The fault is still there, which i think is unreasonable given that the BBC claim they know what causes it, perhaps what was done to cause it should be undone while a fix is researched instead of leaving a group of what must be more than 100 viewers dissatisfied and if it really is only 100 people their tvs should be replaced. One wonders at what point we should request a replacement tv (mine has a 5 year warranty). Perhaps a true indication of a correction date should be given not a vague promise of a fix that may help.
The fault is still there, which i think is unreasonable given that the BBC claim they know what causes it, perhaps what was done to cause it should be undone while a fix is researched instead of leaving a group of what must be more than 100 viewers dissatisfied and if it really is only 100 people their tvs should be replaced. One wonders at what point we should request a replacement tv (mine has a 5 year warranty). Perhaps a true indication of a correction date should be given not a vague promise of a fix that may help.
Yes the fault is still there and now approaching the 7th week >:( the last update was on the 15th April and another 2 weeks on and nothing. When i last rang the bbc up they said any day now and the fix will be applied and nothing has happened.
steve w2 and sex bomb
I think we now know the reason why BBC ftv ltd upgraded mux PSB 3 ....
And if they rolled back to the previous version tomorrow's channel launch will not happen,
And they would be in breach of contract with their new customer .,...
I'm sure that thier customers viz BBC ITV ch4 and now c5 are putting pressure on the set manufacturers to fix it and on BBC ftv to see if there is a work Around which they could start testing... But remember it may have a SI v PSI issue which would involve Digital UK ..
( I don't know if it is)
. But I think most viewers will like the extra HD channel ...
I make my official complaint to the BBC tomorrow. Still no easily accessible public announcement, no update on the hard to find page since April 15th and no-one seems to give a damn. It's unprofessional and unacceptable.
I updated my Samsung 32ES5500 today to 2007 software
I too bought my TV from John Lewis. A week ago, in response to a question from me, John Lewis Emailed saying;
"In regards to a fix for the issue, we received a notification earlier today that Samsung has an update for certain models of affected televisions.
Whilst your model of television is not amongst those which a fix has been released for today, it is at least encouraging that a fix has been found for other affected models."
I have been looking out for any sign of this new firmware, e.g. scheduled over-air download, notification on the BBC web site, but have not seen anything.
Steve_W2, did somebody suggest to you that a firmware fix was available?
I too bought my TV from John Lewis. A week ago, in response to a question from me, John Lewis Emailed saying;
"In regards to a fix for the issue, we received a notification earlier today that Samsung has an update for certain models of affected televisions.
Whilst your model of television is not amongst those which a fix has been released for today, it is at least encouraging that a fix has been found for other affected models."
I have been looking out for any sign of this new firmware, e.g. scheduled over-air download, notification on the BBC web site, but have not seen anything.
Steve_W2, did somebody suggest to you that a firmware fix was available?
Try the Samsung website. Search for your specific model on the Support pages and any firmware update should be there.
Depending on the model of TV the update may not be available as an over the air download. Smart TVs for example tend to update over the internet as the downloads can be pretty big (my LG TV for example is over 500MB per update), too big for an over the air delivery really. Either that or you download from the website and copy the file(s) to a USB drive and plug that into the TV.
Chris, I have been monitoring the Samsung website for new firmware for my model of TV. There is none.
John Lewis did not tell me for which Samsung model new firmware has recently been made available, therefore I have been waiting for some secondary evidence that it exists!
On the subject of Samsung firmware, I did look at what was already available for my TV. No release notes, nothing about what problems it is intended to fix or what it does. Very poor indeed. Just to annoy me further, distributed as a self extracting EXE file. I do have a Linux utility that could get the files out but if there was any directory structure, that was lost.
(p.s. Thanks for the info re. smart TV's. I have never owned one. If I ever go down that route it would probably be something like a Raspberry Pi attached to a non-smart TV or display screen. Something I have control over, Linux based, of course).
Chris, I have been monitoring the Samsung website for new firmware for my model of TV. There is none.
John Lewis did not tell me for which Samsung model new firmware has recently been made available, therefore I have been waiting for some secondary evidence that it exists!
On the subject of Samsung firmware, I did look at what was already available for my TV. No release notes, nothing about what problems it is intended to fix or what it does. Very poor indeed. Just to annoy me further, distributed as a self extracting EXE file. I do have a Linux utility that could get the files out but if there was any directory structure, that was lost.
(p.s. Thanks for the info re. smart TV's. I have never owned one. If I ever go down that route it would probably be something like a Raspberry Pi attached to a non-smart TV or display screen. Something I have control over, Linux based, of course).
Steve_W2 mentions a Samsung model in one of his posts. There is a firmware update for it on the Samsung website but that is dated just over a year ago. So I very much doubt it addresses this particular problem.
So one does have to wonder a) does this fabled update actually exist, b) what (if any) models does it apply to and c) will it ever be rolled out to any other models?
And I like the way it describes the update as "All OS" yet it is a Windows exe! Or do they mean the TV OS rather than the OS of the computer you are downloading it on? Why not make it a bog standard Zip file that would truly be "All OS"?
Since end of March, my Samsung UE32es6800 will lose sound, but only if I am watching a HD channel, BBC 1, BBC 2, ITV, Channel 4 etc. (channel number 101, 102, 103, 104)
Switching up and down a channel will get sound back or switching between HD and SD.
I have been logging the sound failures.
They can occur at any time after switching on to a HD channel. I have had sound go 3 times within one program or it can wait all evening then stop just the once.
The only commonality is it only effects HD channels and this started end of March and has been occurring on a daily basis. I'm beginning to get somewhat annoyed with the continual interruptions and hope someone sorts this issue soon.
On 'one' occassion:
Sat 30th April Channel 102 10pm - lost sound and vision symultaneously - this as yet has not been repeated.
Where: Newton Abbot, Devon.
TV was purchased in February 2013, so just three years old.
Aerial on roof using a signal booster. No additional boxsets, no additional hdmi cables to other sound outputting devices etc. Using it's own in built sound.
The Newton Abbot (Devon, England) mast is a public service broadcasting (PSB) transmitter, this is quite close to my home - within a couple of miles, but I think - not sure - does not supply the HD channels.
The big local mast is 'Beacon Hill'.
My software update says I'm using version ending 2006.0
Samsung are aware of issue and my TV ue32es6800 is one of those effected.
Something to do with broadcasters changing things and now a new update for TV is expected within the next couple of weeks - so end of May 'ish.
The new software version will end with 2008.0.
So wait a while and try to get update to software as it is supposed to fix this ongoing issue.
The Newton Abbot (Devon, England) mast is a public service broadcasting (PSB) transmitter, this is quite close to my home - within a couple of miles, but I think - not sure - does not supply the HD channels.
The big local mast is 'Beacon Hill'.
Newton Abbot is a "Freeview Lite" site. In other words it just transmits the three PSB muxes which does include the main BBC1/2, ITV, C4, C5 etc HD mux. Which is the one that appears to be implicated in this issue.
Beacon Hill carries the full compliment of muxes including the COM7/8 muxes which carry some additional HD channels but which don't appear to suffer the same problem as those on PSB3.
My frustration is becoming intense with this absurd situation. The BBC still haven't a clue as to if or when they'll be able to fix it, Ofcom hand broadcast problems over to the BBC rather than doing their job properly and if I contact Samsung I get a delightful person in another country who tells me they are aware but have no idea as to when it might be fixed. Nobody appears to give a damn.
I too bought my TV from John Lewis. A week ago, in response to a question from me, John Lewis Emailed saying;
"In regards to a fix for the issue, we received a notification earlier today that Samsung has an update for certain models of affected televisions.
Whilst your model of television is not amongst those which a fix has been released for today, it is at least encouraging that a fix has been found for other affected models."
I have been looking out for any sign of this new firmware, e.g. scheduled over-air download, notification on the BBC web site, but have not seen anything.
Steve_W2, did somebody suggest to you that a firmware fix was available?
I only updated my Samsung 32ES5500 because it was mentioned that there was an update on USB from Samsung so I wrongly assumed it was a fix.
My frustration is becoming intense with this absurd situation. The BBC still haven't a clue as to if or when they'll be able to fix it, Ofcom hand broadcast problems over to the BBC rather than doing their job properly and if I contact Samsung I get a delightful person in another country who tells me they are aware but have no idea as to when it might be fixed. Nobody appears to give a damn.
Who has to fix things?
The answer seems to be Samsung
Besides the viewer whose most affected by the problem,
The BBC , ITV ch 4 and from today C5 ... All of which have contracts with.....
Who's mux is causing the issue
BBC FTV LTd operated by ATOS
Who is looking at the problem ?
ATOS BBC R&D , Harmonic (Thomson video networks) DTG Testing and various manufacturers.
Who's should viewers complain to if their programmes are messed up?
The channel ..... Who may say that the set manufacturer is fixing it .. So talk to the shop.
Who should be talking to the public ?
Those whose equipment is at fault
and perhaps digital uk or the Mux operator if SI or content streams are out of spec,
But until there is a fix which has been tested..... There is not much to tell.
None of this is new ..... It's is over 20 years ago that one model of tv was recalled /replaced because its digital sound did not work in the face of a legitimate signal in the audio mux.....
The 11kbit/sec data channel .....
But things have moved on in that a DVB TS is recordable and thus there is a clear record of what caused the disturbance.......
20 years ago it was some guesses a lot of experiments and manually going through code..... As the stream had no recorder,....
problem was with ITV London who had the misfortune of it happening I front of the regulating ITC
but most investigation was by BBC with ITV and the manufacturer
Having worked closely with manufacturers we have established the cause of the sound problems on certain televisions, when tuned into services on the BBC’s HD multiplex.
We are now in a position to make some changes that will help the affected televisions. These changes will be rolled out in a controlled way, starting in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and London.
Although the changes have undergone testing, rolling out regionally will enable us to monitor the impact, just in case we need to reverse the changes, if unexpected problems occur.
Assuming it works successfully, we will roll out to the rest of the country in the next couple of weeks.
Technical details about the problem
Under certain audio conditions our encoders were using a technique called perceptual noise substitution (PNS) and some audio decoders were found unable to decode this. PNS is part of the MPEG4 AAC specification which the UK D-Book references. Our encoders have always been capable of using PNS but a recent update meant that PNS could be selected by the audio encoder at the audio bit rates used on Freeview.
Receiver Updates
Manufacturers are planning their own software updates in order to provide a long-term solution to this problem although we believe the updates could be some weeks away. You will need to contact your manufacturer for more details.
Please visit this page for any further updates.
Thank you for bearing with us and sorry for the inconvenience. We would also like to say thanks to all of you who provided information to us about this problem.
This is all about PNS. I don't claim to understand it but it looks as though in certain Samsung and Toshiba TVs the noise generator in the decoder is either not functioning or does not exist hence holes in the sound. I'm sure someone with greater knowledge will be able to expand on this.
I have watched C4 evening news in HD tonight. Error free on my Samsung UE32EH5000KXXU so almost certainly something has already changed here west of London. No immediate benefit to the Winter Hill fraternity but hopefully your turn will come.
Assuming the BBC has only temporarily stopped doing what they were doing this is a work-around. My TV's capabilities are unchanged.
I'm also having a problem with the BBC B HD channels from Winter Hill (that's how digitaluk refer to them, but this seems to be referred to as the PSB3 mux). But instead of just the sound dropping out I can't get them at all now! I'm also using a Samsung TV (UE40H5000).
The complicating factor is that I'm in a rented flat and know that the aerial isn't really adequate - it's a cheap contract version and really needs a mast. Last summer the reception was very spotty and dependent on the weather and time of day, but over the winter everything cleared up and I had no problems for months. But starting about 3 weeks ago the reception on the BBC HD channels began to deteriorate and a couple of days ago they vanished completely.
I've done a full retune, tried manually tuning to channel 54, but nothing will bring them back. Yet I can receive the lower-powered COM7 HD channels (BBC 4 HD, BBC News HD etc) perfectly, which suggests this isn't an antenna issue. After reading this thread I checked the Samsung support page and installed the latest FW for my set (1042), but the problem persists.
I assume that, as with everyone else, the only hope is to sit around and wait for the BBC and manufacturers to sort out a solution. But I just want to check that I'm right in assuming that being able to get BBC4 HD without problem means there's little point upgrading the aerial. I don't want to bug my landlord (or, most likely, have to shell out myself) for a mast and proper antenna if it won't fix the problem. My problem is a complete loss of the channels on this mux, rather than simple sound drops, so I'm not really sure if this is the same issue.
(I must say I'm glad I came across this thread, been tearing my hair out for a few days over this, and it's always nice to know you're not alone.)
I'm also having a problem with the BBC B HD channels from Winter Hill (that's how digitaluk refer to them, but this seems to be referred to as the PSB3 mux). But instead of just the sound dropping out I can't get them at all now! I'm also using a Samsung TV (UE40H5000).
The complicating factor is that I'm in a rented flat and know that the aerial isn't really adequate - it's a cheap contract version and really needs a mast. Last summer the reception was very spotty and dependent on the weather and time of day, but over the winter everything cleared up and I had no problems for months. But starting about 3 weeks ago the reception on the BBC HD channels began to deteriorate and a couple of days ago they vanished completely.
I've done a full retune, tried manually tuning to channel 54, but nothing will bring them back. Yet I can receive the lower-powered COM7 HD channels (BBC 4 HD, BBC News HD etc) perfectly, which suggests this isn't an antenna issue. After reading this thread I checked the Samsung support page and installed the latest FW for my set (1042), but the problem persists.
I assume that, as with everyone else, the only hope is to sit around and wait for the BBC and manufacturers to sort out a solution. But I just want to check that I'm right in assuming that being able to get BBC4 HD without problem means there's little point upgrading the aerial. I don't want to bug my landlord (or, most likely, have to shell out myself) for a mast and proper antenna if it won't fix the problem. My problem is a complete loss of the channels on this mux, rather than simple sound drops, so I'm not really sure if this is the same issue.
(I must say I'm glad I came across this thread, been tearing my hair out for a few days over this, and it's always nice to know you're not alone.)
I don't think your issue is related to the one under discussion here. But what you very definitely should NOT have done is retune. Retuning when you lose channels is the option of last resort never ever the first thing you do.
You need to eliminate every other possible cause first. The problem is now that with no tuning data stored for these channels you have no way of knowing if the fault has been fixed or not.
You need to check out as much of the aerial system as you can. Check all aerial cables and connections are in good working order. If you are using cheap supermarket/poundshop leads then rip them out and use something decent. Preferably high quality double screened coax cable and good quality metal plugs.
If you have a wall plate where the cable from the aerial terminates unscrew it and check the cable termination. Make sure the screen braid is neatly clamped and there are no stray strands of braid leaking out that could touch the inner conductor.
Try and keep the aerial cable as physically separate from other cables as possible. People have reported interference between HDMI and aerial cables. Using good quality well screened cables will reduce any interference.
But basically check out the aerial system first and correct any faults with that and only if/when you run out of any other options do a retune. Except of course you've done the retune so can't easily tell if anything you do to the aerial system has corrected the fault. Unless you have the option to retune the TV on a known working aerial to get the missing channels back or can use a known working TV (without retuning!) on your aerial.
Comments
Clem
Yes the fault is still there and now approaching the 7th week >:( the last update was on the 15th April and another 2 weeks on and nothing. When i last rang the bbc up they said any day now and the fix will be applied and nothing has happened.
I will leave it another couple of weeks and get back to John Lewis and see what they say.
I think we now know the reason why BBC ftv ltd upgraded mux PSB 3 ....
And if they rolled back to the previous version tomorrow's channel launch will not happen,
And they would be in breach of contract with their new customer .,...
I'm sure that thier customers viz BBC ITV ch4 and now c5 are putting pressure on the set manufacturers to fix it and on BBC ftv to see if there is a work Around which they could start testing... But remember it may have a SI v PSI issue which would involve Digital UK ..
( I don't know if it is)
. But I think most viewers will like the extra HD channel ...
Updated here now too, i ran the bbc last week and said they are still testing things out and told me to hang out til it's fixed.
I too bought my TV from John Lewis. A week ago, in response to a question from me, John Lewis Emailed saying;
"In regards to a fix for the issue, we received a notification earlier today that Samsung has an update for certain models of affected televisions.
Whilst your model of television is not amongst those which a fix has been released for today, it is at least encouraging that a fix has been found for other affected models."
I have been looking out for any sign of this new firmware, e.g. scheduled over-air download, notification on the BBC web site, but have not seen anything.
Steve_W2, did somebody suggest to you that a firmware fix was available?
Depending on the model of TV the update may not be available as an over the air download. Smart TVs for example tend to update over the internet as the downloads can be pretty big (my LG TV for example is over 500MB per update), too big for an over the air delivery really. Either that or you download from the website and copy the file(s) to a USB drive and plug that into the TV.
John Lewis did not tell me for which Samsung model new firmware has recently been made available, therefore I have been waiting for some secondary evidence that it exists!
On the subject of Samsung firmware, I did look at what was already available for my TV. No release notes, nothing about what problems it is intended to fix or what it does. Very poor indeed. Just to annoy me further, distributed as a self extracting EXE file. I do have a Linux utility that could get the files out but if there was any directory structure, that was lost.
(p.s. Thanks for the info re. smart TV's. I have never owned one. If I ever go down that route it would probably be something like a Raspberry Pi attached to a non-smart TV or display screen. Something I have control over, Linux based, of course).
http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/model/UE32ES5500KXXU
So one does have to wonder a) does this fabled update actually exist, b) what (if any) models does it apply to and c) will it ever be rolled out to any other models?
And I like the way it describes the update as "All OS" yet it is a Windows exe! Or do they mean the TV OS rather than the OS of the computer you are downloading it on? Why not make it a bog standard Zip file that would truly be "All OS"?
Switching up and down a channel will get sound back or switching between HD and SD.
I have been logging the sound failures.
They can occur at any time after switching on to a HD channel. I have had sound go 3 times within one program or it can wait all evening then stop just the once.
The only commonality is it only effects HD channels and this started end of March and has been occurring on a daily basis. I'm beginning to get somewhat annoyed with the continual interruptions and hope someone sorts this issue soon.
On 'one' occassion:
Sat 30th April Channel 102 10pm - lost sound and vision symultaneously - this as yet has not been repeated.
Where: Newton Abbot, Devon.
TV was purchased in February 2013, so just three years old.
Aerial on roof using a signal booster. No additional boxsets, no additional hdmi cables to other sound outputting devices etc. Using it's own in built sound.
The Newton Abbot (Devon, England) mast is a public service broadcasting (PSB) transmitter, this is quite close to my home - within a couple of miles, but I think - not sure - does not supply the HD channels.
The big local mast is 'Beacon Hill'.
Samsung are aware of issue and my TV ue32es6800 is one of those effected.
Something to do with broadcasters changing things and now a new update for TV is expected within the next couple of weeks - so end of May 'ish.
The new software version will end with 2008.0.
So wait a while and try to get update to software as it is supposed to fix this ongoing issue.
Beacon Hill carries the full compliment of muxes including the COM7/8 muxes which carry some additional HD channels but which don't appear to suffer the same problem as those on PSB3.
Who has to fix things?
The answer seems to be Samsung
Besides the viewer whose most affected by the problem,
The BBC , ITV ch 4 and from today C5 ... All of which have contracts with.....
Who's mux is causing the issue
BBC FTV LTd operated by ATOS
Who is looking at the problem ?
ATOS BBC R&D , Harmonic (Thomson video networks) DTG Testing and various manufacturers.
Who's should viewers complain to if their programmes are messed up?
The channel ..... Who may say that the set manufacturer is fixing it .. So talk to the shop.
Who should be talking to the public ?
Those whose equipment is at fault
and perhaps digital uk or the Mux operator if SI or content streams are out of spec,
But until there is a fix which has been tested..... There is not much to tell.
None of this is new ..... It's is over 20 years ago that one model of tv was recalled /replaced because its digital sound did not work in the face of a legitimate signal in the audio mux.....
The 11kbit/sec data channel .....
But things have moved on in that a DVB TS is recordable and thus there is a clear record of what caused the disturbance.......
20 years ago it was some guesses a lot of experiments and manually going through code..... As the stream had no recorder,....
problem was with ITV London who had the misfortune of it happening I front of the regulating ITC
but most investigation was by BBC with ITV and the manufacturer
Having worked closely with manufacturers we have established the cause of the sound problems on certain televisions, when tuned into services on the BBC’s HD multiplex.
We are now in a position to make some changes that will help the affected televisions. These changes will be rolled out in a controlled way, starting in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and London.
Although the changes have undergone testing, rolling out regionally will enable us to monitor the impact, just in case we need to reverse the changes, if unexpected problems occur.
Assuming it works successfully, we will roll out to the rest of the country in the next couple of weeks.
Technical details about the problem
Under certain audio conditions our encoders were using a technique called perceptual noise substitution (PNS) and some audio decoders were found unable to decode this. PNS is part of the MPEG4 AAC specification which the UK D-Book references. Our encoders have always been capable of using PNS but a recent update meant that PNS could be selected by the audio encoder at the audio bit rates used on Freeview.
Receiver Updates
Manufacturers are planning their own software updates in order to provide a long-term solution to this problem although we believe the updates could be some weeks away. You will need to contact your manufacturer for more details.
Please visit this page for any further updates.
Thank you for bearing with us and sorry for the inconvenience. We would also like to say thanks to all of you who provided information to us about this problem.
https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~kapilkm/422/Audio%20Compression%20using%20Entropy%20Coding%20and%20PNS-1.pdf
Assuming the BBC has only temporarily stopped doing what they were doing this is a work-around. My TV's capabilities are unchanged.
The complicating factor is that I'm in a rented flat and know that the aerial isn't really adequate - it's a cheap contract version and really needs a mast. Last summer the reception was very spotty and dependent on the weather and time of day, but over the winter everything cleared up and I had no problems for months. But starting about 3 weeks ago the reception on the BBC HD channels began to deteriorate and a couple of days ago they vanished completely.
I've done a full retune, tried manually tuning to channel 54, but nothing will bring them back. Yet I can receive the lower-powered COM7 HD channels (BBC 4 HD, BBC News HD etc) perfectly, which suggests this isn't an antenna issue. After reading this thread I checked the Samsung support page and installed the latest FW for my set (1042), but the problem persists.
I assume that, as with everyone else, the only hope is to sit around and wait for the BBC and manufacturers to sort out a solution. But I just want to check that I'm right in assuming that being able to get BBC4 HD without problem means there's little point upgrading the aerial. I don't want to bug my landlord (or, most likely, have to shell out myself) for a mast and proper antenna if it won't fix the problem. My problem is a complete loss of the channels on this mux, rather than simple sound drops, so I'm not really sure if this is the same issue.
(I must say I'm glad I came across this thread, been tearing my hair out for a few days over this, and it's always nice to know you're not alone.)
I don't think your issue is related to the one under discussion here. But what you very definitely should NOT have done is retune. Retuning when you lose channels is the option of last resort never ever the first thing you do.
You need to eliminate every other possible cause first. The problem is now that with no tuning data stored for these channels you have no way of knowing if the fault has been fixed or not.
You need to check out as much of the aerial system as you can. Check all aerial cables and connections are in good working order. If you are using cheap supermarket/poundshop leads then rip them out and use something decent. Preferably high quality double screened coax cable and good quality metal plugs.
If you have a wall plate where the cable from the aerial terminates unscrew it and check the cable termination. Make sure the screen braid is neatly clamped and there are no stray strands of braid leaking out that could touch the inner conductor.
Try and keep the aerial cable as physically separate from other cables as possible. People have reported interference between HDMI and aerial cables. Using good quality well screened cables will reduce any interference.
But basically check out the aerial system first and correct any faults with that and only if/when you run out of any other options do a retune. Except of course you've done the retune so can't easily tell if anything you do to the aerial system has corrected the fault. Unless you have the option to retune the TV on a known working aerial to get the missing channels back or can use a known working TV (without retuning!) on your aerial.