy is another woman. Strangely.
You make a very valid point, lightdragon.
My response to that, would be to say that men perhaps show their feelings in a different way to women.
I'll use another example, over on the football section of DS, there are the Anti-Man United posters, who appear to be revelling in the fact they are having an off season, then of course you have the Man United supporters defending their team, which could be called 'point scoring' between the two camps. That's probably not the best analogy to use, but you know what I'm getting at!!!
On the other hand, its not in men's nature to be overcome with jealousy towards another man (in very small cases, it probably is) but usually a man's way to sort out an issue, usually ends up in a fight!!! then more often than not, a handshake or they just stay out of each others way, or try to score points against each other.
Again those two points, probably aren't the best analogy's to use, but hopefully you'll understand where I'm coming from!!!
Well that doesn't even make sense does it? lol
Well yeah, this is the age of social media, and the internet in general. The kind of stuff we're seeing on the showbiz forum, was probably happening well before DS came along. People just didn't have a medium to air those sort of views, other than on a smaller scale in newspapers and magazines for example.
It's like the word 'chav' - a word that truly makes me grind my teeth - that is thrown around on these boards so much - it seems to cover a multitude of sins from somebody on benefits to somebody unattractive and a multitude of things in-between.
I can only assume it's jealousy, or envy, of that person's lifestyle or looks, their income or success (seeing as we are talking about showbiz/celebs), their talent or ability, their marketability, their confidence. Any or all of the above depending upon the persons involved.
Yes.
... Hmm. No.
There was more to why Jen was so disliked than that; and extreme reaction to her "massive over reaction" is something that needs explanation too, rather than something that straightforwardly explains. And I think her being female was a factor.
However, I agree that she's not a very good example and that Hazel is a better one.
He sounds bright...
Yes, I think something similar was mentioned over on the showbiz forum, on the thread that was the catalyst for this very thread.
Jen's reaction to the painting incident was probably a bit over the top, I can kind of see where people were coming from on that, at the time on the BB forum it was made to look about 100 times worse than it actually was.
Obviously there were those who were jealousy shall we say of Jen, so this over reaction to the painting incident, only served as a means for them to justify their reasons for hating her.
I would say he was a typical bloke, his pride got hurt, so he reacted the only way he could, by calling the poor girl a ****, I've seen it plenty of times out on the town!!!
You've never in your WHOLE LIFE called a woman a 'bitch'? In your whole life? Seriously?!
I don't think people were jealous of Jen, but there was a tendency to talk as if she were to blame for the way Dale and Stu behaved; and there is a somewhat misogynist stereotype there, of a woman using her 'feminine wiles' (so to speak) to manipulate men. I don't think the term "white knighting" was in use back then, but in effect Dale and Stu were seen as merely "white knighting", and Jen as behind it all.
There's a massive difference in someone joking about with mates or in other scenarios and calling each other names (esp those with quite clear connotations) where it's not meant with direct malice, esp if it's known how the other person is likely to react to it.
That for me is a world apart from those who seem to deliberately use certain words like **** or slag purely in order to denigrate the person in question.
What the motivation is behind those that seem to do it daily to various female celebs (and it's pretty predictable which ones they'll 'target') is what I find most 'interesting'.
The wonders and mysteries of the internet eh?