Solenoid, I didn't want to get involved in your little soapboxathon, but who died and made you Grand Poobah of Public Opinion?
It's not PC brigade nonsense for people to have a differing opinion than you. And you can't assume that because you would be up in arms about it that the rest of the country has the same views on the relevance of skin colour that you do any more than I can assume that everyone would be totally cool with it - as I would be.
Personal preference of appearence for a potential partner is somewhat different and I am sure you are not ignorant enough to believe that there is no difference between that and this debate.
I think it is a sad indictment of Britain if the majority of people stopped watching any show because of the colour of the lead actors skin. Especially in a programme that has always championed values which are clearly quite the antithesis of this view.
It's not PC brigade nonsense for people to have a differing opinion than you. And you can't assume that because you would be up in arms about it that the rest of the country has the same views on the relevance of skin colour that you do any more than I can assume that everyone would be totally cool with it - as I would be.
Hey, I'm not against people have differing opinions
I'm explaining why I think there isn't a strong enough case to cast an ethnic actor as the lead in DW. There are a number of other reasons why I think it a bad idea. But the "accessibility" one is sufficient.
I think it is a sad indictment of Britain if the majority of people stopped watching any show because of the colour of the lead actors skin. Especially in a programme that has always championed values which are clearly quite the antithesis of this view.
Won't it be embarrassing for the UK if that happened? I'd like to see if the Doctor being played by black actor would cause this. We're all sitting comfortable debating it when the UK is a hotbed of latent racism? We'll just have to wait and see if it'll happen. I'd be pretty much disgusted if it did.
in a year when it looks like america will be getting its first african american President, some people on here actually believe that having a black Doctor Who would be the downfall of the programme. I would laugh, if it didnt seem so sad.
BTW - I'm feeling depressed!:( Please tell me that I'm not living in Solenoid's vision of Great Britain? Please?:(
Ah thank goodness, otherwise I'm flirting with someone who's like a big sister to me!
I think Solenoid's Britain is a very sad place to be, and whilst I can't deny there are people who still think like that, I'm sure the majority of people (especially the unclouded young and embracing open-minded older fans of DW) would embrace a black Doctor. When we have British icons like Shirley Bassey, Lewis Hamilton, Lenny Henry, Sir Trevor etc, I think the British are more than willing to support talent of black origins.
in a year when it looks like america will be getting its first african american President, some people on here actually believe that having a black Doctor Who would be the downfall of the programme. I would laugh, if it didnt seem so sad.
I see what you're saying but got to say that my personal objection is based on the fact that because I love the show (David Tennant actually) sooo much I just don't want it to change. And also doesn't the fact that you mentioned BO's skin colour kinda prove the point. SKin colour is a factor in all these things
I see what you're saying but got to say that my personal objection is based on the fact that because I love the show (David Tennant actually) sooo much I just don't want it to change. And also doesn't the fact that you mentioned BO's skin colour kinda prove the point. SKin colour is a factor in all these things
It proves the point that the world is slowly but surely starting to grow up.
Racism has little to do with it. Racism is legally about impairing someone's automatic right. the right to do a job that requires a skill or experience is not based on race for example. In the world of creative arts - especially the more marketed ones - there is no automatic right. Entertainment is constructed using carefully selected components for an audience and that will depend on context.
So a programme targetting black people or Asians can consist entirely of black and Asian presenters focussing on issues that interest those groups.
Likewise with other "isms" - beautiful women or young people will appear in certain shows or adverts because that increases the accessibility of the "product" - you cannot describe "Skins" as ageist or the use of only beautiful (or at least very presentable) anchor women on news programmes as "uglism"
When was the last time you saw a 25 st granny present the national news? You could argue that by not having one the news is ageist/fatist.
The only problem is that the judicial system wouldn't recognise your complaint.
could you explain TORCHWOOD for me then oh wise one?
i mean, how many bi sexual yank ex pats do you know?
and yet somehow they get away with having one as the lead....
Racism has little to do with it. Racism is legally about impairing someone's automatic right. the right to do a job that requires a skill or experience is not based on race for example. In the world of creative arts - especially the more marketed ones - there is no automatic right. Entertainment is constructed using carefully selected components for an audience and that will depend on context.
So a programme targetting black people or Asians can consist entirely of black and Asian presenters focussing on issues that interest those groups.
Likewise with other "isms" - beautiful women or young people will appear in certain shows or adverts because that increases the accessibility of the "product" - you cannot describe "Skins" as ageist or the use of only beautiful (or at least very presentable) anchor women on news programmes as "uglism"
When was the last time you saw a 25 st granny present the national news? You could argue that by not having one the news is ageist/fatist.
The only problem is that the judicial system wouldn't recognise your complaint.
and just to clarify have you just equated having black skin with being fat, old and ugly?
when you donning the white hood?or is that just a pointy ghost costume?
It proves the point that the world is slowly but surely starting to grow up.
It isn't though. Despite years of campaigning we don't have equal number of normal looking women doing top jobs on TV. We have pretty people. People who have an aesthetic that presses the right buttons. That's because the human eye is discriminatory and prioritises based on shallow reasons.
He's the leader of the centre, but the stories often focus on other characters. DW rarely steps away from the Doctor character - and that's because of how they need to shoot two stories with the lead actor rarely appearing in one.
It isn't though. Despite years of campaigning we don't have equal number of normal looking women doing top jobs on TV. We have pretty people. People who have an aesthetic that presses the right buttons. That's because the human eye is discriminatory and prioritises based on shallow reasons.
I tend to disagree with you here. Fern Britton, all of the Loose Women, Catherine Tate, most of the women in the soaps, most of the newsreaders, Sharon Osborne, most of the TV presenters on all the major channels....in fact your 'pretty people'? who are these people???? People like Denise Van Outen ? well, the are pretty but normal too.....i think you either need to make a stronger point or get off the topic altogether.:)
It proves the point that the world is slowly but surely starting to grow up.
exactly, if america can actually vote an african american man to be their president, with all their troubles with racism in the past, then i think that we should almost not be having this discussion about a black man becoming a lead character in a programme. Yes i know people can talk about what they want on here which is cool but it all seems a bit infantile when it all comes down to it. I think the nay sayers are doing the british public a great diservice.
Fern Britton, all of the Loose Women, Catherine Tate, most of the women in the soaps, most of the newsreaders, Sharon Osborne, most of the TV presenters on all the major channels....in fact your 'pretty people'? who are these people????
Fern Britton has lost quite a bit of weight.
And the Loose Women are on at a time when either women "like themselves" are watching or out of work males are viewing. For which just seeing a female is adequate enough.
And the Loose Women are on at a time when either women "like themselves" are watching or out of work males are viewing. For which just seeing a female is adequate enough.
What a ridiculously sweeping statement to make, but then again that's all you've done so far. Now you're insulting unemployed people (why are they necessary desperate to see a woman? there are an awful lot of married/involved people without a job you know) and saying that only loose women watch loose women?
Now you're insulting unemployed people (why are they necessary desperate to see a woman? there are an awful lot of married/involved people without a job you know) and saying that only loose women watch loose women?
It is a rather particular time of day that it's scheduled. When chatty women at home like to watch gossiping women on TV.
It's not just unemployed single men watching I agree. Many older men will want to leer at the presenters but they're probably not too fussed either.
Comments
It's not PC brigade nonsense for people to have a differing opinion than you. And you can't assume that because you would be up in arms about it that the rest of the country has the same views on the relevance of skin colour that you do any more than I can assume that everyone would be totally cool with it - as I would be.
Personal preference of appearence for a potential partner is somewhat different and I am sure you are not ignorant enough to believe that there is no difference between that and this debate.
I think it is a sad indictment of Britain if the majority of people stopped watching any show because of the colour of the lead actors skin. Especially in a programme that has always championed values which are clearly quite the antithesis of this view.
I'm explaining why I think there isn't a strong enough case to cast an ethnic actor as the lead in DW. There are a number of other reasons why I think it a bad idea. But the "accessibility" one is sufficient.
I don't think someone like Adrian Lester would be inaccessible, he did really well in Hustle.
Won't it be embarrassing for the UK if that happened? I'd like to see if the Doctor being played by black actor would cause this. We're all sitting comfortable debating it when the UK is a hotbed of latent racism? We'll just have to wait and see if it'll happen. I'd be pretty much disgusted if it did.
Don't worry Amos! I ain't no Karen!:D
BTW - I'm feeling depressed!:( Please tell me that I'm not living in Solenoid's vision of Great Britain? Please?:(
Ah thank goodness, otherwise I'm flirting with someone who's like a big sister to me!
I think Solenoid's Britain is a very sad place to be, and whilst I can't deny there are people who still think like that, I'm sure the majority of people (especially the unclouded young and embracing open-minded older fans of DW) would embrace a black Doctor. When we have British icons like Shirley Bassey, Lewis Hamilton, Lenny Henry, Sir Trevor etc, I think the British are more than willing to support talent of black origins.
I see what you're saying but got to say that my personal objection is based on the fact that because I love the show (David Tennant actually) sooo much I just don't want it to change. And also doesn't the fact that you mentioned BO's skin colour kinda prove the point. SKin colour is a factor in all these things
It proves the point that the world is slowly but surely starting to grow up.
could you explain TORCHWOOD for me then oh wise one?
i mean, how many bi sexual yank ex pats do you know?
and yet somehow they get away with having one as the lead....
how does this fit into your skewed view?
and just to clarify have you just equated having black skin with being fat, old and ugly?
when you donning the white hood?or is that just a pointy ghost costume?
... no...but that won't stop you making plenty of accusations...
umm no, its not. Cap Jackis the lead.
people accuse you of things because you ask for it.
its not hard to read betwen the lines of what you say
Capt. Jack isn't American, he's from the Boeshane Peninsula.
I tend to disagree with you here. Fern Britton, all of the Loose Women, Catherine Tate, most of the women in the soaps, most of the newsreaders, Sharon Osborne, most of the TV presenters on all the major channels....in fact your 'pretty people'? who are these people???? People like Denise Van Outen ? well, the are pretty but normal too.....i think you either need to make a stronger point or get off the topic altogether.:)
exactly, if america can actually vote an african american man to be their president, with all their troubles with racism in the past, then i think that we should almost not be having this discussion about a black man becoming a lead character in a programme. Yes i know people can talk about what they want on here which is cool but it all seems a bit infantile when it all comes down to it. I think the nay sayers are doing the british public a great diservice.
And the Loose Women are on at a time when either women "like themselves" are watching or out of work males are viewing. For which just seeing a female is adequate enough.
What a ridiculously sweeping statement to make, but then again that's all you've done so far. Now you're insulting unemployed people (why are they necessary desperate to see a woman? there are an awful lot of married/involved people without a job you know) and saying that only loose women watch loose women?
It's not just unemployed single men watching I agree. Many older men will want to leer at the presenters but they're probably not too fussed either.
Apologies for the American crassness here, but who the h*ll pissed in your grits? :eek:
The broom you are sweeping people with is a little bigger than you are. I suggest you put it down before you hurt yourself. :rolleyes:
He has been portrayed as black in a comic series tho hasnt he?
Interpretation: Part 1: What is your problem?
Part 2: Time to sit down and be quiet before you get your head smacked.