Well, we don't tolerate any kind of anti-gay discrimination. I'm not sure what can be done about people's private beliefs, however unpalatable they may be.
Well forgive me, I just find it inexplicable that you would say this about ukip members, but express only a meek acceptance of homophobia from almost the the entire UK Islamic community.
Well forgive me, I just find it inexplicable that you would say this about ukip members, but express only a meek acceptance of homophobia from almost the the entire UK Islamic community.
I truly do.
It's classic liberal whataboutism. Whip up some outrage when a non-religious UKIP member goes off on one about "darkies" and what not, but when it comes to religion it doesn't evoke quite the same response for some reason. Even when vaguely acknowledging it as a problem, they say "yeah, but it's them guys over there too".
Being a gay Muslim within their own community is a huge challenge in any country, including this one, yet this doesn't generate the same furore for some reason, whereas any normal thinking person can see the hypocrisy that is exuding from every pore when this stance is taken.
Imagine if it were a Muslim UKIP member making homophobic comments. It would send some here into a quivering wreck, ending up in a foetal position on the kitchen floor.
Well forgive me, I just find it inexplicable that you would say this about ukip members, but express only a meek acceptance of homophobia from almost the the entire UK Islamic community.
I truly do.
Well, there's a big difference between comments made by identifiable people standing for political office, and the results of an anonymous opinion poll amongst followers of a religion. But I am happy to condemn homophobia from wherever it emanates.
Well, there's a big difference between comments made by identifiable people standing for political office, and the results of an anonymous opinion poll amongst followers of a religion. But I am happy to condemn homophobia from wherever it emanates.
Any chance of getting a thread started about Muslim homophobia? Just for balance like.
It's classic liberal whataboutism. Whip up some outrage when a non-religious UKIP member goes off on one about "darkies" and what not, but when it comes to religion it doesn't evoke quite the same response for some reason. Even when vaguely acknowledging it as a problem, they say "yeah, but it's them guys over there too".
Being a gay Muslim within their own community is a huge challenge in any country, including this one, yet this doesn't generate the same furore for some reason, whereas any normal thinking person can see the hypocrisy that is exuding from every pore when this stance is taken.
Imagine if it were a Muslim UKIP member making homophobic comments. It would send some here into a quivering wreck, ending up in a foetal position on the kitchen floor.
If you're suggesting that such comments wouldn't be equally condemned, then I think you are wrong. I certainly wouldn't seek to excuse them in any way.
We should all be on the same side here against homophobia, not creating divisions beween us for no good reason.
Any chance of getting a thread started about Muslim homophobia? Just for balance like.
Well if anyone did start one, there would be instant deflection tactics along the lines of "Christians and ukip are homophobic too", as though instances of homophobia elsewhere somehow downgrades or lessens the homophobia amongst Muslims.
If you're suggesting that such comments wouldn't be equally condemned, then I think you are wrong. I certainly wouldn't seek to excuse them in any way.
We should all be on the same side here against homophobia, not creating divisions beween us for no good reason.
If we are all on the same side, then as I said, start a thread about endemic homophobia within religion that needs to be eradicated and give it all the same passion and vigour you are showing against some nobody UKIP candidate. I'm sure I speak for most here when I say we will all be shoulder to shoulder with you.
Let us know once you have created the thread and I'll be the first to give you support and solidarity.
Well if anyone did start one, there would be instant deflection tactics along the lines of "Christians and ukip are homophobic too", as though instances of homophobia elsewhere somehow downgrades or lessens the homophobia amongst Muslims.
It's already happened in this very thread and plenty more before it, both on this forum and others.
If we are all on the same side, then as I said, start a thread about endemic homophobia within religion that needs to be eradicated and give it all the same passion and vigour you are showing against some nobody UKIP candidate. I'm sure I speak for most here when I say we will all be shoulder to shoulder with you.
Let us know once you have created the thread and I'll be the first to give you support and solidarity.
It's already happened in this very thread and plenty more before it, both on this forum and others.
If we are all on the same side, then as I said, start a thread about endemic homophobia within religion that needs to be eradicated and give it all the same passion and vigour you are showing against some nobody UKIP candidate. I'm sure I speak for most here when I say we will all be shoulder to shoulder with you.
Let us know once you have created the thread and I'll be the first to give you support and solidarity.
I don't really feel the need to prove myself here by starting such a thread, but I'll willingly contribute should anyone else decide to start one.
Ironically this is the message you should be giving to the Muslim enclaves in our cities and in particular to those who would like the rest of us to follow suit.
I already made my position clear when I said "Islam is not the only misogynist and homophobic religion". That is obviously a "yes".
its a begrudging yes that took a few attempts on my part to get you to answer. Why couldn't you bring yourself to say yes or no to my original question " is Islam a misogynistic and homophobic religion"
Are you afraid of something or is it against your political dogma to admit the obvious .
its a begrudging yes that took a few attempts on my part to get you to answer. Why couldn't you bring yourself to say yes or no to my original question " is Islam a misogynistic and homophobic religion"
Are you afraid of something or is it against your political dogma to admit the obvious .
No more in-fighting or accusations please - it's supposed to be the season of goodwill!
Well forgive me, I just find it inexplicable that you would say this about ukip members, but express only a meek acceptance of homophobia from almost the the entire UK Islamic community.
I truly do.
I was thinking the same thing before I read your comment.
It's just amazing how people can be so laid back or take such a casual attitude towards a religion who behead people for not converting to islam or their attitude towards gays but when Farage makes an innocent comment about breast feeding or whatever there's uproar. I personally think we're all as sickened as each other by the way they behave but some daren't speak out because, as Denis Macshane said people don't want to rock the multicultural boat. One day these idiots, (actually worse than that, frightened idiots) will wake up and realise that as much as it might sound all lovely and modern, some cultures simply can't mix together because they're beliefs are so opposite.
I was thinking the same thing before I read your comment.
It's just amazing how people can be so laid back or take such a casual attitude towards a religion who behead people for not converting to islam or their attitude towards gays but when Farage makes an innocent comment about breast feeding or whatever there's uproar. I personally think we're all as sickened as each other by the way they behave but some daren't speak out because, as Denis Macshane said people don't want to rock the multicultural boat. One day these idiots, (actually worse than that, frightened idiots) will wake up and realise that as much as it might sound all lovely and modern, some cultures simply can't mix together because they're beliefs are so opposite.
Mostly they can mix, or at least co-exist peacefully. It's the extremists that are the problem. And no one takes a casual attitude towards extremists.
Mostly they can mix, or at least co-exist peacefully. It's the extremists that are the problem. And no one takes a casual attitude towards extremists.
We know it's the extremists who are at fault but the trouble is that it only seems to be islam that creates more terrorists or extremists than any other religion. Why are they never condemned with the same outrage (if that's the right word) than when a member of UKIP says something very slightly un pc?
We know it's the extremists who are at fault but the trouble is that it only seems to be islam that creates more terrorists or extremists than any other religion. Why are they never condemned with the same outrage (if that's the right word) than when a member of UKIP says something very slightly un pc?
They are. There is always outrage at terrorist attacks.
We know it's the extremists who are at fault but the trouble is that it only seems to be islam that creates more terrorists or extremists than any other religion.
Seems as in apperance is right.
I mean how much media coverage has there been over the years of the Lords Resistance Army in Uganda, Christian fundamentalists who wear rosary beads and quote from the Bible before engaging in massacres, mutilation, torture, rape, slavery, abduction (including in one instance the abduction of over one hundred school girls), who are guilty of upteem crimes against humanity. Incomparison to the media coverage of muslim terrorist groups who have committed similar atrocities. Or for terrorist groups active in the West how about the Army of God Christians and similar Christian groups in the USA guilty of bombings and murders in the name of Christ and Gods law. And for European terrorism while there was quite a bit of publicity about the massacre of children and bombings committed by Anders Behring Breivik how much emphasis was there on the fact he claimed to be a Christian Crusader defending Norway's traditional Christian values. Hell even Anglican clergy were complicit in genocide in Rwanda and committed mass murders of civilians how much media coverage was there of that considering England's state religion is Anglican.
Seems as in apperance is right.
I mean how much media coverage has there been over the years of the Lords Resistance Army in Uganda, Christian fundamentalists who wear rosary beads and quote from the Bible before engaging in massacres, mutilation, torture, rape, slavery, abduction (including in one instance the abduction of over one hundred school girls), who are guilty of upteem crimes against humanity. Incomparison to the media coverage of muslim terrorist groups who have committed similar atrocities. Or for terrorist groups active in the West how about the Army of God Christians and similar Christian groups in the USA guilty of bombings and murders in the name of Christ and Gods law. And for European terrorism while there was quite a bit of publicity about the massacre of children and bombings committed by Anders Behring Breivik how much emphasis was there on the fact he claimed to be a Christian Crusader defending Norway's traditional Christian values. Hell even Anglican clergy were complicit in genocide in Rwanda and committed mass murders of civilians.
All of this is of course true and I feel a warm glow as a result of being a non-terrorist atheist.
I was thinking the same thing before I read your comment.
It's just amazing how people can be so laid back or take such a casual attitude towards a religion who behead people for not converting to islam or their attitude towards gays but when Farage makes an innocent comment about breast feeding or whatever there's uproar. I personally think we're all as sickened as each other by the way they behave but some daren't speak out because, as Denis Macshane said people don't want to rock the multicultural boat. One day these idiots, (actually worse than that, frightened idiots) will wake up and realise that as much as it might sound all lovely and modern, some cultures simply can't mix together because they're beliefs are so opposite.
Indeed - and even when challenged with hard facts, the Islamic terrorism will only begrudgingly (and eventually) be condemned. In the meantime we go the the usual panoply of "Christians (or others) do it too" then "is he an islamic terrorist, or just a lone nutter".
Literally anything but confront the truth. You couldn't make it up.
Indeed - and even when challenged with hard facts, the Islamic terrorism will only begrudgingly (and eventually) be condemned. In the meantime we go the the usual panoply of "Christians (or others) do it too" then "is he an islamic terrorist, or just a lone nutter".
Literally anything but confront the truth. You couldn't make it up.
I really think you're exaggerating here. Most people have no trouble at all condemning Islamist terrorism.
Comments
Well forgive me, I just find it inexplicable that you would say this about ukip members, but express only a meek acceptance of homophobia from almost the the entire UK Islamic community.
I truly do.
It's classic liberal whataboutism. Whip up some outrage when a non-religious UKIP member goes off on one about "darkies" and what not, but when it comes to religion it doesn't evoke quite the same response for some reason. Even when vaguely acknowledging it as a problem, they say "yeah, but it's them guys over there too".
Being a gay Muslim within their own community is a huge challenge in any country, including this one, yet this doesn't generate the same furore for some reason, whereas any normal thinking person can see the hypocrisy that is exuding from every pore when this stance is taken.
Imagine if it were a Muslim UKIP member making homophobic comments. It would send some here into a quivering wreck, ending up in a foetal position on the kitchen floor.
Well, there's a big difference between comments made by identifiable people standing for political office, and the results of an anonymous opinion poll amongst followers of a religion. But I am happy to condemn homophobia from wherever it emanates.
Any chance of getting a thread started about Muslim homophobia? Just for balance like.
We should all be on the same side here against homophobia, not creating divisions beween us for no good reason.
Well if anyone did start one, there would be instant deflection tactics along the lines of "Christians and ukip are homophobic too", as though instances of homophobia elsewhere somehow downgrades or lessens the homophobia amongst Muslims.
If we are all on the same side, then as I said, start a thread about endemic homophobia within religion that needs to be eradicated and give it all the same passion and vigour you are showing against some nobody UKIP candidate. I'm sure I speak for most here when I say we will all be shoulder to shoulder with you.
Let us know once you have created the thread and I'll be the first to give you support and solidarity.
It's already happened in this very thread and plenty more before it, both on this forum and others.
Seconded by me.
I don't really feel the need to prove myself here by starting such a thread, but I'll willingly contribute should anyone else decide to start one.
The message is aimed at everyone, surely?
its a begrudging yes that took a few attempts on my part to get you to answer. Why couldn't you bring yourself to say yes or no to my original question " is Islam a misogynistic and homophobic religion"
Are you afraid of something or is it against your political dogma to admit the obvious .
No more in-fighting or accusations please - it's supposed to be the season of goodwill!
It's just amazing how people can be so laid back or take such a casual attitude towards a religion who behead people for not converting to islam or their attitude towards gays but when Farage makes an innocent comment about breast feeding or whatever there's uproar. I personally think we're all as sickened as each other by the way they behave but some daren't speak out because, as Denis Macshane said people don't want to rock the multicultural boat. One day these idiots, (actually worse than that, frightened idiots) will wake up and realise that as much as it might sound all lovely and modern, some cultures simply can't mix together because they're beliefs are so opposite.
Mostly they can mix, or at least co-exist peacefully. It's the extremists that are the problem. And no one takes a casual attitude towards extremists.
They are. There is always outrage at terrorist attacks.
I mean how much media coverage has there been over the years of the Lords Resistance Army in Uganda, Christian fundamentalists who wear rosary beads and quote from the Bible before engaging in massacres, mutilation, torture, rape, slavery, abduction (including in one instance the abduction of over one hundred school girls), who are guilty of upteem crimes against humanity. Incomparison to the media coverage of muslim terrorist groups who have committed similar atrocities. Or for terrorist groups active in the West how about the Army of God Christians and similar Christian groups in the USA guilty of bombings and murders in the name of Christ and Gods law. And for European terrorism while there was quite a bit of publicity about the massacre of children and bombings committed by Anders Behring Breivik how much emphasis was there on the fact he claimed to be a Christian Crusader defending Norway's traditional Christian values. Hell even Anglican clergy were complicit in genocide in Rwanda and committed mass murders of civilians how much media coverage was there of that considering England's state religion is Anglican.
All of this is of course true and I feel a warm glow as a result of being a non-terrorist atheist.
You'd be hard pushed to show that crimes against humanity were due to their atheism.
Indeed - and even when challenged with hard facts, the Islamic terrorism will only begrudgingly (and eventually) be condemned. In the meantime we go the the usual panoply of "Christians (or others) do it too" then "is he an islamic terrorist, or just a lone nutter".
Literally anything but confront the truth. You couldn't make it up.
I really think you're exaggerating here. Most people have no trouble at all condemning Islamist terrorism.
That's true, but some are compelled to condemn Christian/Buddhist/Sikh/Atheist terrorism in the same breath.
As in "yeah, not good.......anyway, back to condemning historic acts of terrorism and homophobia by Christians and others" ;-)
Deflection City, Arizona.