Unpaid internships

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 454
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The government is set to ban the advertising of unpaid internships:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/dec/04/ban-unpaid-internship-adverts

While this is just the advertising, and not actual practise of, it looks as though there's growing support for internships to be paid. What are your thoughts on unpaid internships? Just something people have to put up with to get into their career choice? Exploitive labour?

I did almost two years of internships, mostly unpaid in journalism and then later publishing. The unpaid ones were mainly awful - long hour without breaks, acting as a skivvy and not actually learning much. One internship which I had for six months was pretty much a full time role, that would have been a paid job if I hadn't had done it for free.The paid ones were a lot better, as the company would invest in you more and you could take things from it. I'd say 90% of the other interns I worked with were very well off with their parents supporting them. I worked every night and weekend to be able to afford to pay my rent and food, and it was exhausting, but it was something I had to do in order to get a job I wanted. Most of the other interns who weren't wealthy ended up quitting because they couldn't even afford to get to work.

What are your thoughts on unpaid internships? Just something people have to put up with to get into their career choice? Exploitive labour?

Comments

  • SemieroticSemierotic Posts: 11,131
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    If they're genuine work experiences then fine, but often it's just unpaid work - which is undoubtedly immoral. I briefly worked in the ad industry and can't begin to estimate how much work it must get for free.
  • Harper_MilneHarper_Milne Posts: 2,854
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    I've done 2 unpaid internships and I don't think I'll do another one unless it sounded ultra amazing. They are exploitative no doubt about that. They do it because they can and it sucks :( The ones that I did I got given baby work to do and I wasn't learning or progressing at all. I got given £6 a day which gets you nowhere in London. So yeah, I'm not a fan at all. I think if you do a fair days work you should get a fair pay. I'm so glad government are taking steps to end this awful process haha!
  • swehsweh Posts: 13,665
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    All the work I've done so far was pro bono.

    I don't mind that it was for no pay, to be honest. Some may say it's exploitive, but I never felt as though I was exploited. It was a lot of research, but it was pretty fun.
    I never wanted the money, I just did it for the experience and I'm grateful for that.
    I met so many random people and learnt so much obscure legal knowledge that you'd never get in a classroom, it was worth it.
  • clarriboclarribo Posts: 6,258
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    I think unpaid internships are a disgrace, mainly as they are only really open to certain people. worse though are these companies who charge businesses to find them interns. (and those who pay it) If you can pay that fee why not pay the intern?
  • KennedyCKennedyC Posts: 1,289
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    If you aren't being paid then your "employer" doesn't value you. When I did my technician apprenticeship in the early 80s I was paid initially £1 an hour but I received full time training for the first year followed by between 2 and 8 weeks spent in each company department learning everything I possible could. Throughout the 4.5 years I was paid to go to college 1 day and 1 evening each week where I gained a Tech Cert and then a HNC. I could have carried on for a HND but chose not to.

    I think that a good apprenticeship turns a 16 year old boy into a man by providing gradually increasing responsibility and many role models.

    I believe that an Internship aimed at post graduates should be modeled on an apprenticeship but without the day release.
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    Unfortunate timing considering what was uncovered yesterday - 14 and 15 year olds forced to do unpaid labour under a Government school project:

    http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1767942
  • statenislandstatenisland Posts: 635
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    yes my little sis did one of these and i felt so bad for her being exploited and struggling to afford transport, food and suchlike, i ended up giving her the cash her employer should have done. she was so desperate to make tracks in her dream career and this was the only way.

    they should be banned.
  • WanderinWonderWanderinWonder Posts: 3,719
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    clarribo wrote: »
    I think unpaid internships are a disgrace, mainly as they are only really open to certain people. worse though are these companies who charge businesses to find them interns. (and those who pay it) If you can pay that fee why not pay the intern?

    Ditto. Longterm unpaid internships suck, and are a despicable practice. It means that mostly only privileged young people can ever get a foot in the door. And when you factor in that often the interns are just treated as general dogsbodies and don't really get to practice the advanced skills they need to develop enough, I think they're not really worth the effort. I think some internships are genuine though, especially if they include a minimum wage or at the very least coverage of travel expenses.
  • BelligerenceBelligerence Posts: 40,613
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    clarribo wrote: »
    I think unpaid internships are a disgrace, mainly as they are only really open to certain people. worse though are these companies who charge businesses to find them interns. (and those who pay it) If you can pay that fee why not pay the intern?
    Especially when it benefits corps.

    At the end of the day, if you work, you should be entitled to some pay. Internships are not volunteering schemes!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 454
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    Semierotic wrote: »
    If they're genuine work experiences then fine, but often it's just unpaid work - which is undoubtedly immoral. I briefly worked in the ad industry and can't begin to estimate how much work it must get for free.

    The fashion industry is notorious for their unpaid internships, I've known people who are pattern-cutters, embroiderers etc, who are literally making entire collections for designers, working 12+ hours in the run up to shows, and yet aren't even getting travel expenses. These are full time jobs that people have to train for and have expertise and skill in, and it's taking paid work away from them.

    I think the figure for young people having to complete a internships before getting a paid job is something like 20% up from just 1-2% in the 1960s. It's come to be expected that you'll work for a few months/years for free before you get a 'proper job'.
  • WinterFireWinterFire Posts: 9,509
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    I don't think internships shoulkd be banned. But, they should be of strictly limited length, e.g. 3 weeks. And a company should have a limited quota of these weeks, depending on how many full time employees in similar work it takes on.

    It would take some work to come up with a workable system that would enable this strategy without being too onerous to administer.
  • AneechikAneechik Posts: 20,208
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    Anyway back in reality, most interns usually don't do any actual work, most of their time is spent shadowing an existing employee and learning what they're doing. The most responsible thing they'll ever get to do is make the tea as no company in their right mind would let an unpaid intern loose on the company's workload.

    At the company I used to work at, the arrival of interns was greeted with a mixture of contempt and dread because of how much they slowed the work down, so it's completely wrong to say that interns are used as free labour when their presence is more of a hinderance than a help, or that they replace paid staff when they rarely do anything more than photocopying. In my experience, most interns were grateful for the experience of learning skills in an industry they intended to work in.

    Obviously there are unscrupulous companies that exploit labour, but to be honest the only companies that are able to do that are ones who are taking on interns to teach about packing boxes in factories or stacking shelves - any anyone who takes such an internship really needs their head examined.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 454
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    Aneechik wrote: »
    Anyway back in reality, most interns usually don't do any actual work, most of their time is spent shadowing an existing employee and learning what they're doing. The most responsible thing they'll ever get to do is make the tea as no company in their right mind would let an unpaid intern loose on the company's workload.

    At the company I used to work at, the arrival of interns was greeted with a mixture of contempt and dread because of how much they slowed the work down, so it's completely wrong to say that interns are used as free labour when their presence is more of a hinderance than a help, or that they replace paid staff when they rarely do anything more than photocopying. In my experience, most interns were grateful for the experience of learning skills in an industry they intended to work in.

    Obviously there are unscrupulous companies that exploit labour, but to be honest the only companies that are able to do that are ones who are taking on interns to teach about packing boxes in factories or stacking shelves - any anyone who takes such an internship really needs their head examined.

    Can I ask which industry you work in?

    Some internships are just making tea and photocopying. But I've done plenty where I've been expected to write full press releases, liaise with clients and press, arrange promotional tours, come up with marketing plans etc. and did little less than I do now I'm in a full time job. Like I said, in fashion you're expected to make full collections, so you are taking paid jobs away from pattern-cutters, machinists, seamstresses etc.

    My internships were all in fashion/media, so I don't know how it works in other industries.
  • WanderinWonderWanderinWonder Posts: 3,719
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    I really think any iternship that simply involves making tea and photocopying is nothing short of a waste of time and an insult to interns' intelligence.
  • EmmasmytheEmmasmythe Posts: 530
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    there should be a time limit on them, say couple of months, not a year, some companies take the pee
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