Admitadly by Velvet Rope the content of her work had become far more sexualised & her signature sound was being phased out but I don't credit this with her commercial decline. By the end of the 90's all the big hitters were experiencing declining sales in some way. I think it's a testament to her success that she continued to put out successful album campaigns right up until 2001.
We all know that one single event that shall go nameless can be credited with Damita Jo's failure to ignite the charts!
And finally, as you start your third paragraph with 'this is not aimed at you in any way' I'm going to ignore it completely.
while the album was no flop, it sold about half of its predecessor, so it clearly was the beginning of her commercial decline. celine's commercial decline didn't start in that era considering the huge success of "falling into you" the year before and the later "lets talk about love", even celine's holiday album sold more than "the velvet rope". madonna's biggest selling studio album that decade came a year later and even whitney's "my love is your love" held its own compared to her earlier studio album that decade.
that's fine, it was more of a general observation on some comments on the previous page and was not aimed at you at all.
She's nearing 50. If she is going to make a comeback, which she has no reason to since her husband is a billionaire, she might want to write from a new perspective that's not "Damn boy, can you hit turn me round and hit it, I like it like it like that, my body needs you, come and get it." It'd just be creepy like a half drunk menopausal spinster at a superclub trying to pick up twenty somethings.
while the album was no flop, it sold about half of its predecessor, so it clearly was the beginning of her commercial decline. celine's commercial decline didn't start in that era considering the huge success of "falling into you" the year before and the later "lets talk about love", even celine's holiday album sold more than "the velvet rope". madonna's biggest selling studio album that decade came a year later and even whitney's "my love is your love" held its own compared to her earlier studio album that decade.
that's fine, it was more of a general observation on some comments on the previous page and was not aimed at you at all.
You can't include Celine in the same catagory, her sheer volume of foreign language albums give her a broader audience!
Madonna had already faltered with Erotica & Bedtime Stories & both of Whitney's 90's albums sold less than half of her two 80's releases! I'm not comparing actual figures from individual artists, I'm talking all relative! My point is Janet is just one artist of many who's sales figures saw natural declines thought the 90's & into the 00's.
You can't include Celine in the same catagory, her sheer volume of foreign language albums give her a broader audience!
Madonna had already faltered with Erotica & Bedtime Stories & both of Whitney's 90's albums sold less than half of her two 80's releases! I'm not comparing actual figures from individual artists, I'm talking all relative! My point is Janet is just one artist of many who's sales figures saw natural declines thought the 90's & into the 00's.
of course celine can be included in that category, her foreign albums may have boosted her at her peak, but they did nothing to prevent her sales declining eventually. however, she was riding high at a period where janet's decline had already began. whitney's third album did sell roughly half compared to her 80s output, but at least she managed to maintain that level with her forth release. meanwhile, when "the velvet rope" sold half of his predecessor, it was the beginning of a classic case of diminishing returns.
i appreciate you was writing relatively, but some artists did buck the trend though and "ray of light" was typical of album that could reverse the trend for an artist under performing commercially.
of course celine can be included in that category, her foreign albums may have boosted her at her peak, but they did nothing to prevent her sales declining eventually. however, she was riding high at a period where janet's decline had already began. whitney's third album did sell roughly half compared to her 80s output, but at least she managed to maintain that level with her forth release. meanwhile, when "the velvet rope" sold half of his predecessor, it was the beginning of a classic case of diminishing returns.
i appreciate you was writing relatively, but some artists did buck the trend though and "ray of light" was typical of album that could reverse the trend for an artist under performing commercially.
Ray of Light did buck the trend but it was a comeback album the same way Emancipation was for Mariah! Both managed to buck the trend in a way few albums manage to!
I still don't include Celine however, she was flavour of the month during the 90's the same way Janet & Madonna were in the 80's!
Janet still has the potential for a decent comeback if handled correctly. But I don't think she has the drive for it anymore, we shall see!
Ray of Light did buck the trend but it was a comeback album the same way Emancipation was for Mariah! Both managed to buck the trend in a way few albums manage to!
I still don't include Celine however, she was flavour of the month during the 90's the same way Janet & Madonna were in the 80's!
Janet still has the potential for a decent comeback if handled correctly. But I don't think she has the drive for it anymore, we shall see!
well cher had a huge return with "believe" and kylie reached a new peak with "fever", so that is four examples just off the top of head and by only using female singers. i do agree that these occurrences are unusual, but it was possible for her reverse the trend like others managed during a similar period.
celine was at the peak of her commercial success in that time, but i was only pointing out a singer who's sales were not declining in the same period. madonna's peak was in the 80's in terms of studio album sales, but i would say janet peaked with "janet". she was successful towards the end of the 80s, but she was at the height of her popularity in the early 90s.
i do agree she could comeback with the right material and promotional campaign, but like you say, time will tell.
well cher had a huge return with "believe" and kylie reached a new peak with "fever", so that is four examples just off the top of head and by only using female singers. i do agree that these occurrences are unusual, but it was possible for her reverse the trend like others managed during a similar period.
celine was at the peak of her commercial success in that time, but i was only pointing out a singer who's sales were not declining in the same period. madonna's peak was in the 80's in terms of studio album sales, but i would say janet peaked with "janet". she was successful towards the end of the 80s, but she was at the height of her popularity in the early 90s.
i do agree she could comeback with the right material and promotional campaign, but like you say, time will tell.
Cher's whole career has been sporadic at best & Kylie is yet another 80's big hitter who saw serious decline in the 90's! I don't understand what you're point is!?
All I am pointing out is that Janet was one of a number of acts that saw big declines in the 90's! Sure some have come back to have big or greater successes but that doesn't take away that the 90's was a transition decade that effected the sales of artists other than Janet!
I think a lot of female artists experience decline. Some are able comeback from it & others aren't.
Janet's decline began during Damita Jo. Some of her other records might not have sold as much as her earlier records but they still sold pretty well & had successful tours. She had nothing to worry about. She was aging & changing that's why some albums don't sell as much as others. People can lose interest or not like that certain sound that's what's happened with kylie but shes bounced back & her last album was successful & her tour even more. Digital music nowadays can also effect sales.
So Janet i think she has every good chance of a decent comeback. She has a better chance & one off releases. Singles etc. David Guetta featuring Janet Jackson that kinda thing.
That will build up hype for her & gain her some new fans bring back usual fans.
With an album release again she has a good chance but i think she should take her time with it still work on it & focus on hype singles.
Cher's whole career has been sporadic at best & Kylie is yet another 80's big hitter who saw serious decline in the 90's! I don't understand what you're point is!?
All I am pointing out is that Janet was one of a number of acts that saw big declines in the 90's! Sure some have come back to have big or greater successes but that doesn't take away that the 90's was a transition decade that effected the sales of artists other than Janet!
my point is and has been pretty clear all along, janet's decline started with "the velvet rope" and her returns diminished from there and never recovered. i hope that is clear enough for you, it's certainly a factual point.
I think a lot of female artists experience decline. Some are able comeback from it & others aren't. Janet's decline began during Damita Jo. Some of her other records might not have sold as much as her earlier records but they still sold pretty well & had successful tours. She had nothing to worry about. She was aging & changing that's why some albums don't sell as much as others. People can lose interest or not like that certain sound that's what's happened with kylie but shes bounced back & her last album was successful & her tour even more. Digital music nowadays can also effect sales.
So Janet i think she has every good chance of a decent comeback. She has a better chance & one off releases. Singles etc. David Guetta featuring Janet Jackson that kinda thing.
That will build up hype for her & gain her some new fans bring back usual fans.
With an album release again she has a good chance but i think she should take her time with it still work on it & focus on hype singles.
^this^
Velvet Rope produced her biggest single to date & All For You title track was number one for 7 weeks in the US! Her album returns may have been shrinking just as her peers were but she showed no sign of faltering success until Damita Jo!
^this^
Velvet Rope produced her biggest single to date & All For You title track was number one for 7 weeks in the US! Her album returns may have been shrinking just as her peers were but she showed no sign of faltering success until Damita Jo!
that is a huge understatement, she lost 10 million sales between "janet" and "the velvet rope". to suggest she showed no sign of faltering success is ignoring the glaringly obvious fact. as for her peers, who are they exactly? you already stated celine could not considered in your opinion or anyone that had a return to commercial form in that period.
I think part of the reason Velvet rope wasnt as successful even though it had alot of airplay is because it seemed like janet was jumping on the neo-soul bandwagon (whitney also did it with my love is your love) it was a desperate attempt to remain relevant..the lead single got till its gone was just a lazy mash up of an old joni mitchel song and desrees 'feel so high' and it didnt sound fresh compared to what other r&b/neo soul artists were bringing out around that time like lauryn hill, erykah badu, d'angelo,TLC, SWV, toni braxton, mary j blige, dru hill, aaliyah etc
I Think her best song during that era was the remix of i get lonely featuring blackstreet, dont think it was on the album though. and was probably only remixed so she could team up with someone who was very successful at the time because her sales were disappointing.
I think part of the reason Velvet rope wasnt as successful even though it had alot of airplay is because it seemed like janet was jumping on the neo-soul bandwagon (whitney also did it with my love is your love) it was a desperate attempt to remain relevant..the lead single got till its gone was just a lazy mash up of an old joni mitchel song and desrees 'feel so high' and it didnt sound fresh compared to what other r&b/neo soul artists were bringing out around that time like lauryn hill, erykah badu, d'angelo, toni braxton, mary j blige, dru hill, aaliyah etc
I Think her best song during that era was the remix of i get lonely featuring blackstreet, dont think it was on the album though. and was probably only remixed so she could team up with someone who was very successful at the time.
it did seem a little early in the campaign for a remix single with a guest feature, perhaps the label weren't confident in the album's potential to deliver hits. janet was always most successful in the us, but between 1997 and 2001 and with 2 album releases, she only managed 5 top 10 hits there. now compared to "janet", which achieved 6 top 10 hits alone, a pattern of declining material and diminishing returns was emerging.
that is a huge understatement, she lost 10 million sales between "janet" and "the velvet rope". to suggest she showed no sign of faltering success is ignoring the glaringly obvious fact. as for her peers, who are they exactly? you already stated celine could not considered in your opinion or anyone that had a return to commercial form in that period.
I'm not saying she showed no sign of faltering success, I'm saying any faltering was reflected in her peers also.
& the only person I have discounted is Celine!
I'm not discounting anyone who saw brief return to forms as even they had all saw falling sales in the 90's! Madonna, Whitney & Kylie all released albums that sold half or less than previous efforts during this time frame!
I'm not saying she showed no sign of faltering success, I'm saying any faltering was reflected in her peers also.
& the only person I have discounted is Celine!
I'm not discounting anyone who saw brief return to forms as even they had all saw falling sales in the 90's! Madonna, Whitney & Kylie all released albums that sold half or less than previous efforts during this time frame!
^this^
Velvet Rope produced her biggest single to date & All For You title track was number one for 7 weeks in the US! Her album returns may have been shrinking just as her peers were but she showed no sign of faltering success until Damita Jo!
I meant in relation to other artists! Yes her album sales grew smaller, as did the majority of her 80's peers! Velvet Rope may have sold less than Janet. but was by no means in anyway a failure!
I'm interested to know what your views on True Blue & Erotica are if you think Velvet Rope was faltered campaign!
Even though The Velvet Rope and All For You were albums that didn't have the sales numbers like her other albums in the 80's and early 90's they were still popular and they held their own. As what someone said The Velvet Rope brought her the biggest song of her career and AFY the title track gave her final number one hit in the America. Her last hit top 10 hit in America to date was Someone To Call My Lover from the AFY era.
I'd say her popularity was still there but it began diminish though after the Super Bowl began going downhill.
I meant in relation to other artists! Yes her album sales grew smaller, as did the majority of her 80's peers! Velvet Rope may have sold less than Janet. but was by no means in anyway a failure!
I'm interested to know what your views on True Blue & Erotica are if you think Velvet Rope was faltered campaign!
madonna also suffered from diminishing returns during the early 90s and it looked like she would suffer the same fate as janet, which was a decade of commercial decline and the ultimate humiliation of being dropped by her record company. however, madonna changed direction and saw a commercial return. janet left it way to late to change her production team, the diminishing returns were clear to see.
"the velvet rope" was a failure, but it was the beginning of her commercial decline. the album sold half of its predecessor and delivered less hits, these are the undeniable facts of the matter.
But imo there's decline & sales falling. As i said before a lot of Female artists experienced decline. Janet's decline in popularity & success was Damita Jo. She was still very much hot with Velvet Rope i mean virgin paid her like 80 million it sold very well, the tour was successful & the same with All For You. Superbowl & Damita Jo was her decline.
Madonna is in a different league throughout her career she has been a huge success shes had slipped sales but Madonna although her sales fell & she wasn't as popular she still was a success & relevant, Bedtime Stories out sold Erotica & Take A Bow was huge in the states her most successful #1 over there then she released a successful ballad album then Evita the Golden Globe & Ray Of Light which put her back to her very high sales & she re-invented herself. Shes never experienced true decline. Some of her album sales have been lower than others but just look at her tours. Madonna is untouchable. She only ever experienced a blow & that was Erotica, Body Of Evidence & Sex Book.
it doesn't matter how many times you claim that, the facts speak for themselves. "the velvet rope" sold ten million copies less than "janet" and in america delivered 2 top 10 hits compared to 6 top 10 hits from janet. in what way is not a decline?
it doesn't matter how many times you claim that, the facts speak for themselves. "the velvet rope" sold ten million copies less than "janet" and in america delivered 2 top 10 hits compared to 6 top 10 hits from janet. in what way is not a decline?
I'm afraid not. That is losing interest, popularity falling. My idea of decline is Janet Jackson's Damita Jo or Boy George in the late 80's or nowadays Christina Aguilera. Janet was still very much a success then & same with All For You. She was hot property.
Comments
while the album was no flop, it sold about half of its predecessor, so it clearly was the beginning of her commercial decline. celine's commercial decline didn't start in that era considering the huge success of "falling into you" the year before and the later "lets talk about love", even celine's holiday album sold more than "the velvet rope". madonna's biggest selling studio album that decade came a year later and even whitney's "my love is your love" held its own compared to her earlier studio album that decade.
that's fine, it was more of a general observation on some comments on the previous page and was not aimed at you at all.
You can't include Celine in the same catagory, her sheer volume of foreign language albums give her a broader audience!
Madonna had already faltered with Erotica & Bedtime Stories & both of Whitney's 90's albums sold less than half of her two 80's releases! I'm not comparing actual figures from individual artists, I'm talking all relative! My point is Janet is just one artist of many who's sales figures saw natural declines thought the 90's & into the 00's.
Absolutely - it was/is what is popular today. The video is awesome too
of course celine can be included in that category, her foreign albums may have boosted her at her peak, but they did nothing to prevent her sales declining eventually. however, she was riding high at a period where janet's decline had already began. whitney's third album did sell roughly half compared to her 80s output, but at least she managed to maintain that level with her forth release. meanwhile, when "the velvet rope" sold half of his predecessor, it was the beginning of a classic case of diminishing returns.
i appreciate you was writing relatively, but some artists did buck the trend though and "ray of light" was typical of album that could reverse the trend for an artist under performing commercially.
Ray of Light did buck the trend but it was a comeback album the same way Emancipation was for Mariah! Both managed to buck the trend in a way few albums manage to!
I still don't include Celine however, she was flavour of the month during the 90's the same way Janet & Madonna were in the 80's!
Janet still has the potential for a decent comeback if handled correctly. But I don't think she has the drive for it anymore, we shall see!
well cher had a huge return with "believe" and kylie reached a new peak with "fever", so that is four examples just off the top of head and by only using female singers. i do agree that these occurrences are unusual, but it was possible for her reverse the trend like others managed during a similar period.
celine was at the peak of her commercial success in that time, but i was only pointing out a singer who's sales were not declining in the same period. madonna's peak was in the 80's in terms of studio album sales, but i would say janet peaked with "janet". she was successful towards the end of the 80s, but she was at the height of her popularity in the early 90s.
i do agree she could comeback with the right material and promotional campaign, but like you say, time will tell.
Cher's whole career has been sporadic at best & Kylie is yet another 80's big hitter who saw serious decline in the 90's! I don't understand what you're point is!?
All I am pointing out is that Janet was one of a number of acts that saw big declines in the 90's! Sure some have come back to have big or greater successes but that doesn't take away that the 90's was a transition decade that effected the sales of artists other than Janet!
Janet's decline began during Damita Jo. Some of her other records might not have sold as much as her earlier records but they still sold pretty well & had successful tours. She had nothing to worry about. She was aging & changing that's why some albums don't sell as much as others. People can lose interest or not like that certain sound that's what's happened with kylie but shes bounced back & her last album was successful & her tour even more. Digital music nowadays can also effect sales.
So Janet i think she has every good chance of a decent comeback. She has a better chance & one off releases. Singles etc. David Guetta featuring Janet Jackson that kinda thing.
That will build up hype for her & gain her some new fans bring back usual fans.
With an album release again she has a good chance but i think she should take her time with it still work on it & focus on hype singles.
my point is and has been pretty clear all along, janet's decline started with "the velvet rope" and her returns diminished from there and never recovered. i hope that is clear enough for you, it's certainly a factual point.
^this^
Velvet Rope produced her biggest single to date & All For You title track was number one for 7 weeks in the US! Her album returns may have been shrinking just as her peers were but she showed no sign of faltering success until Damita Jo!
that is a huge understatement, she lost 10 million sales between "janet" and "the velvet rope". to suggest she showed no sign of faltering success is ignoring the glaringly obvious fact. as for her peers, who are they exactly?
I Think her best song during that era was the remix of i get lonely featuring blackstreet, dont think it was on the album though. and was probably only remixed so she could team up with someone who was very successful at the time because her sales were disappointing.
it did seem a little early in the campaign for a remix single with a guest feature, perhaps the label weren't confident in the album's potential to deliver hits. janet was always most successful in the us, but between 1997 and 2001 and with 2 album releases, she only managed 5 top 10 hits there. now compared to "janet", which achieved 6 top 10 hits alone, a pattern of declining material and diminishing returns was emerging.
I'm not saying she showed no sign of faltering success, I'm saying any faltering was reflected in her peers also.
& the only person I have discounted is Celine!
I'm not discounting anyone who saw brief return to forms as even they had all saw falling sales in the 90's! Madonna, Whitney & Kylie all released albums that sold half or less than previous efforts during this time frame!
yes you did...
I'm interested to know what your views on True Blue & Erotica are if you think Velvet Rope was faltered campaign!
I'd say her popularity was still there but it began diminish though after the Super Bowl began going downhill.
madonna also suffered from diminishing returns during the early 90s and it looked like she would suffer the same fate as janet, which was a decade of commercial decline and the ultimate humiliation of being dropped by her record company. however, madonna changed direction and saw a commercial return. janet left it way to late to change her production team, the diminishing returns were clear to see.
"the velvet rope" was a failure, but it was the beginning of her commercial decline. the album sold half of its predecessor and delivered less hits, these are the undeniable facts of the matter.
Madonna is in a different league throughout her career she has been a huge success shes had slipped sales but Madonna although her sales fell & she wasn't as popular she still was a success & relevant, Bedtime Stories out sold Erotica & Take A Bow was huge in the states her most successful #1 over there then she released a successful ballad album then Evita the Golden Globe & Ray Of Light which put her back to her very high sales & she re-invented herself. Shes never experienced true decline. Some of her album sales have been lower than others but just look at her tours. Madonna is untouchable. She only ever experienced a blow & that was Erotica, Body Of Evidence & Sex Book.
it doesn't matter how many times you claim that, the facts speak for themselves. "the velvet rope" sold ten million copies less than "janet" and in america delivered 2 top 10 hits compared to 6 top 10 hits from janet. in what way is not a decline?
I'm afraid not. That is losing interest, popularity falling. My idea of decline is Janet Jackson's Damita Jo or Boy George in the late 80's or nowadays Christina Aguilera. Janet was still very much a success then & same with All For You. She was hot property.
Also not really a fact only your opinion