So you prefer definitive statements like "we will have a currency union" "and we will stay members of the EU" that have no basis in fact to statements that cover for the possibility that it cannot be guaranteed?
The accusation thrown at the yes side is its a big leap into the unknown. Sounds as if these alleged extra powers that nobody knows yet what they are is also as leap into the unknown.
Yes & I suspect that, should Scotland vote for independence, the North of England may seek some sort of devolution. In fact, that may happen even if they vote No. Too many people are now just fed up with London hoovering up all the nation's wealth.
I heard a few minutes of a programme on BBC R Scotland at lunchtime. They interviewed a man, who despite being born in England, was enthusiastic about independence.
He had experience of the health and education systems on both sides of the border and felt Scotland won on both.
The only time London cares about the North is election time.
what do you think is going to happen when they inevitably fail to produce powers that will satisfy Scotland?
surely an amicable split now is preferable to the chaos that will ensue when we realise they cannot keep their promise?
Amicable? Unlikely as the SNP have lied to you that the UK will join a currency union with you, and when it's refused, as it will be, no doubt they'll react with fury at Westminster bullying Scotland, or something of that nature. They have to try and make it sound like Westminster is being spiteful to Scotland, the alternative being to admit they lied to you, and they won't do that.
The accusation thrown at the yes side is its a big leap into the unknown. Sounds as if these alleged extra powers that nobody knows yet what they are is also as leap into the unknown.
Not really. This has been pretty much big news and any politicians not following through on the promises made would suffer on both sides of the border. What has been said for devolution can be done, you are doubting that it will be done. Salmonds 'guarantees' are not his to make as they are decisions he is not responsible for.
Why don't you just vote them out like you've done every other time you've chosen to elect a Labour government? You don't need us to win, you never have.
Silly me, I thought Labour had won two elections whilst in power in the last fifteen years....
The No campaign has been complacent and at times shambolic for sure. However, as a marketing guy on C4 News said yesterday, they actually had a much more difficult job. They are defending reality, history, experience which has many warts and in which many mistakes have been made. Some things coukd have been done better, some worse. Yes are peddling a dream turbocharged on nationalism and emotion, and it's very hard to critique something thst doesn't exist. I shiver when I hear some of the ludicrous promises made by Salmond and the pie-in-the-sky assumptions he makes. I'm staggered how so many can be taken in by it but then I'm staggered at what people brainwashed by religiondo. And that stops well short of jihadi.
One guy in Edinburgh said he was definitely a Yes. He thought it would be a complete mess but preferred a mess of Scotland's own making. He was also convinced the result would be no, and if it wasn't would wake up on Friday and say 'shit, what have we done?!'
I predict a Yes result purely because if it's as tight as predicted, their superior organisation will deliver on the day in terms of getting their vote out. I'm an old campaigner and have seen this many times
The No campaign has been complacent and at times shambolic for sure. However, as a marketing guy on C4 News said yesterday, they actually had a much more difficult job. They are defending reality, history, experience which has many warts and in which many mistakes have been made. Some things coukd have been done better, some worse. Yes are peddling a dream turbocharged on nationalism and emotion, and it's very hard to critique something thst doesn't exist. I shiver when I hear some of the ludicrous promises made by Salmond and the pie-in-the-sky assumptions he makes. I'm staggered how so many can be taken in by it but then I'm staggered at what people brainwashed by religiondo. And that stops well short of jihadi.
One guy in Edinburgh said he was definitely a Yes. He thought it would be a complete mess but preferred a mess of Scotland's own making. He was also convinced the result would be no, and if it wasn't would wake up on Friday and say 'shit, what have we done?!'
I predict a Yes result purely because if it's as tight as predicted, their superior organisation will deliver on the day in terms of getting their vote out. I'm an old campaigner and have seen this many times
A very thoughtful post, thank you . What I don't understand, is if the Yes voters are as intelligent as Salmond says they are, why are they taken in by him ? !
Amicable? Unlikely as the SNP have lied to you that the UK will join a currency union with you, and when it's refused, as it will be, no doubt they'll react with fury at Westminster bullying Scotland, or something of that nature. They have to try and make it sound like Westminster is being spiteful to Scotland, the alternative being to admit they lied to you, and they won't do that.
Spot on.
Anyone who believes it's going to be a walk in the park will have a very rude awakening, especially if the Tories are in the southern driving seat. They have absolutely no motive whatsoever to give Salmond anything at all. If one thing guarantees my vote being Tory next year it will be a Yes in Scotland.
The No campaign has been complacent and at times shambolic for sure. However, as a marketing guy on C4 News said yesterday, they actually had a much more difficult job. They are defending reality, history, experience which has many warts and in which many mistakes have been made. Some things coukd have been done better, some worse. Yes are peddling a dream turbocharged on nationalism and emotion, and it's very hard to critique something thst doesn't exist. I shiver when I hear some of the ludicrous promises made by Salmond and the pie-in-the-sky assumptions he makes. I'm staggered how so many can be taken in by it but then I'm staggered at what people brainwashed by religiondo. And that stops well short of jihadi.
One guy in Edinburgh said he was definitely a Yes. He thought it would be a complete mess but preferred a mess of Scotland's own making. He was also convinced the result would be no, and if it wasn't would wake up on Friday and say 'shit, what have we done?!'
I predict a Yes result purely because if it's as tight as predicted, their superior organisation will deliver on the day in terms of getting their vote out. I'm an old campaigner and have seen this many times
If I lived in Scotland I would not be voting YES out of "nationalism and emotion". Just a desire to escape from the dead hand of Westminster and "payback" for what started in 1979.
I hope Scotland have the courage to vote for independence, it will give hope to the North after being abandoned by London.
I heard a few minutes of a programme on BBC R Scotland at lunchtime. They interviewed a man, who despite being born in England, was enthusiastic about independence.
He had experience of the health and education systems on both sides of the border and felt Scotland won on both.
The only time London cares about the North is election time.
I heard some fellow on R Scotland this morning. He was saying how much he liked Scotland, but how much terrible deprivation there is, how much social injustice there is, how wonderful Salmond is and what a great thing it would be if we leave the UK. He was called Brian Cox and he lives in New York, presumably he is well insulated from the fallout.
Someone on the radio did make a good point the other day regarding so called negotiations.
What would Alex Salmond do when he shows up at Westminster with his list of demands and Westminster said No to everything? I know Salmond would start blabbering about the 'sovereign will of the people' or something but for 1 second here, If Westminster said No to everything. Does he even have a backup plan? He'd sit there twiddling his fingers.
It's gone beyond reasonable. This is no longer about what is best for Scotland , her people, her employment , her businesses her future. It is now about a grassroots tearing this country apart regardless of the seeds of division socially and economically, regardless of the possible consequences of financial upheaval , unemployment etc.
It is apparent that in the last 20 years we have negotiated a Scottish parliament, we have negotiated a better devolved deal and benefits the rest of the UK can only dream about , we are in the perfect position to call all the shots to the UK government for a complety perfect scenario, but not enough, we are still prepared for a wee bit of hill and glen, to call freedom, to yell sovereignty , see jobs homes educations and futures jeopardised.
I despair. It really is part of the Celtic suicidal mindset.
And I could not care less about the abuse I receive for posting my opinion.
I heard a few minutes of a programme on BBC R Scotland at lunchtime. They interviewed a man, who despite being born in England, was enthusiastic about independence.
He had experience of the health and education systems on both sides of the border and felt Scotland won on both.
The only time London cares about the North is election time.
Please don't use the term London when you mean Westminster. Londoners - with the exception of Boris - are as left of centre as Scots for the most part.
"The online poll of 2,163 Scottish readers of Europe's largest LGBT news service PinkNews found that 54% plan to vote Yes in Thursday's referendum - with 56% of Labour voters for independence.
The poll also found 44% plan to vote No while 2% remain undecided."
England alone (never mind the rest of the UK) has 10 times the population of Scotland and a $2trillion economy. In the event of a yes vote, Scotland will have very little to bargain with when it comes to negotiating the 'divorce', and will, in reality be at the mercy of Westminster. It would be ironic if a yes vote actually turned out to be beneficial to the English and detrimental to the Scottish - but then Alex Salmond won't care, because he'll have his victory, no matter how hollow it is.
Dont you worry Tony. Salmond and Sillars are going to teach those nasty banks and evil big companies a lesson they wont forget. He is going to hound them out of the country, in fact some are already packing ! Happy days eh Tony !?
Now, we all appreciate that you and the truth are absolute strangers and that you get your jollies by inventing we tales of woe.
But do you not think that it would be an idea, if you're making something up, to at least put a wee bit of effort into creating something which folks might well actually believe - you know something which hasn't already been covered in the press, something which isn't immediately obvious crap.
Salmond had nothing to do with what SIllars said and has already said so.
Not really. This has been pretty much big news and any politicians not following through on the promises made would suffer on both sides of the border. What has been said for devolution can be done, you are doubting that it will be done. Salmonds 'guarantees' are not his to make as they are decisions he is not responsible for.
You mean just like Nick Clegg and his signed pledge to oppose tuition fees?
It's gone beyond reasonable. This is no longer about what is best for Scotland , her people, her employment , her businesses her future. It is now about a grassroots tearing this country apart regardless of the seeds of division socially and economically, regardless of the possible consequences of financial upheaval , unemployment etc.
It is apparent that in the last 20 years we have negotiated a Scottish parliament, we have negotiated a better devolved deal and benefits the rest of the UK can only dream about , we are in the perfect position to call all the shots to the UK government for a complety perfect scenario, but not enough, we are still prepared for a wee bit of hill and glen, to call freedom, to yell sovereignty , see jobs homes educations and futures jeopardised.
I despair. It really is part of the Celtic suicidal mindset.
And I could not care less about the abuse I receive for posting my opinion.
England alone (never mind the rest of the UK) has 10 times the population of Scotland and a $2trillion economy. In the event of a yes vote, Scotland will have very little to bargain with when it comes to negotiating the 'divorce', and will, in reality be at the mercy of Westminster. It would be ironic if a yes vote actually turned out to be beneficial to the English and detrimental to the Scottish - but then Alex Salmond won't care, because he'll have his victory, no matter how hollow it is.
Well as long as he's happy being the virtual president of Scotland that's all that really matters isn't it ? !
"The online poll of 2,163 Scottish readers of Europe's largest LGBT news service PinkNews found that 54% plan to vote Yes in Thursday's referendum - with 56% of Labour voters for independence.
The poll also found 44% plan to vote No while 2% remain undecided."
I utterly loath Cameron But If the YES vote wins. Miliband's role in all this cant be ignored the I know around here its only because people like the local MP she's safe but has been told numerous times people cant stand Ed Miliband.
It was just being spoken about on sky's paper review how the game changer was the former labour voters basically ignoring the warning and just seeing the vision of a Scotland they don't have to worry about the Tories anymore.
Key Failures I see from the NO camp
Cameron should have debated with Salmond for the prime minister to duck that was just shocking.
Ed Miliband's had years to stamp some sort of authority over what leader he can be
Yet you see Kinnock on the local news (Neil's son) and he comes across more of a leader than Ed ever will.
Ed should have given labour voters enough confidence to trust him and realise without them labour wont ever be elected as a main political party again drawing them into seeing how important they are to the entire UK. Yet he cant even admit that
Comments
The accusation thrown at the yes side is its a big leap into the unknown. Sounds as if these alleged extra powers that nobody knows yet what they are is also as leap into the unknown.
I am truly shocked
I heard a few minutes of a programme on BBC R Scotland at lunchtime. They interviewed a man, who despite being born in England, was enthusiastic about independence.
He had experience of the health and education systems on both sides of the border and felt Scotland won on both.
The only time London cares about the North is election time.
Amicable? Unlikely as the SNP have lied to you that the UK will join a currency union with you, and when it's refused, as it will be, no doubt they'll react with fury at Westminster bullying Scotland, or something of that nature. They have to try and make it sound like Westminster is being spiteful to Scotland, the alternative being to admit they lied to you, and they won't do that.
One guy in Edinburgh said he was definitely a Yes. He thought it would be a complete mess but preferred a mess of Scotland's own making. He was also convinced the result would be no, and if it wasn't would wake up on Friday and say 'shit, what have we done?!'
I predict a Yes result purely because if it's as tight as predicted, their superior organisation will deliver on the day in terms of getting their vote out. I'm an old campaigner and have seen this many times
Salmond will have no option but to bring in austeritymax.
A very thoughtful post, thank you . What I don't understand, is if the Yes voters are as intelligent as Salmond says they are, why are they taken in by him ? !
Spot on.
Anyone who believes it's going to be a walk in the park will have a very rude awakening, especially if the Tories are in the southern driving seat. They have absolutely no motive whatsoever to give Salmond anything at all. If one thing guarantees my vote being Tory next year it will be a Yes in Scotland.
If I lived in Scotland I would not be voting YES out of "nationalism and emotion". Just a desire to escape from the dead hand of Westminster and "payback" for what started in 1979.
I hope Scotland have the courage to vote for independence, it will give hope to the North after being abandoned by London.
I heard some fellow on R Scotland this morning. He was saying how much he liked Scotland, but how much terrible deprivation there is, how much social injustice there is, how wonderful Salmond is and what a great thing it would be if we leave the UK. He was called Brian Cox and he lives in New York, presumably he is well insulated from the fallout.
What would Alex Salmond do when he shows up at Westminster with his list of demands and Westminster said No to everything? I know Salmond would start blabbering about the 'sovereign will of the people' or something but for 1 second here, If Westminster said No to everything. Does he even have a backup plan? He'd sit there twiddling his fingers.
It is apparent that in the last 20 years we have negotiated a Scottish parliament, we have negotiated a better devolved deal and benefits the rest of the UK can only dream about , we are in the perfect position to call all the shots to the UK government for a complety perfect scenario, but not enough, we are still prepared for a wee bit of hill and glen, to call freedom, to yell sovereignty , see jobs homes educations and futures jeopardised.
I despair. It really is part of the Celtic suicidal mindset.
And I could not care less about the abuse I receive for posting my opinion.
Please don't use the term London when you mean Westminster. Londoners - with the exception of Boris - are as left of centre as Scots for the most part.
"The online poll of 2,163 Scottish readers of Europe's largest LGBT news service PinkNews found that 54% plan to vote Yes in Thursday's referendum - with 56% of Labour voters for independence.
The poll also found 44% plan to vote No while 2% remain undecided."
Now, we all appreciate that you and the truth are absolute strangers and that you get your jollies by inventing we tales of woe.
But do you not think that it would be an idea, if you're making something up, to at least put a wee bit of effort into creating something which folks might well actually believe - you know something which hasn't already been covered in the press, something which isn't immediately obvious crap.
Salmond had nothing to do with what SIllars said and has already said so.
You mean just like Nick Clegg and his signed pledge to oppose tuition fees?
Good post, I agree with you 100 %
Limp Dems have long sinced ceased to be a credible party, they are nothing but a bunch of yes men.
Well as long as he's happy being the virtual president of Scotland that's all that really matters isn't it ? !
I utterly loath Cameron But If the YES vote wins. Miliband's role in all this cant be ignored the I know around here its only because people like the local MP she's safe but has been told numerous times people cant stand Ed Miliband.
It was just being spoken about on sky's paper review how the game changer was the former labour voters basically ignoring the warning and just seeing the vision of a Scotland they don't have to worry about the Tories anymore.
Key Failures I see from the NO camp
Cameron should have debated with Salmond for the prime minister to duck that was just shocking.
Ed Miliband's had years to stamp some sort of authority over what leader he can be
Yet you see Kinnock on the local news (Neil's son) and he comes across more of a leader than Ed ever will.
Ed should have given labour voters enough confidence to trust him and realise without them labour wont ever be elected as a main political party again drawing them into seeing how important they are to the entire UK. Yet he cant even admit that