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UK switches on to green power

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    andyknandykn Posts: 66,849
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    Majlis wrote: »
    I wouldn't - as I said I am not convinced it is a worthwhile use of revenue

    How do we all benefit from higher bills? :confused:

    If people use less energy that both reduces demand and increases supply. Both of which act to lower bills.
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    alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    Citation needed..
    Just check the tariffs.Large scale looks already down to 7p per KW/H.

    BTW Farmers seem to get the most for Anaerobic Digestion.
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    andykn wrote: »
    If people use less energy that both reduces demand and increases supply. Both of which act to lower bills.

    Meanwhile, in the real world Green taxes have increased bills.. :(
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    andyknandykn Posts: 66,849
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    Majlis wrote: »
    Meanwhile, in the real world Green taxes have increased bills.. :(

    But saved on excess winter deaths.
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    andykn wrote: »
    But saved on excess winter deaths.

    which is a totally different argument to your claim that increasing Green taxes leads to lower bills..:(
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    andyknandykn Posts: 66,849
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    Majlis wrote: »
    which is a totally different argument to your claim that increasing Green taxes leads to lower bills..:(

    What do you think reducing demand and increasing supply does to bills?
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    alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    That same argument about investment would have meant the levy for the great Victorian water plan would have gone down the sewer.
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    alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    "I wish to make clear at the outset that I am not against renewable energy per se but wish to draw attention to the fact that there is no such thing as a free lunch in the energy world."

    Did he also say 'Apple don't grow on trees'> Cause that is effectively what he is doing.
    :eek:

    And "Providing all of the world’s people with electricity services and improving energy efficiency will have two certain outcomes. More people and more energy consumption."

    So mankind must still be naked, as according to him it is more efficient energy wise.
    :eek:

    He sounds daft as a brush.
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    MajlisMajlis Posts: 31,362
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    andykn wrote: »
    What do you think reducing demand and increasing supply does to bills?

    artificially inflating the price of something never makes it cheaper :(
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    allaortaallaorta Posts: 19,050
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    njp wrote: »
    That's why nobody is suggesting installing solar panels and wind turbines in your cellar.

    Anyhow, whatever happened to your frequent sightings of wind turbines rotating despite there being no wind? I always enjoyed reading your accounts of those.

    I did go this morning, I was there at 7.45 after a 70 mile journey. There was no perceptable wind at ground level and no movement of foliage at the treetops. The lower, individual turbine was rotating at some 40rpm whilst the taller wind farm ones were running at the same speed....with the exception of one which showed reluctance to do more than 2rpm, something I'm unable to explain; perhaps the left-wing blade was taking industrial action. No doubt you will relay this info to the IPCC, I'm sure it will be of great interest to them, sufficient perhaps to have second thoughts about how they arrive at their conclusions.

    Thankfully, Andykins doesn't work for them as I'm sure he would not allow my important scientific observations to play any part in their calculations of future weather events.
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    Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    alanwarwic wrote: »
    Just check the tariffs.Large scale looks already down to 7p per KW/H.

    That's not a citation. What's your source? There have been a few changes but there are a lot of different subsidies depending on when things were installed, size, category etc etc. That lead to some novel effects, like >5MW windmills suddenly becoming <5MW because the subsidies became more attractive. The only efficiency the renewables scumbags know is how to most efficiently transfer our money to themselves.
    BTW Farmers seem to get the most for Anaerobic Digestion.

    Yeh, check Amazon, there's loads of Anaerobics vids on sale.
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    Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    alanwarwic wrote: »
    So mankind must still be naked, as according to him it is more efficient energy wise. :eek:

    True, especially this time of year. How much energy, water and chemicals are used to wash sweaty clothes?
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    alanwarwicalanwarwic Posts: 28,396
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    So what have we thus concluded?
    That we let market forces take their own path, so in time we ensure more deaths and thus even lower capacity need.
    :eek:
    Oh, I'm out on the 7.1p per kw/h low. Its now down to 6.38p or £63.80 per Mw/H.
    Just google feed in tarriff rates and check the Ofgem PDF.
    There is also 4.7p for 'export', whatever that exactly means. Its fast moving so another fall is likely due October!
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    niceguy1966niceguy1966 Posts: 29,560
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    Majlis wrote: »
    by that argument you should increase the subsidy for renewables even more so as to increase production and therefore lower prices.

    Somehow I see a flaw in your plan. :D

    I don't. You are confusing the cost of fossil fuels and the cost of generating electricity. These are two different things.
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    smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    allaorta wrote: »
    I did go this morning, I was there at 7.45 after a 70 mile journey. There was no perceptable wind at ground level and no movement of foliage at the treetops. The lower, individual turbine was rotating at some 40rpm whilst the taller wind farm ones were running at the same speed....with the exception of one which showed reluctance to do more than 2rpm, something I'm unable to explain; perhaps the left-wing blade was taking industrial action. No doubt you will relay this info to the IPCC, I'm sure it will be of great interest to them, sufficient perhaps to have second thoughts about how they arrive at their conclusions.

    Thankfully, Andykins doesn't work for them as I'm sure he would not allow my important scientific observations to play any part in their calculations of future weather events.

    1. Winds are stronger the higher you go ( in general)
    2. Different sized turbines rotate at different rpm, but tip speeds are the same
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    BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    andykn wrote: »
    What do you think reducing demand and increasing supply does to bills?

    and you think massively increasing the population is a good way to reduce demand?
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    allaortaallaorta Posts: 19,050
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    1. Winds are stronger the higher you go ( in general)
    2. Different sized turbines rotate at different rpm, but tip speeds are the same

    I'll await NJP's assessment, he's more aware of the nature of my research.
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    smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    allaorta wrote: »
    I'll await NJP's assessment, he's more aware of the nature of my research.

    OK, but let me know why you think I'm wrong:)
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    andyknandykn Posts: 66,849
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    and you think massively increasing the population is a good way to reduce demand?

    Without enough people to replace the baby boom bulge retiring there won't be enough operators to maintain supply.

    And energy prices tend to be set on a larger scale than just the UK anyway.
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    njpnjp Posts: 27,583
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    [The alleged battery mega-park at Eel Towers is] fine.
    In what sense? Working successfully as part of your money saving operation, and thus completely contradicting your current set of claims about other people's batteries? Appearing as part of a sculptural installation? Languishing unused with the batteries progressively deteriorating because you aren't bothering to keep them charged?

    Please fill me in on developments since we last discussed your ambitious plans to use lots of batteries in your house.
    But are you saying batteries just add additional cost, complexity and conversion losses to an already inefficient and expensive power system now?
    My position - unlike yours - has not changed. Any kind of energy storage system inevitably introduces inefficiences. But that doesn't mean that it can't be used to improve the overall efficiency (and resilience) of a complete system, with proper engineering.

    Not engineering things correctly is what people like you do, as we saw in the earlier thread.
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    BrokenArrowBrokenArrow Posts: 21,665
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    andykn wrote: »
    Without enough people to replace the baby boom bulge retiring there won't be enough operators to maintain supply.

    And energy prices tend to be set on a larger scale than just the UK anyway.

    I can't believe your still spouting that nonsense.

    In 30 years years time we will need 90 million to support the retirees from this generation.

    Do something useful and go and do a maths course of something.
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    njpnjp Posts: 27,583
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    allaorta wrote: »
    I'll await NJP's assessment, he's more aware of the nature of my research.
    Well, the nature of your research is to omit any data which might serve to resolve your confusion. Such as the wind speed at the height of the turbine blades (just as SD said), or even in the same location as the turbine.We've been over this many times.

    I confess I've lost track of whether or not you think they are being driven by motors as part of a conspiracy to fool the public. Though that has certainly been suggested by some on the wilder fringes of lunacy.
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    andyknandykn Posts: 66,849
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    I can't believe your still spouting that nonsense.

    In 30 years years time we will need 90 million to support the retirees from this generation.
    Says who? And how do we support the retirees otherwise?
    Do something useful and go and do a maths course of something.
    'tis you who needs to do the maths, the OBR have already done mine.
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    Jellied EelJellied Eel Posts: 33,091
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    njp wrote: »
    My position - unlike yours - has not changed. Any kind of energy storage system inevitably introduces inefficiences. But that doesn't mean that it can't be used to improve the overall efficiency (and resilience) of a complete system, with proper engineering.

    So I'm confused. On the one hand you're saying installing batteries for backup or storage is a bad thing, On the other you're saying by adding extra inefficiences and costs, you can somehow improve the overall system performance? And I thought you were the physics champion.
    Not engineering things correctly is what people like you do, as we saw in the earlier thread.

    "We" again. King (or Queen) of your own basement now?
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