I am of the opinion that there are kids out there who are said to have ADHD who in fact just need a good hard discipline
That is not saying ADHD doesnt exist , it does of course but the kids who dont have it are taking away from those who genuinely do /
Resources are spread thinly and the genuine kids with needs have to share the time and resources with kids who in fact need good parenting and discipline .
QUOTE]
I agree with this. I think it exists but I think it majorly over diagnosed.
We see a lot of kids with the diagnosis and i would say a good 80% of the time they are the way they are because of poor parenting. Often giving the parents basic discipline skills suffices. We also get many parents in pushing us for a diagnosis of ADHD when in reality there is nothing wrong with their child. That is of course not to say that every child with ADHD is that way because of parenting, there are of course excellent parents with children who have ADHD.
OP, have you been to your local child meantl health service?
I am of the opinion that there are kids out there who are said to have ADHD who in fact just need a good hard discipline
That is not saying ADHD doesnt exist , it does of course but the kids who dont have it are taking away from those who genuinely do /
Resources are spread thinly and the genuine kids with needs have to share the time and resources with kids who in fact need good parenting and discipline .
QUOTE]
I agree with this. I think it exists but I think it majorly over diagnosed.
We see a lot of kids with the diagnosis and i would say a good 80% of the time they are the way they are because of poor parenting. Often giving the parents basic discipline skills suffices. We also get many parents in pushing us for a diagnosis of ADHD when in reality there is nothing wrong with their child. That is of course not to say that every child with ADHD is that way because of parenting, there are of course excellent parents with children who have ADHD.
OP, have you been to your local child meantl health service?
wow - I cannot imagine why anyone would want to have their kid diagnosed with ADHD. Its just not in my comprehension. As I say when my wson was diagnosed I was really shocked. I dont know why looking back but I guess it had never crossed my mind.
he is seeing CAMHS at school starting after half term.
wow - I cannot imagine why anyone would want to have their kid diagnosed with ADHD. Its just not in my comprehension. As I say when my wson was diagnosed I was really shocked. I dont know why looking back but I guess it had never crossed my mind.
he is seeing CAMHS at school starting after half term.
Not sure what's gone wrong with these quotes!
I guess perhaps some parents want the diagnosis because it gives them an excuse to not have to deal with problems they've created in their own children. Of course they are ignorant to the illness and if they weren't wouldn't wish it on their children.
It's good that you are at CAMHS, they should be able to get him the help he needs and you can always enquire about indicidual therapy for you, to teach you coping techniques and ways to deal with his behaviour.
I am of the opinion that there are kids out there who are said to have ADHD who in fact just need a good hard discipline
That is not saying ADHD doesnt exist , it does of course but the kids who dont have it are taking away from those who genuinely do /
Resources are spread thinly and the genuine kids with needs have to share the time and resources with kids who in fact need good parenting and discipline .
QUOTE]
I agree with this. I think it exists but I think it majorly over diagnosed.
We see a lot of kids with the diagnosis and i would say a good 80% of the time they are the way they are because of poor parenting.
But what qualifies any of us (who are not doctors) to make that assumption?
I agree that sometimes it does appear that kids diagnosed with ADHD are simply badly behaved, or have bad parents. However, just because it looks that way, doesn't mean it is that way, and you are not qualified to make the decision.
Unless you have walked in a person's shoes and lived their lives, you can't possibly know or understand the problems they have.
All you see is a snapshot, or an account of their problems. You aren't there for the hospital visits, consultations with psychiatrists etc, and you don't know what has led to the diagnosis.
But what qualifies any of us (who are not doctors) to make that assumption?
I agree that sometimes it does appear that kids diagnosed with ADHD are simply badly behaved, or have bad parents. However, just because it looks that way, doesn't mean it is that way, and you are not qualified to make the decision.
Unless you have walked in a person's shoes and lived their lives, you can't possibly know or understand the problems they have.
All you see is a snapshot, or an account of their problems. You aren't there for the hospital visits, consultations with psychiatrists etc, and you don't know what has led to the diagnosis.
Also, many kids with ADHD will have crap parents. It's not mutually exclusive.
I think you have wrongly quoted me I only wrote the first half of that post .Just to clear that with you !!
I am also not sure why people would want to label a child but I do know my own neighbour would throw out that her son had " a touch " of ADH .That made me laugh out loud to be honest as the same child had not a " touch " of anything except a complete lack of any form of discipline .He was of course never diagnosed and only the mother would use the term .
I wanted to stay away from this thread as I am not being understood , but I need to clear my name as one poster completly took me up wrong .I am quite sure the syndrome is real and even going back to my childhood in the 60's I remember a child being spoken of as hyperactive /
What I also know is it is on the increase and IMO its in the food chain or in something we are using now that wasnt used before now .ie maybe electronics , food, waste , aerosols etcetc
As I have said before those kids who parents use the label as an excuse do their own child a huge disservice and the children who are genuinely living with the condition an even bigger one by using the services and abusing it too .
I hope that clears my viewpoint up as the last thing I want is to be seen to be disagreeing with you .
But what qualifies any of us (who are not doctors) to make that assumption?
I agree that sometimes it does appear that kids diagnosed with ADHD are simply badly behaved, or have bad parents. However, just because it looks that way, doesn't mean it is that way, and you are not qualified to make the decision.
Unless you have walked in a person's shoes and lived their lives, you can't possibly know or understand the problems they have.
All you see is a snapshot, or an account of their problems. You aren't there for the hospital visits, consultations with psychiatrists etc, and you don't know what has led to the diagnosis.
I was misquoted ., the last part of the post you answered was not written by me
I didnt think that of you at all, I seem to remember you are a paeds nurse?
I agree that people who are not diagnosed with it having their parents claim they have it does a huge disservice to those with it.
I have to say according to the SENCO at my sons school he is the only child in the primary that is diagnosed with it, which suprised me as I had thought it more widespread (the books I have read say 2-5 per cent of the school going population)
I didnt think that of you at all, I seem to remember you are a paeds nurse?
I agree that people who are not diagnosed with it having their parents claim they have it does a huge disservice to those with it.
I have to say according to the SENCO at my sons school he is the only child in the primary that is diagnosed with it, which suprised me as I had thought it more widespread (the books I have read say 2-5 per cent of the school going population)
Whew !!! At least I am being understood now despite the whole qoutes being all over the shop !!
Maybe your son will get more help if he is the only one and doesnt have to share the resources , I do hope so .
Also, many kids with ADHD will have crap parents. It's not mutually exclusive.
Yes I'm sure that's the case.
My point was about people who see something from the outside, and feel qualified to dismiss the issue as bad parenting, even if they accept that other instances of ADHD may be real.
There are instances of misdiagoses of most conditions, physical and mental, and I'm sure that includes ADHD. However, only a doctor is qualified to make a decision as to which people have been misdiagnosed.
I just think that it would help the stigma that surrounds mental health (not just ADHD) if people were not so judgmental, and instead, accepted their lack of qualification on the subject, and recognise that things are not always what they seem.
I did, your post seemed to describe someone who does not have a formal diagnosis. There's a formal diagnosis, and then there's someone just saying it. They're two very different things.
So I stand by my post.
This isn't really a subject you can 'have an opinion on', if you do not know anything about it. Well, I suppose you can, but the opinion is worthless.
This isn't about putting a label. This is about children who have certain symptomatology that is atypical developmentally compared to other children...and then helping them cope with it.
Better parenting will not change the fact that a child with ADHD does not produce enough Dopa 2 for example...
Of course they can be wrong, but you don't get to a consensus amongst doctors, researchers, developmental psychologists, teachers, geneticists, neuroscientists ..and so on, without there actually being some reality behind the phenomenon being described.
Yes there are good and bad parents..ADHD has no impact on that, and it has no impact on ADHD.
So who diagnosed him with ADHD?
It doesn't sound like you have any experience at all with a child who truly lives with ADHD..
That's not really how diagnosis works for developmental disorders. I don't think you realise how hard it is to get diagnosed.
A lot of people are remembering the early 90s where we didn't know a lot about developmental disorders and GPs were misdiagnosing dietary induced ADHD left, right and centre...we've certainly moved on from that.
You really have to fight hard these days to get a formal diagnosis and it comes from a specialist..not a GP!
The reason people get defensive? Well it might have something to do with the fact that you are suggesting that the problems that a child and the parent are experiencing do not matter, because they aren't real...
I'm not a parent, but I am someone who has a big interest in developmental psychology, and someone who has worked with these kids, and worked with adults with these conditions.
These people have had actual formal diagnoses from world-renowned specialists. It's not something you take lightly, because it can often take years and years before you get a diagnosis.
In the mean time the parent is left to struggle with trying to meet the needs of the child, which is made difficult by the condition.
I don't know how you break it down to reply to each point like you did so I'll keep it brief.
The child I'm talking about has been diagnosed by a doctor as "ADHD". NOT as you seem to think by his mother. And as I said, nobody else but his mother seems to have an issue with his behaviour.
I've never once said these problems do not matter. So you're wrong for saying that.
And just because someone is world-renown doesn't make them some super human who never makes mistakes. He's a human, humans make mistakes.
Not once have I said problems with kids don't exist. I'm sure they do as with any other. I'm just not convinced it's "ADHD".
My point was about people who see something from the outside, and feel qualified to dismiss the issue as bad parenting, even if they accept that other instances of ADHD may be real.
There are instances of misdiagoses of most conditions, physical and mental, and I'm sure that includes ADHD. However, only a doctor is qualified to make a decision as to which people have been misdiagnosed.
I just think that it would help the stigma that surrounds mental health (not just ADHD) if people were not so judgmental, and instead, accepted their lack of qualification on the subject, and recognise that things are not always what they seem.
True, but a lot of experts are of the same opinion as well. I don't know one person at work who believes it is as prominent as it's made out and that doesn't believe is majorly overdiagnosed.
I don't know how you break it down to reply to each point like you did so I'll keep it brief.
The child I'm talking about has been diagnosed by a doctor as "ADHD". NOT as you seem to think by his mother. And as I said, nobody else but his mother seems to have an issue with his behaviour.
I've never once said these problems do not matter. So you're wrong for saying that.
And just because someone is world-renown doesn't make them some super human who never makes mistakes. He's a human, humans make mistakes.
Not once have I said problems with kids don't exist. I'm sure they do as with any other. I'm just not convinced it's "ADHD".
I just wanted to address the BIB, I'm not sure if it's the same in ADHD but I know that in Autism there is an ability to "mask" symptoms in situations where they feel less secure. Unfortunately, the process of "masking" is extremely stressful and, because they are bottling it all up, usually leads to much more extreme behaviour once they're back where they feel secure.
My son was diagnosed with ASD (unspecified) at the age of 2, at 4yrs he presented with extremely challenging behaviour both at home and at school (now much lessened at age 8 due to putting appropriate strategies in place at home and having a placement in a brilliant SEN school, though there are still the unavoidable hiccups). In all that time his real dad (separated since my son was 3mths) has only ever seen 2 full meltdowns and both of those were when I was present too.
I just wanted to address the BIB, I'm not sure if it's the same in ADHD but I know that in Autism there is an ability to "mask" symptoms in situations where they feel less secure. Unfortunately, the process of "masking" is extremely stressful and, because they are bottling it all up, usually leads to much more extreme behaviour once they're back where they feel secure.
My son was diagnosed with ASD (unspecified) at the age of 2, at 4yrs he presented with extremely challenging behaviour both at home and at school (now much lessened at age 8 due to putting appropriate strategies in place at home and having a placement in a brilliant SEN school, though there are still the unavoidable hiccups). In all that time his real dad (separated since my son was 3mths) has only ever seen 2 full meltdowns and both of those were when I was present too.
no expert but it would depend on what type of adhd - there is the impulsive type, the attention deficit type and the combined. if combined or impulsive it would be harder to cover up traits, i would say. my sons is combined and also he has aspergers so I have had the totally public meltdowns happen
although he obviously feels more secure at home and his self soothing 'ticks' come out in full force (he cicrles his neck repeatedly and is constantly stroking material and talking)
no expert but it would depend on what type of adhd - there is the impulsive type, the attention deficit type and the combined. if combined or impulsive it would be harder to cover up traits, i would say. my sons is combined and also he has aspergers so I have had the totally public meltdowns happen
although he obviously feels more secure at home and his self soothing 'ticks' come out in full force (he cicrles his neck repeatedly and is constantly stroking material and talking)
Oh, don't get me wrong, we do get the very public meltdowns ( my son's full diagnosis now is mid-functioning autism with co-morbid sensory integration disorder and hypermobility, the SID make loud and busy areas very stressful and somewhat painful for him so shopping is almost guaranteed to result in meltdown, so you have my complete empathy )
However, all his public meltdowns have been with people he feels secure with (in terms of them being understanding of what he's going through and will be able and willing to help him). His dad takes him shopping and gets nothing but a few self-calming stims (noises, flapping, spinning, etc) but I've noticed that when he comes back to me after he's very highly strung, quick to meltdown over things I know he can usually manage and it takes him several days to recover.
It's not that his dad isn't supportive, it just took him longer to come to terms with and understand my sons diagnosis and that has had an impact on my sons faith in him It is improving now, I'm just nervous about what will happen when my son does feel comfortable around there and does let rip, because if it's not handled correctly it could undo all the progress and damage his relationship with his dad forever.
Sorry, I've gone off on a tangent again:o You sound like you're doing a fabulous job with your son, have you got him down on your county council's register of disabled children? I hate the way that sounds :rolleyes:, but I thought there was no real support in my area until my son was put on it and now I get regular info on so many sen specific groups, activities and support groups for families etc.
The child I'm talking about has been diagnosed by a doctor as "ADHD". NOT as you seem to think by his mother. And as I said, nobody else but his mother seems to have an issue with his behaviour.
I've never once said these problems do not matter. So you're wrong for saying that.
And just because someone is world-renown doesn't make them some super human who never makes mistakes. He's a human, humans make mistakes.
Not once have I said problems with kids don't exist. I'm sure they do as with any other. I'm just not convinced it's "ADHD".
Of course humans make mistakes, but I don't think you realise how rigorous research really is.
Also, it doesn't matter really whether you're convinced that ADHD exists..it's an actual condition with a physiological impact. As I mentioned before, it's well known that a factor in ADHD is an inability to produce DOPA2 and problems with dopamine receptors...
You can't really fake that.
I'll also add, this is an advice thread, how have your posts helped the OP?
wow - I cannot imagine why anyone would want to have their kid diagnosed with ADHD. ..............
According to an article I read a couple of years ago, a diagnosis of ADHD is an automatic gateway to a lot of other benefits. That could be a motive for wanting a child diagnosed as such.
I can't remember where the article was, but the Sunday Times is a likely candidate.
According to an article I read a couple of years ago, a diagnosis of ADHD is an automatic gateway to a lot of other benefits. That could be a motive for wanting a child diagnosed as such.
I can't remember where the article was, but the Sunday Times is a likely candidate.
oh ok, I dont claim benefits so wouldnt know
however it would be a pretty mean parent to want to give their kid a diagnosis they didnt have just for cash!
3:1 boys:girls according to the research I have read. Girls present a little differently so its harder to diagnose in them and they tend to be diagnosed when they are older.
It is suspected that my daughter has hyperactivity but as she is only 5 they have said she is too young for a formal diagnosis. She does however have dyspraxia and sensory processing difficulites both formally diagnosed so seeing as the conditions are frequently comorbid I won't be surprised if we get the diagnosis in future.
It's laughable that people can question the existence of something like ADHD when it's obvious that some of the doubters have no greater awareness of the subject than the average plant pot. They are likely the same intellects that question the blue badge for parking just because they can't see an immediate visible disability.
Of course they will be parents that will use this as an excuse for poor parenting and no doubt others that will receive a misdiagnosis, the system isn't infallible. But to then use such cases to dismiss the actual existence of ADHD entirely is patently ridiculous.
Hang on in there OP. You sound like a wonderful parent
Comments
Also, many kids with ADHD will have crap parents. It's not mutually exclusive.
I think you have wrongly quoted me I only wrote the first half of that post .Just to clear that with you !!
I am also not sure why people would want to label a child but I do know my own neighbour would throw out that her son had " a touch " of ADH .That made me laugh out loud to be honest as the same child had not a " touch " of anything except a complete lack of any form of discipline .He was of course never diagnosed and only the mother would use the term .
I wanted to stay away from this thread as I am not being understood , but I need to clear my name as one poster completly took me up wrong .I am quite sure the syndrome is real and even going back to my childhood in the 60's I remember a child being spoken of as hyperactive /
What I also know is it is on the increase and IMO its in the food chain or in something we are using now that wasnt used before now .ie maybe electronics , food, waste , aerosols etcetc
As I have said before those kids who parents use the label as an excuse do their own child a huge disservice and the children who are genuinely living with the condition an even bigger one by using the services and abusing it too .
I hope that clears my viewpoint up as the last thing I want is to be seen to be disagreeing with you .
I didnt think that of you at all, I seem to remember you are a paeds nurse?
I agree that people who are not diagnosed with it having their parents claim they have it does a huge disservice to those with it.
I have to say according to the SENCO at my sons school he is the only child in the primary that is diagnosed with it, which suprised me as I had thought it more widespread (the books I have read say 2-5 per cent of the school going population)
Whew !!! At least I am being understood now despite the whole qoutes being all over the shop !!
Maybe your son will get more help if he is the only one and doesnt have to share the resources , I do hope so .
Thanks. I knew i had deleted something but wasn't sure what:o
Yes I'm sure that's the case.
My point was about people who see something from the outside, and feel qualified to dismiss the issue as bad parenting, even if they accept that other instances of ADHD may be real.
There are instances of misdiagoses of most conditions, physical and mental, and I'm sure that includes ADHD. However, only a doctor is qualified to make a decision as to which people have been misdiagnosed.
I just think that it would help the stigma that surrounds mental health (not just ADHD) if people were not so judgmental, and instead, accepted their lack of qualification on the subject, and recognise that things are not always what they seem.
http://www.ritalindeath.com/ADHD-Criteria.htm
I don't know how you break it down to reply to each point like you did so I'll keep it brief.
The child I'm talking about has been diagnosed by a doctor as "ADHD". NOT as you seem to think by his mother. And as I said, nobody else but his mother seems to have an issue with his behaviour.
I've never once said these problems do not matter. So you're wrong for saying that.
And just because someone is world-renown doesn't make them some super human who never makes mistakes. He's a human, humans make mistakes.
Not once have I said problems with kids don't exist. I'm sure they do as with any other. I'm just not convinced it's "ADHD".
True, but a lot of experts are of the same opinion as well. I don't know one person at work who believes it is as prominent as it's made out and that doesn't believe is majorly overdiagnosed.
I just wanted to address the BIB, I'm not sure if it's the same in ADHD but I know that in Autism there is an ability to "mask" symptoms in situations where they feel less secure. Unfortunately, the process of "masking" is extremely stressful and, because they are bottling it all up, usually leads to much more extreme behaviour once they're back where they feel secure.
My son was diagnosed with ASD (unspecified) at the age of 2, at 4yrs he presented with extremely challenging behaviour both at home and at school (now much lessened at age 8 due to putting appropriate strategies in place at home and having a placement in a brilliant SEN school, though there are still the unavoidable hiccups). In all that time his real dad (separated since my son was 3mths) has only ever seen 2 full meltdowns and both of those were when I was present too.
no expert but it would depend on what type of adhd - there is the impulsive type, the attention deficit type and the combined. if combined or impulsive it would be harder to cover up traits, i would say. my sons is combined and also he has aspergers so I have had the totally public meltdowns happen
although he obviously feels more secure at home and his self soothing 'ticks' come out in full force (he cicrles his neck repeatedly and is constantly stroking material and talking)
Oh, don't get me wrong, we do get the very public meltdowns ( my son's full diagnosis now is mid-functioning autism with co-morbid sensory integration disorder and hypermobility, the SID make loud and busy areas very stressful and somewhat painful for him so shopping is almost guaranteed to result in meltdown, so you have my complete empathy
However, all his public meltdowns have been with people he feels secure with (in terms of them being understanding of what he's going through and will be able and willing to help him). His dad takes him shopping and gets nothing but a few self-calming stims (noises, flapping, spinning, etc) but I've noticed that when he comes back to me after he's very highly strung, quick to meltdown over things I know he can usually manage and it takes him several days to recover.
It's not that his dad isn't supportive, it just took him longer to come to terms with and understand my sons diagnosis and that has had an impact on my sons faith in him
Sorry, I've gone off on a tangent again:o You sound like you're doing a fabulous job with your son, have you got him down on your county council's register of disabled children? I hate the way that sounds :rolleyes:, but I thought there was no real support in my area until my son was put on it and now I get regular info on so many sen specific groups, activities and support groups for families etc.
To do that, you just put [/quote] at the end of the point you wish to discuss, and then at the start of the next one, you put
According to an article I read a couple of years ago, a diagnosis of ADHD is an automatic gateway to a lot of other benefits. That could be a motive for wanting a child diagnosed as such.
I can't remember where the article was, but the Sunday Times is a likely candidate.
oh ok, I dont claim benefits so wouldnt know
however it would be a pretty mean parent to want to give their kid a diagnosis they didnt have just for cash!
3:1 boys:girls according to the research I have read. Girls present a little differently so its harder to diagnose in them and they tend to be diagnosed when they are older.
It's laughable that people can question the existence of something like ADHD when it's obvious that some of the doubters have no greater awareness of the subject than the average plant pot. They are likely the same intellects that question the blue badge for parking just because they can't see an immediate visible disability.
Of course they will be parents that will use this as an excuse for poor parenting and no doubt others that will receive a misdiagnosis, the system isn't infallible. But to then use such cases to dismiss the actual existence of ADHD entirely is patently ridiculous.
Hang on in there OP. You sound like a wonderful parent