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Atlantis - Series 2 Discussion/Spoilers/Speculation

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    carl.waringcarl.waring Posts: 35,713
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    Why are you posting here if you don't like it then, hm? ;-)
    Because he's one of the "hate posters". It's what they do >:( That and ruin threads :)
    cylon6 wrote: »
    burn off in Spring.
    Once again, as I proved before, the break was planned from the start.

    And yes, it was a 50/50 chance that it would or wouldn't be cancelled. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
    There has been a lot of vitriol on here about why people criticise the show. As far as I know this is not an Atlantis appreciation thread.
    There is a difference between discussing the good and bad of a show and the vitriol (exactly the right word) expressed on here by those people whose only reason to watch the show is so they can then come on here and criticise it.

    That just wrong.
    People are annoyed because this could have been so good. I was expecting them to follow the myths. There is reason the myths have lasted for centuries: they are wonderful stories. Many people love myths, legends and fantasy.
    And since none of them are fact, who's to say who is right and who is wrong?

    The point, again, is that it has been a drama not a documentary.

    I couldn't give a damn about the actual, supposed "myths, legends and fantasy" but it was quite a good drama for a Saturday night.

    [/QUOTE] This show was a mess from the start. I could never understand why the coming from the present was never referred too. I hated the forced comedy and lack of any real story arc.[/quote]
    All of which I agree with. But I kept watching because it was okay for what it was and hating it wasn't going to change anything.
    The consensus has to be that this was a really badly made show: I would even say an embarrassment to the BBC who have a reputation for producing quality programmes.
    And by the BIB I assume you mean the few "hate-watchers" on here. Well I know of 4-5m people who were perfectly happy with the show; flaws and all. And I was one of them.
    VicsMum wrote: »
    Of course you did. We all know you are someone well connected who has been been working in TV forever and has access to important info prior to anyone else ;)

    Can I tell you all about the time I won Miss Universe?

    * really, REALLY, pmsl here*
    Quite :)
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    Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,925
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    There is a difference between discussing the good and bad of a show and the vitriol (exactly the right word) expressed on here by those people whose only reason to watch the show is so they can then come on here and criticise it.

    What an absurd strawman premise. How can you profess to know what anyone's reasons are for posting, let alone their 'only' reason?

    I and others have told you many times why we watch Atlantis (not that actually needed to justify ourselves).
    Your first complaint on here (as far as I remember) was that fans of the show had been badgered and belittled for giving their opinions on the series 1 thread.

    Truly ironic how you and others have seemingly done very little but badger, belittle and bait detractors of the show on this thread, even dismissing their contributions as 'hate posts' when they were just giving their opinions on a programme they'd seen

    Do you actually see the hypocrisy?:confused:
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 590
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    Not surprised it has been cancelled. The first series killed any chance it had.
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    Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,925
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    And yes, it was a 50/50 chance that it would or wouldn't be cancelled. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

    Interesting approach to probability and statistics there.... quite akin to saying "I have a 50/50 chance of winning the lottery because I'll either win it or I won't"

    Are the chances of them cancelling Coronation Street next week 50/50 too?:D
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    SoundboxSoundbox Posts: 6,247
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    I don't often feel upset about TV but I do now. This was the ONLY thing on TV I watched all week - and its cancelled.>:(

    Seeing junk like Eastenders continue and 'tallent' shows that have were never any good and are now just coming thick and fast without relent really irritates me. I enjoyed Merlin and I enjoy Atlantis. In fact it is the highlight of my TV week.

    OK, this is my opinion only and therefore DOES NOT COUNT because someone elses is more important and they want it GONE.
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    Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,925
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    Soundbox wrote: »
    I don't often feel upset about TV but I do now. This was the ONLY thing on TV I watched all week - and its cancelled.>:(

    Seeing junk like Eastenders continue and 'tallent' shows that have were never any good and are now just coming thick and fast without relent really irritates me. I enjoyed Merlin and I enjoy Atlantis. In fact it is the highlight of my TV week.

    OK, this is my opinion only and therefore DOES NOT COUNT because someone elses is more important and they want it GONE.

    I guess the disappointing numbers of viewers counted in the end, and perhaps the BBC felt they could get better ratings with something else in this popular and coveted time slot.

    We shan't agree but I feel the leads were miscast, and this coupled with the drab writing did for the series in the end.
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    Sweaty Job RotSweaty Job Rot Posts: 2,031
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    carl.waring;76626682]Because he's one of the "hate posters". It's what they do >:( That and ruin threads :)


    Once again, as I proved before, the break was planned from the start.

    And yes, it was a 50/50 chance that it would or wouldn't be cancelled. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.


    There is a difference between discussing the good and bad of a show and the vitriol (exactly the right word) expressed on here by those people whose only reason to watch the show is so they can then come on here and criticise it.

    That just wrong.


    And since none of them are fact, who's to say who is right and who is wrong?

    The point, again, is that it has been a drama not a documentary.

    I couldn't give a damn about the actual, supposed "myths, legends and fantasy" but it was quite a good drama for a Saturday night.


    Again so what if people hated Atlantis, this is not an appreciation thread.

    If it was any good then the BBC would have re commissioned it, weak scripts, crap main lead and no explanation or decent attempt at a backstory, oh sure they made a big deal of it being darker this season but I thought the scripts would be darker in tone not the set lighting.

    Here is another bit of news that has so far not been mentioned in any press release, three members of the cast had already decided they were not returning even if it were to get a third season, considering at least one of them was pivotal to any ongoing storyline ( no don't worry none of the are the terminally wooden Jack Donelley or Aiysha Hart) that would have knackered a third season anyway.

    Even if I was enjoying it the glaring holes in continuity and story would have eventually spoiled it, I know good writin, bad writing and writing by numbers, this was bad writing by numbers, at what stage did Capps & co plan to address the plot holes? Sorry but the BBC did the right thing as its not for them to continue to fund rubbish concepts written by writers who should know their best work is behind them.

    Far better productions have been axed by the BBC, 'The Fades' , 'Lillies' & 'Being Human' to name three and for the record no I was not a fan of any of them but the production values and scripts were superb. The BBC finally realised they couldn't polish this turd.
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    Sweaty Job RotSweaty Job Rot Posts: 2,031
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    Soundbox wrote: »
    I don't often feel upset about TV but I do now. This was the ONLY thing on TV I watched all week - and its cancelled.>:(

    Seeing junk like Eastenders continue and 'tallent' shows that have were never any good and are now just coming thick and fast without relent really irritates me. I enjoyed Merlin and I enjoy Atlantis. In fact it is the highlight of my TV week.

    OK, this is my opinion only and therefore DOES NOT COUNT because someone elses is more important and they want it GONE.

    I'm sorry that you are upset at its cancellation, of course your opinion matters just as much as mine or anyone else's here but at the end of the day it did have a fair run on air, I'm the first to say im guilty of criticism but it boils down to the fact the show is gone because of the writers and producers, you as many others made a commitment to the show and they let you down, they screwed up and now viewers are left disappointed, and if you personally feel like sounding off about then it's your perrogative.

    It was a brilliant concept for a fantasy family drama and in more capable hands it could have been a success, it's fair to make comment that it will be sometime before Capps & co are allowed to pitch another high profile drama to the BBC.
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    cylon6cylon6 Posts: 25,486
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    If Atlantis had a few more hate watchers the ratings might have gone up. 4m isn't good enough to keep an expensive drama in the heart of primetime on the air. The ratings weren't good enough because the acting from the young lead and scripts weren't good enough.

    I wanted to like this show but it didn't work. And it hasn't improved enough to be compelling or must see.
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    cylon6cylon6 Posts: 25,486
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    I'm sorry that you are upset at its cancellation, of course your opinion matters just as much as mine or anyone else's here but at the end of the day it did have a fair run on air, I'm the first to say im guilty of criticism but it boils down to the fact the show is gone because of the writers and producers, you as many others made a commitment to the show and they let you down, they screwed up and now viewers are left disappointed, and if you personally feel like sounding off about then it's your perrogative.

    It was a brilliant concept for a fantasy family drama and in more capable hands it could have been a success, it's fair to make comment that it will be sometime before Capps & co are allowed to pitch another high profile drama to the BBC.

    I think Capps and Murphy got Merlin right as they had some pointers from Russell T Davies and Julie Gardner. Capps & Murphy gave us Atlantis and Demons. How did they get one right and the others so very wrong?
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    cylon6cylon6 Posts: 25,486
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    Radio Times is covering the cancellation. Looks like several media outlets got the same press release.

    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-24/bbc-sinks-atlantis-after-two-series
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    HelboreHelbore Posts: 16,069
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    Not really surprised about this. Despite the improvements over series 1, the writing was pretty much on the wall. The leads were still bland and lacking in charisma. The ratings continued to drop. The series was shelved half way through its run so the BBC could put on better content.

    Oh, I know people will say that the split was planned, but that doesn't mean it was for the show's benefit. When Doctor Who was split it was because of production problems. The BBC wouldn't have allowed it if they could have avoided it. As for Atlantis, they clearly moved it of air so they could clear the Christmas schedule, then they kept it clear for The Voice. Its obvious they didn't consider it a flagship show. It was shunted around from the offset, so that it didn't get in the way of better broadcasts.

    That doesn't suggest confidence, but they obviously had some hope it might be able to improve and gain a good following. Alas, the ratings said otherwise and despite the improvements it was clearly on the sink. I quite enjoyed the show as a bit of silly Saturday fun, but it wasn't a stretch to see this coming. I'm a little surprised the announcement came before the show was concluded, but I'm not surprised the announcement came.
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    Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,925
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    cylon6 wrote: »
    Radio Times is covering the cancellation. Looks like several media outlets got the same press release.

    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-01-24/bbc-sinks-atlantis-after-two-series

    Even RT still making excuses for it:

    <<Despite being up against ITV's ratings behemoth X Factor, the first series was the BBC's most successful Saturday night drama launch in seven years.>>

    Well yeah, the launch was obviously going to be a roaring success off the back of Merlin and the PR campaign.
    And no, it really wasn't XFactor's fault that Atlantis was, on the whole, pretty appalling.
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    VicsMumVicsMum Posts: 5,666
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    claire2281 wrote: »

    Oh don't be daft! There's been a few people who work in the TV industry who post here. There are posters who write reviews and therefore see episodes before they air. Do you assume that everyone who says they have insider knowledge is making it up or is it just if they have knowledge you don't like?

    As it happens, via a friend who is involved in the industry I heard that rumours of Atlantis's demise were going round several weeks ago i.e. the cast and crew already knew but the official announcement hadn't been made.

    Obviously, there are TV people who come to these forums, since the runners to the highest ones. Also bloggers and journalists too, I happen to know a couple myself.

    However, is the manner that the person concerned expressed themselves and the content of their posts with the whole "I work in TV, I know better than you", using expletives and being insulting and offensive (or at least trying to) to other FMs that made me believe completely the opposite of what he/she was saying. To go over TWENTY pages saying "I hate this, this is cr*p!!!" with so much anger rings all the alarm bells to me but for the wrong reasons. Obviously, everyone is entitled to believe whatever they like, some believe they work in TV, some believe they can sing or act, some believe they are the Queen of England or the second coming of Jesus. :p

    Thanks for calling me daft by the way, much love to you too sweetie! :D

    Some people went to my ignore list, something which I had never done before in all these years at DS. Too much hate, too much negativity, it is really, really bad. Feel free to insult and swear all you like, I won't be seeing anyway. ;-)

    Peace out!
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    VicsMumVicsMum Posts: 5,666
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    Soundbox wrote: »
    I don't often feel upset about TV but I do now. This was the ONLY thing on TV I watched all week - and its cancelled.>:(

    Seeing junk like Eastenders continue and 'tallent' shows that have were never any good and are now just coming thick and fast without relent really irritates me. I enjoyed Merlin and I enjoy Atlantis. In fact it is the highlight of my TV week.

    OK, this is my opinion only and therefore DOES NOT COUNT because someone elses is more important and they want it GONE.

    I know the feeling. Atlantis was my Saturday night relaxing time, sitting with a glass of wine while the husband took care of bedtime. It really annoyed me because Saturday nights are usually so devoid of good programmes to watch. Shame.
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    cyrilandshirleycyrilandshirley Posts: 48,569
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    I watched a bit of Atlantis this series, and I don't know what audience it was aiming at. It had swashbuckling teatime family entertaininment written all over it, and probably belonged at 7.00, 7.30pm. But that slot's taken by Strictly and The Voice, so instead of holding off til Spring and giving it a full run through, they push it later and try to go "dark". Well unless you're going to do a Ben Hur or Spartacus and deal with properly adult themes, I'm not sure how that's ever going to work for a bit of sword and sandals fantasy. The show was like a guy with his feet in two different boats that ended up in the water.

    Most of all, it just wasn't all that entertaining. The jokes needed to be funnier. The characters needed to be more multi-layered and engaging. And it needed a stronger storyline to propel us past the cardboard love story. So Jason was there to "protect" Atlantis. Who from? Why? What was he even doing there in the first place? After about 4 episodes, I was none the wiser.

    It had some good bits. Pasiphae and Medea were great, so it was a shame we didn't see them for about the first 3 epis. But overall, it came across as a pitch cobbled together quickly by committee when the production company realised they needed something to fill the Merlin gap.
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    CallousCallous Posts: 11,957
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    A shame...but I have to say I always felt the lead actor lacked charisma.

    I'm more concerned the BBC seem to be dumping their cult/genre shows. In The Flesh being canned was a bigger kick in the teeth due to its high quality....but with Being Human gone, In The Flesh and Atlantis booted out..it's starting to look like slim pickings for British made cult/fantasy/horror shows. Hopefully something (in a similar genre) will replace them.

    I'd have thought Atlantis bought back in a far bit of cash from overseas compared to other BBC shows..but obviously not enough.
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    Welsh-ladWelsh-lad Posts: 51,925
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    Callous wrote: »
    A shame...but I have to say I always felt the lead actor lacked charisma.

    I'm more concerned the BBC seem to be dumping their cult/genre shows. In The Flesh being canned was a bigger kick in the teeth due to its high quality....but with Being Human gone, In The Flesh and Atlantis booted out..it's starting to look like slim pickings for British made cult/fantasy/horror shows. Hopefully something (in a similar genre) will replace them.

    I'd have thought Atlantis bought back in a far bit of cash from overseas compared to other BBC shows..but obviously not enough.

    There is a gap now you're right. For me the discontinuation of In the Flesh was a travesty as it was so well written, beautifully and subtley acted.
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    EmmersonneEmmersonne Posts: 4,532
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    Callous wrote: »
    A shame...but I have to say I always felt the lead actor lacked charisma.

    I'm more concerned the BBC seem to be dumping their cult/genre shows. In The Flesh being canned was a bigger kick in the teeth due to its high quality....but with Being Human gone, In The Flesh and Atlantis booted out..it's starting to look like slim pickings for British made cult/fantasy/horror shows. Hopefully something (in a similar genre) will replace them.

    I'd have thought Atlantis bought back in a far bit of cash from overseas compared to other BBC shows..but obviously not enough.

    It's odd, isn't it? the British fantasy genre always used to be so strong and now the US (and Canada, I'm never sure where to put Supernatural) has enough strong Sci fi/Fantasy shows to fill a 20 show shortlist at their TV awards and outside Dr Who we don't seem to have much at all.

    I would LOVE to see the BBC adapt Rivers of London to fill the Urban Fantasy void. Plus it would bolster diversity on screen, which is an issue that has been raised a lot recently.
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    LMLM Posts: 63,510
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    Apart from dr who and Merlin, i think UK have always got it bad with sci-fi/fantasy shows

    If you did a survey out in the street and ask people to name a show of those genres from the Uk, i am almost certain 100 per cent will say Dr Who or Merlin. More than likely say Dr Who.

    If you were to ask to name a US science-fiction/fantasy shows, they would name loads.

    We seem to be known more for our sitcoms or mystery crime shows.
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    HelboreHelbore Posts: 16,069
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    The BBC often seem to go through waves of doing genre shows. The 70s and early 80s were pretty good for sci-fi. Then it all died down and the only genre shows you saw on BBC were Star Trek: TNG and Quantum Leap. The 90s seemed good for US sci-fi and fantasy, whilst the BBC output was minimal at best. Then the US content dropped away in the 00s and BBC picked back up with Doctor Who, followed by Torchwood, Merlin, etc.
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    RFSRFS Posts: 7,627
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    And even then... Doctor Who post Peter Davison was pretty naff until the reboot (I don't even count the film...) ... I guess this is a case of nice try but back to the drawing board
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    claire2281claire2281 Posts: 17,283
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    Callous wrote: »
    I'd have thought Atlantis bought back in a far bit of cash from overseas compared to other BBC shows..but obviously not enough.

    The BBC don't own any of the rights to Atlantis and therefore make no money from it.
    VicsMum wrote: »
    However, is the manner that the person concerned expressed themselves and the content of their posts with the whole "I work in TV, I know better than you", using expletives and being insulting and offensive (or at least trying to) to other FMs that made me believe completely the opposite of what he/she was saying

    Just because someone can be rude doesn't mean they're not telling the truth. The writing has been on the wall for Atlantis for a long time and the BBC regretted the recommission.
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    margarite6666margarite6666 Posts: 2,969
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    claire2281 wrote: »
    The BBC don't own any of the rights to Atlantis and therefore make no money from it.



    Just because someone can be rude doesn't mean they're not telling the truth. The writing has been on the wall for Atlantis for a long time and the BBC regretted the recommission.


    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jul/27/bbc-worldwide-annual-report-results

    Just looked at at article on the Guardian website about bbc worldwide. That is where the money is. Orphan Black seems to be a world wide hit now. BBC worldwide Australia and New Zealand are doing Jimmy McGoverns Banished about the prison colonies in the new world. I am still mystified about how much of our money is invested in these things and it seems the Guardian is too!
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    EmmersonneEmmersonne Posts: 4,532
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    Apart from dr who and Merlin, i think UK have always got it bad with sci-fi/fantasy shows

    If you did a survey out in the street and ask people to name a show of those genres from the Uk, i am almost certain 100 per cent will say Dr Who or Merlin. More than likely say Dr Who.

    If you were to ask to name a US science-fiction/fantasy shows, they would name loads.

    We seem to be known more for our sitcoms or mystery crime shows.

    Actually, you're right. When I do sit down and name them, there aren't as many as I thought.

    A shame really. Over in the world of books there has been a definite slant toward US material too, not just GRRM but lots of other well respected authors.

    The UK has Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman to hold its end up and had a massive boost from Harry Potter but the charts are dominated by non British authors.

    Another reason I'd love to see the PC Grant books adapted - a brilliant author (former Doctor Who writer and a real UK-centric series.
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