See there is the attitude that lies behind much of this.
'I' find something disgusting/wrong/unpleasant etc so I have the right to ban others doing it.
No; if you find something disgusting just don't do it.
No, any ban would be to protect the comfort and well-being of non-smokers.
I know that smokers can be very selfish when it comes to consideration for others, but the tables have now turned and they don't like it one bit. Tough!
Smokers should be free to smoke their lungs out in the privacy of their own home or in a designated smoking place, where they won't cause discomfort or affect the wellbeing of other people.
No, any ban would be to protect the comfort and well-being of non-smokers.
I know that smokers can be very selfish when it comes to consideration for others, but the tables have now turned and they don't like it one bit. Tough!
Smokers should be free to smoke their lungs out in the privacy of their own home or in a designated smoking place, where they won't cause discomfort or affect the wellbeing of other people.
Yes, because every single one of us smokers is like that. Nice bit of generalising there
I take it you don't have a car, a motorbike or ever use buses/taxis then? As they do far more harm to the atmosphere and the 'comfort and well-being of non-smokers' than cigarette fumes will ever do.
Hmm, well oddly enough I've seen this confusion over "bus stops" before on a different unrelated thread, so I was kind of prepared.
That's why I threw in the distinction between stop and shelter, as the term "bus stop" seems to cover both, and can confuse the debate.
I think 'stop' tends to be the usual term - I wouldn't usually qualify it with 'shelter' as I'd assume that's a given in this context. Not any more, though.
Ta for pointing it out as it could have got worse.
No, any ban would be to protect the comfort and well-being of non-smokers.
I know that smokers can be very selfish when it comes to consideration for others, but the tables have now turned and they don't like it one bit. Tough!
Smokers should be free to smoke their lungs out in the privacy of their own home or in a designated smoking place, where they won't cause discomfort or affect the wellbeing of other people.
No, any ban would be to protect the comfort and well-being of non-smokers.
I know that smokers can be very selfish when it comes to consideration for others, but the tables have now turned and they don't like it one bit. Tough!
Smokers should be free to smoke their lungs out in the privacy of their own home or in a designated smoking place, where they won't cause discomfort or affect the wellbeing of other people.
I can't say my comfort or well-being has ever been affected by someone smoking in a wide open space outdoors. I might have smelled the odd whiff of smoke now and again but depending on where you live there are far worse whiffs to be encountered
No, any ban would be to protect the comfort and well-being of non-smokers.
I know that smokers can be very selfish when it comes to consideration for others, but the tables have now turned and they don't like it one bit. Tough!
Smokers should be free to smoke their lungs out in the privacy of their own home or in a designated smoking place, where they won't cause discomfort or affect the wellbeing of other people.
We are talking about banning smoking in any open place especially parks. Are you seriously suggesting that smoking in open parks threatens your comfort and well being so substantially that the law has to be involved? Your position lacks proportionality and moderation.
I am not a smoker myself by the way just someone suggesting that reason and balance is needed here. Once we accept the principal that anything anyone finds 'disgusting' is reason to ban it we are accepting the banning of almost anything. e.g Eating burgers on the street; loud car music, see I find them disgusting, I don't want a total ban on them however; I can exercise a little tolerance.
Yes, I believe that smoking should be banned from all outdoor public places.
If smokers really can't get through the day without a nicotine fix, they should take it in such a way that their disgusting smoke doesn't bother others and stop dumping their cigarette ends everywhere.
You say that and I agree, even though I was a conventional smoker until fairly recently. However, it's difficult to deal with spent cigarettes in public without dropping them to the ground and as is more often the case, there are no litter bins around, so there is little point in picking the ends up. Besides, even tramps need to smoke. Also, cigarette ends are only a minor part of the bigger problem and that is litter in general, e.g. bottles, cans, plastic bags, chewing gum, confectionery wrappers, left over takeaways dropped onto the ground everywhere in urban areas, which IMO is a far greater problem.
We are talking about banning smoking in any open place especially parks. Are you seriously suggesting that smoking in open parks threatens your comfort and well being so substantially that the law has to be involved? Your position lacks proportionality and moderation.
I am not a smoker myself by the way just someone suggesting that reason and balance is needed here. Once we accept the principal that anything anyone finds 'disgusting' is reason to ban it we are accepting the banning of almost anything. e.g Eating burgers on the street; loud car music, see I find them disgusting, I don't want a total ban on them however; I can exercise a little tolerance.
Some people think it's not my taste and nobody should be able to enjoy it.
You say that and I agree, even though I was a conventional smoker until fairly recently. However, it's difficult to deal with spent cigarettes in public without dropping them to the ground and as is more often the case, there are no litter bins around, so there is little point in picking the ends up. Besides, even tramps need to smoke. Also, cigarette ends are only a minor part of the bigger problem and that is litter in general, e.g. bottles, cans, plastic bags, chewing gum, confectionery wrappers, left over takeaways dropped onto the ground everywhere in urban areas, which IMO is a far greater problem.
It's a daft idea and tourists from heavy-smoking countries aren't going to like it either!
I do agree with remarks about butts though, people should learn not to chuck these everywhere - my local council has loads of 'gum+butts' disposal things on lamp-posts which people are actually using.
As for fast food, have there been studies on the effects of lard vapour and burnt-fat smoke? I doubt these are particularly healthy, even if they do often smell really good when walking through clouds of the stuff outside the fast-food places.
Yes, because every single one of us smokers is like that. Nice bit of generalising there
I take it you don't have a car, a motorbike or ever use buses/taxis then? As they do far more harm to the atmosphere and the 'comfort and well-being of non-smokers' than cigarette fumes will ever do.
Indeed. The only non-smokers who have any right to whinge about smoke, if they must, are cyclists or those who love walking everywhere..
Personally I'd like to ban dogs in parks. I think more people are wary of dogs than the odd person puffing a ****. But I know people love their dogs so I'll put up with the slobbering poop machines.
I think it's a step too far. I'd be in favour of non smoking zones in parks - near playgrounds, picnic benches, park cafe etc.
I wonder how this would be policed? I'm generally against unenforceable laws as it leads to a situation where people start to pick and choose which laws they agree with and decide to comply with. I personally wouldn't comply with this one, particularly if I were in in a big park with no other soul around. I wouldn't dream of lighting up on the same bench as non smokers and I stick my butts in my back pocket until I find a bin.
It's a daft idea and tourists from heavy-smoking countries aren't going to like it either!
I do agree with remarks about butts though, people should learn not to chuck these everywhere - my local council has loads of 'gum+butts' disposal things on lamp-posts which people are actually using.
As for fast food, have there been studies on the effects of lard vapour and burnt-fat smoke? I doubt these are particularly healthy, even if they do often smell really good when walking through clouds of the stuff outside the fast-food places.
If people want to smoke, drink or eat junk food or do anything else to their bodies it's up to them as at the end of the day its their bodies and not governments
The tobacco industry should have been wound down over several years, in order for new industries to replace it, there ore not leaving people unemployed.
The Government goes on about anti smoking measures, but it's hypocritical, as they get a vast revenue from tobacco industries. Until the tobacco industry is ended, they will never win the war on smoking.
We are talking about banning smoking in any open place especially parks. Are you seriously suggesting that smoking in open parks threatens your comfort and well being so substantially that the law has to be involved? Your position lacks proportionality and moderation.
In wide-open parks, smokers just tend to discard their cigarette ends and creating unsightly litter. Might as well try to knock that on the head, too.
I am not a smoker myself by the way just someone suggesting that reason and balance is needed here. Once we accept the principal that anything anyone finds 'disgusting' is reason to ban it we are accepting the banning of almost anything. e.g Eating burgers on the street; loud car music, see I find them disgusting, I don't want a total ban on them however; I can exercise a little tolerance.
That's nice.
Some people are less tolerant of inhaling someone else's cigarette smoke when they choose light up right next to them on a crowded pavement or when they see numerous discarded cigarette ends littering beauty spots.
Some people are less tolerant of inhaling someone else's cigarette smoke when they choose light up right next to them on a crowded pavement or when they see numerous discarded cigarette ends littering beauty spots.
Some people are less tolerant of inhaling someone else's cigarette smoke when they choose light up right next to them on a crowded pavement or when they see numerous discarded cigarette ends littering beauty spots.
The trouble with unreasonable intolerance is that anyone can find themselves the victim of it.
e.g. Lets just take the logic behind your implicit suggestion there. Should there also be total ban on eating out of doors because food wrappings (often still containing rotting food) cause more litter than cig ends.
Some people are less tolerant of inhaling someone else's cigarette smoke when they choose light up right next to them on a crowded pavement or when they see numerous discarded cigarette ends littering beauty spots.
I have a bigger problem with food wrappings, empty bottles, dog crap and disposable nappies - you're likely to see more of that than cig ends.
Comments
I know that smokers can be very selfish when it comes to consideration for others, but the tables have now turned and they don't like it one bit. Tough!
Smokers should be free to smoke their lungs out in the privacy of their own home or in a designated smoking place, where they won't cause discomfort or affect the wellbeing of other people.
Is this a rule?
Hmm, well oddly enough I've seen this confusion over "bus stops" before on a different unrelated thread, so I was kind of prepared.
That's why I threw in the distinction between stop and shelter, as the term "bus stop" seems to cover both, and can confuse the debate.
Yes, because every single one of us smokers is like that. Nice bit of generalising there
I take it you don't have a car, a motorbike or ever use buses/taxis then? As they do far more harm to the atmosphere and the 'comfort and well-being of non-smokers' than cigarette fumes will ever do.
I think 'stop' tends to be the usual term - I wouldn't usually qualify it with 'shelter' as I'd assume that's a given in this context. Not any more, though.
Ta for pointing it out as it could have got worse.
Do you drive a car?
I can't say my comfort or well-being has ever been affected by someone smoking in a wide open space outdoors. I might have smelled the odd whiff of smoke now and again but depending on where you live there are far worse whiffs to be encountered
We are talking about banning smoking in any open place especially parks. Are you seriously suggesting that smoking in open parks threatens your comfort and well being so substantially that the law has to be involved? Your position lacks proportionality and moderation.
I am not a smoker myself by the way just someone suggesting that reason and balance is needed here. Once we accept the principal that anything anyone finds 'disgusting' is reason to ban it we are accepting the banning of almost anything. e.g Eating burgers on the street; loud car music, see I find them disgusting, I don't want a total ban on them however; I can exercise a little tolerance.
You say that and I agree, even though I was a conventional smoker until fairly recently. However, it's difficult to deal with spent cigarettes in public without dropping them to the ground and as is more often the case, there are no litter bins around, so there is little point in picking the ends up. Besides, even tramps need to smoke. Also, cigarette ends are only a minor part of the bigger problem and that is litter in general, e.g. bottles, cans, plastic bags, chewing gum, confectionery wrappers, left over takeaways dropped onto the ground everywhere in urban areas, which IMO is a far greater problem.
Some people think it's not my taste and nobody should be able to enjoy it.
Why do they?
Ask them.
That was supposed to be a bit of a joke btw.
I do agree with remarks about butts though, people should learn not to chuck these everywhere - my local council has loads of 'gum+butts' disposal things on lamp-posts which people are actually using.
As for fast food, have there been studies on the effects of lard vapour and burnt-fat smoke? I doubt these are particularly healthy, even if they do often smell really good when walking through clouds of the stuff outside the fast-food places.
Indeed. The only non-smokers who have any right to whinge about smoke, if they must, are cyclists or those who love walking everywhere..
I think it's a step too far. I'd be in favour of non smoking zones in parks - near playgrounds, picnic benches, park cafe etc.
I wonder how this would be policed? I'm generally against unenforceable laws as it leads to a situation where people start to pick and choose which laws they agree with and decide to comply with. I personally wouldn't comply with this one, particularly if I were in in a big park with no other soul around. I wouldn't dream of lighting up on the same bench as non smokers and I stick my butts in my back pocket until I find a bin.
If people want to smoke, drink or eat junk food or do anything else to their bodies it's up to them as at the end of the day its their bodies and not governments
Oh the hypocrisy!
So no one else gets a say?
Why in a two-sided argument do non-smokers consider just what they want is what should happen and that other's opinions should just be ignored?
I find this attitude disgusting and it's that that should be banned.
The Government goes on about anti smoking measures, but it's hypocritical, as they get a vast revenue from tobacco industries. Until the tobacco industry is ended, they will never win the war on smoking.
Do you drive a car?
Are they going to ban drinking in public places, or ban fattening, unhealthy foods in case a child decides they want to do that too?
It has nothing to do with children's health, it is more Nanny state stuff.
it's all about control and nothing else
I have a bigger problem with food wrappings, empty bottles, dog crap and disposable nappies - you're likely to see more of that than cig ends.