She's entitled to do that but installing herself in the Vic, drink in hand flanked by Dean and Buster waiting for when everyone returned was like a very, vary nasty challenge.
I sincerely hope when all this comes out that Mick and Linda will never speak to Shirley again. She has dealt with this appallingly and she doesn't deserve any reconciliation with Mick. I know this won't happen but it should.
Totally agree. Mick had already said he was going to annihilate Dean, putting Dean front and centre like that was a red flag to a bull. If she's supposed to care so much about Dean she's not 'arf putting him in danger because Buster wouldn't be able to pull him off, not if Lee's pulling at him lol!
She's entitled to do that but installing herself in the Vic, drink in hand flanked by Dean and Buster waiting for when everyone returned was like a very, vary nasty challenge.
I sincerely hope when all this comes out that Mick and Linda will never speak to Shirley again. She has dealt with this appallingly and she doesn't deserve any reconciliation with Mick. I know this won't happen but it should.
This. I would dearly love for Shirley, Buster and Dean to be ostracised by everyone. It is what all three deserve for such a flagrantly provocative act towards Mick and Linda - flaunting themselves in the pub like that.
It's what Buster said last week to her - she uses other people as an excuse, not to face up to things she used Buster last week and Dean this week. It's all about her.
I cannot believe people are defending her taking Dean into the bar - even if she's a complete moron like people seem to think and believes poor widdle Dean is innocent, she at the very least believes that Dean slept with Linda and could be the father of her child. Why the hell would she hurt Mick like that? We know she doesn't give a damn about Linda, but what about her other son and her grandkids? She's an awful, selfish character.
I asked one of the writers who said that the whole time she had been 'torn' and doesn't know. But I assume the police not pressing charges (although only through lack of evidence) is enough to really allow her to believe in his innocence even if part of her is still unsure.
I could watch Shirley all day and never get bored of her. Like you said, she's really complex and that's what you need from an EastEnders character. Shirley is bitter, and takes no shit off anyone. She's standing by her son after years of being apart from him, and let's face it, there's no evidence that Dean raped Linda, so I think Shirley isn't really doing anything wrong. Besides, even if you do hate Shirley, you just have to admire Linda Henry in the role, she's fantastic! IF Linda ever leaves, it will be a HUGE loss to the show.
Shirley can be really vile sometimes. They are always ruining her. It's time she finds out about Dean before her character is destroyed for good.
Shirely is my favourite Carter, of course, but I do feel like I am just sitting through every episode waiting for her to discover the truth. I don't really know what they are playing at - I understand her believing Dean, (even though TPTB have failed to remember that Dean did attack Shirley once, and has been quite 'in her face' on more than one occasion when he has been angry at her - that you'd think she may question it more), if she disbelieved Dean and he turned out to be innocent then she would have let him down again, I think she is actually trying to be a mother now but she is in the position of constantly having to choose and is backing the wrong horse - unknowingly. I guess she sees that Mick has a family, he has a support network and is constantly telling her he doesn't need her or things can never be ok after the parentage reveal - whereas Dean is, accepting her more as his mother and really doesn't have anyone else. And as Lou said, there isn't any evidence and it is often forgotten that Shirley doesn't know what we do, she wasn't around in the aftermath either to see Linda's behaviour - if she had then she may have thought differently.
Matt DA is still filming so I am assuming that isn't going to come out for a long time yet, I am getting pretty fed up with it, I love Shirley - but I hate what the association with Dean is doing for her - DTC said we were getting a new era for Shirley and happier times ahead and I don't see how this can happen when Dean is still on the scene. Shirley and Kat are very similar in that TPTB always progress them 1 step forward, then push them 2 steps back - why?:o
I'd also like to see Shirley and Buster away from Dean, and in their own right, find out more about their history. They could potentially be a good couple (depending on how long Karl Howman is staying for) but this Dean lark is really putting the kibosh on the whole thing.
I think she did and like I've already said she'd have gained some respect from me if she had BUT she didn't. She decided to swerve it and go straight to the wake :kitty:
Frankly who can blame her? She probably fancied a stiff one
I'd also like to see Shirley and Buster away from Dean, and in their own right, find out more about their history. They could potentially be a good couple (depending on how long Karl Howman is staying for) but this Dean lark is really putting the kibosh on the whole thing.
Totally agree. I would like to see Shirley and Buster away from all the other Carters, hatching some plot and doing something mad together independently. I'm tired of Mick ranting and the whole Dean/rape story.
Totally agree. I would like to see Shirley and Buster away from all the other Carters, hatching some plot and doing something mad together independently. I'm tired of Mick ranting and the whole Dean/rape story.
Agreed! I'd like to see them in their own right, see them as a couple, find out their backstory. And like you say, see them away from the Carters hatching something, doing something crazy. Buster is obviously involved in crime and Shirley would fit right in! It would be brilliant to see them working together, stirring up trouble - a rivalry between Buster and Phil would be good, maybe become involved with Vincent - just something away from defending Dean. I would like to see more before Buster leaves - I don't know if he is permanent or not.
You're not the only one, I'm getting fed up with the whole rape story, Mick being angry and Dean constantly returning and dividing the family. It's not that I am saying rape isn't important because it is, but the story disinterests me now. I would rather have drama drama over misery drama.
I don't think Shirley has been destroyed by this but I don't want to see her character become permanently damaged because of the association with Dean. However if Ronnie can come back fighting after the mess that was the babyswap then Shirley can get through this!
WTF was that near the end of the episode, bringing Dean into the Vic when she knows what problems it will cause it's like, she likes hurting her family and Mick, I just wish we can have a break from this never ending drama, Shirley is selfish as f*ck and clearly doesn't give a sh*t about any one but herself,
the whole caring about Dean is more about her ego, she was a crap mother and doesn't want her child to be a rapist cause it reflect badly on her when she knows deep down it the truth.
Yep. Even in the cafe, it was all "i want to say goodbye to my Dad with both of you with me" regardless of how it would hurt other people. She is so selfish.
How does she think turning up to the wake with Dean and Buster is any more acceptable than going to the Service?
Why didn't she go then? I'd have had some respect for her if she'd turned up at the funeral but no because she is incapable of doing the right thing and of course there was much more misery to be had if her and the rapist are already installed in the Vic when the family return
Yes i agree.
Mick didn't really have a right to ban her or Dean from the Service, especially as they'd paid for some of it. Stan was her father too. They should all have agreed just to keep their distance at the Crematorium, put aside their differences for Stan's memory as he loved all of them.
But Shirley's argument wasn't about Stan's memory, it was about what SHE wanted.
But not going to that, showing respect in the appropriate place in a dignified manner and instead just ambushing the wake is low.
I think she does as well. She's heard Dean talk about girls saying no when they mean yes. She kept Lola away from Dean, why if she didn't have doubts about his innocence?
I am very aware that we know more than the other characters, that is why i'm not so down on people like Stan, Ian having doubts but they haven't talked to Linda and Dean as closely as Shirley has.
I think she is clutching at straws, she doesn't want to believe it (understandably) to is refusing to despite what her gut instinct is telling her.
I don't think Shirley has been destroyed by this but I don't want to see her character become permanently damaged because of the association with Dean. However if Ronnie can come back fighting after the mess that was the babyswap then Shirley can get through this!
I'm a Shirley fan (as you know) so her character can't be ruined for me. She certainly riles some people up on this forum but I think you have to have a sense of humour when it comes to EE. That's why the worse they behave the more I love Shirley and Phil. People get so caught up in judging on some sort of moral highground they don't appreciate the outrageous drama and humour of it all.
As far as Dean goes I'm beginning to wish they would kill him off as I'm not a fan of the beardy weirdy look. Unfortunately it doesn't seem as if this will happen any time soon. My guess is that we will see a slow deterioration of his character with everything going wrong for him, leading to some sort of mental breakdown and desperate action on his part before his eventual departure from Walford.
Shirley has always been her own worst enemy...nothing new there, and last night was probably no exception.:D
However Dean is not going to be charged, so those who believed all along in his innocence believe that they were in the right ....Dean = innocent, Linda = liar who made dreadful allegations and tried to ruin his life in order to cover up an affair. It's perfectly understandable that those who believe in his innocence, and who feel that they were right all along, are going to support him as he gets his life back on track. Even Ian indicated that he believed in his innocence, and he's surely not the only one in the community.
It's not pleasant to watch, but that's because we know the truth. If Linda had been the liar in all this we would have been defending his right to go where he likes.
Maybe Shirley should have just gatecrashed the funeral, but she at least stayed with her father while he was dying and has tried to respect his dying wish to keep the family together, which we know is going to prove impossible. Her sons are never going to kiss and make up.
I wish it would all just end now...enough is enough.
You'd think she'd consider Mick even if she believes Dean though. She's banged on about how she loves him /he's her baby but then completely disregards his feelings for poor widdle Dean.
>:( >:(
I'm a Shirley fan (as you know) so her character can't be ruined for me. She certainly riles some people up on this forum but I think you have to have a sense of humour when it comes to EE. That's why the worse they behave the more I love Shirley and Phil. People get so caught up in judging on some sort of moral highground they don't appreciate the outrageous drama and humour of it all.
As far as Dean goes I'm beginning to wish they would kill him off as I'm not a fan of the beardy weirdy look. Unfortunately it doesn't seem as if this will happen any time soon. My guess is that we will see a slow deterioration of his character with everything going wrong for him, leading to some sort of mental breakdown and desperate action on his part before his eventual departure from Walford.
I am a Shirley fan aswell and like you say, she can't be ruined for me either but the association with Dean could cause a lot of damage to her character for casual viewers. She has generated a lot of backlash from the story and definitely riles up people - I imagine that tptb would have expected this when they wrote it this way though. I do see your point, a lot of people can become so emotionally invested in what is happening that what it actually is, gets lost.
're Dean, I concur. He really needs to leave now, I don't know what they were thinking trying to drag out Dean's departure for such a long period of time. When Shirley wavered back in Feb, that should have been his exit and the point where she realised 100% what he had done. Going down the mental health route is a good idea in theory but it doesn't translate well onscreen and mental health is such a mindfield that it is difficult to get right. I really want the story to end but with Matt still filming, I am not holding out much hope.
Shirley has always been her own worst enemy...nothing new there, and last night was probably no exception.:D
However Dean is not going to be charged, so those who believed all along in his innocence believe that they were in the right ....Dean = innocent, Linda = liar who made dreadful allegations and tried to ruin his life in order to cover up an affair. It's perfectly understandable that those who believe in his innocence, and who feel that they were right all along, are going to support him as he gets his life back on track. Even Ian indicated that he believed in his innocence, and he's surely not the only one in the community.
It's not pleasant to watch, but that's because we know the truth. If Linda had been the liar in all this we would have been defending his right to go where he likes.
Maybe Shirley should have just gatecrashed the funeral, but she at least stayed with her father while he was dying and has tried to respect his dying wish to keep the family together, which we know is going to prove impossible. Her sons are never going to kiss and make up.
I wish it would all just end now...enough is enough.
Comments
Haha, you should work for the CIA
Mo Mouse is in a better place where fun threads don't get banished to the Games Room. :cool:
Totally agree. Mick had already said he was going to annihilate Dean, putting Dean front and centre like that was a red flag to a bull. If she's supposed to care so much about Dean she's not 'arf putting him in danger because Buster wouldn't be able to pull him off, not if Lee's pulling at him lol!
Bloody ridiculous decision.
Well it's Shirley innit
This. I would dearly love for Shirley, Buster and Dean to be ostracised by everyone. It is what all three deserve for such a flagrantly provocative act towards Mick and Linda - flaunting themselves in the pub like that.
I just think the whole rape plot had really ruined what were once a brilliant family:(.
I have to admit though, for me they did start to lose their spark a bit before then...
It's what Buster said last week to her - she uses other people as an excuse, not to face up to things she used Buster last week and Dean this week. It's all about her.
I cannot believe people are defending her taking Dean into the bar - even if she's a complete moron like people seem to think and believes poor widdle Dean is innocent, she at the very least believes that Dean slept with Linda and could be the father of her child. Why the hell would she hurt Mick like that? We know she doesn't give a damn about Linda, but what about her other son and her grandkids? She's an awful, selfish character.
Since when is a rapist entitled to be in his victim's home?
I asked one of the writers who said that the whole time she had been 'torn' and doesn't know. But I assume the police not pressing charges (although only through lack of evidence) is enough to really allow her to believe in his innocence even if part of her is still unsure.
Brilliant post! Completely agree.
Shirely is my favourite Carter, of course, but I do feel like I am just sitting through every episode waiting for her to discover the truth. I don't really know what they are playing at - I understand her believing Dean, (even though TPTB have failed to remember that Dean did attack Shirley once, and has been quite 'in her face' on more than one occasion when he has been angry at her - that you'd think she may question it more), if she disbelieved Dean and he turned out to be innocent then she would have let him down again, I think she is actually trying to be a mother now but she is in the position of constantly having to choose and is backing the wrong horse - unknowingly. I guess she sees that Mick has a family, he has a support network and is constantly telling her he doesn't need her or things can never be ok after the parentage reveal - whereas Dean is, accepting her more as his mother and really doesn't have anyone else. And as Lou said, there isn't any evidence and it is often forgotten that Shirley doesn't know what we do, she wasn't around in the aftermath either to see Linda's behaviour - if she had then she may have thought differently.
Matt DA is still filming so I am assuming that isn't going to come out for a long time yet, I am getting pretty fed up with it, I love Shirley - but I hate what the association with Dean is doing for her - DTC said we were getting a new era for Shirley and happier times ahead and I don't see how this can happen when Dean is still on the scene. Shirley and Kat are very similar in that TPTB always progress them 1 step forward, then push them 2 steps back - why?:o
I'd also like to see Shirley and Buster away from Dean, and in their own right, find out more about their history. They could potentially be a good couple (depending on how long Karl Howman is staying for) but this Dean lark is really putting the kibosh on the whole thing.
Totally agree. I would like to see Shirley and Buster away from all the other Carters, hatching some plot and doing something mad together independently. I'm tired of Mick ranting and the whole Dean/rape story.
Her character was destroyed a long time ago
We can take bets of when this happened?
Agreed! I'd like to see them in their own right, see them as a couple, find out their backstory. And like you say, see them away from the Carters hatching something, doing something crazy. Buster is obviously involved in crime and Shirley would fit right in! It would be brilliant to see them working together, stirring up trouble - a rivalry between Buster and Phil would be good, maybe become involved with Vincent - just something away from defending Dean. I would like to see more before Buster leaves - I don't know if he is permanent or not.
You're not the only one, I'm getting fed up with the whole rape story, Mick being angry and Dean constantly returning and dividing the family. It's not that I am saying rape isn't important because it is, but the story disinterests me now. I would rather have drama drama over misery drama.
I don't think Shirley has been destroyed by this but I don't want to see her character become permanently damaged because of the association with Dean. However if Ronnie can come back fighting after the mess that was the babyswap then Shirley can get through this!
Yep. Even in the cafe, it was all "i want to say goodbye to my Dad with both of you with me" regardless of how it would hurt other people. She is so selfish.
How does she think turning up to the wake with Dean and Buster is any more acceptable than going to the Service?
Yes i agree.
Mick didn't really have a right to ban her or Dean from the Service, especially as they'd paid for some of it. Stan was her father too. They should all have agreed just to keep their distance at the Crematorium, put aside their differences for Stan's memory as he loved all of them.
But Shirley's argument wasn't about Stan's memory, it was about what SHE wanted.
But not going to that, showing respect in the appropriate place in a dignified manner and instead just ambushing the wake is low.
I think she does as well. She's heard Dean talk about girls saying no when they mean yes. She kept Lola away from Dean, why if she didn't have doubts about his innocence?
I am very aware that we know more than the other characters, that is why i'm not so down on people like Stan, Ian having doubts but they haven't talked to Linda and Dean as closely as Shirley has.
I think she is clutching at straws, she doesn't want to believe it (understandably) to is refusing to despite what her gut instinct is telling her.
I'm a Shirley fan (as you know) so her character can't be ruined for me. She certainly riles some people up on this forum but I think you have to have a sense of humour when it comes to EE. That's why the worse they behave the more I love Shirley and Phil.
As far as Dean goes I'm beginning to wish they would kill him off as I'm not a fan of the beardy weirdy look. Unfortunately it doesn't seem as if this will happen any time soon. My guess is that we will see a slow deterioration of his character with everything going wrong for him, leading to some sort of mental breakdown and desperate action on his part before his eventual departure from Walford.
However Dean is not going to be charged, so those who believed all along in his innocence believe that they were in the right ....Dean = innocent, Linda = liar who made dreadful allegations and tried to ruin his life in order to cover up an affair. It's perfectly understandable that those who believe in his innocence, and who feel that they were right all along, are going to support him as he gets his life back on track. Even Ian indicated that he believed in his innocence, and he's surely not the only one in the community.
It's not pleasant to watch, but that's because we know the truth. If Linda had been the liar in all this we would have been defending his right to go where he likes.
Maybe Shirley should have just gatecrashed the funeral, but she at least stayed with her father while he was dying and has tried to respect his dying wish to keep the family together, which we know is going to prove impossible. Her sons are never going to kiss and make up.
I wish it would all just end now...enough is enough.
>:( >:(
I am a Shirley fan aswell and like you say, she can't be ruined for me either but the association with Dean could cause a lot of damage to her character for casual viewers. She has generated a lot of backlash from the story and definitely riles up people - I imagine that tptb would have expected this when they wrote it this way though. I do see your point, a lot of people can become so emotionally invested in what is happening that what it actually is, gets lost.
're Dean, I concur. He really needs to leave now, I don't know what they were thinking trying to drag out Dean's departure for such a long period of time. When Shirley wavered back in Feb, that should have been his exit and the point where she realised 100% what he had done. Going down the mental health route is a good idea in theory but it doesn't translate well onscreen and mental health is such a mindfield that it is difficult to get right. I really want the story to end but with Matt still filming, I am not holding out much hope.
Brilliant post, completely agree.