I'm all for the ones that are to do with politeness and genuine concern for others, such as not eating with your mouth open, or while talking, not hogging food from serving plates, and using a knife and fork.
All of this silliness about how people hold cutlery, and which cutlery to use, needs to go in my opinion.
Elbows on table risks pulling the table cloth and spilling drinks. Anyone who uses table cloths will know that ......... assuming that you possess a cloth to put on your table.
I still hold dear all the etiquette and manners I was taught both at school and at home, but one thing has always struck me as slightly incongruous. As a child I was taught that one did not talk at the table whilst dining and did not so. At some age in the growing up process I was suddenly expected to become Oscar Wilde and chat away at a dinner parties.
According to our etiquette teacher at school [1960/70's] one must keep ones elbows off the table when using cutlery to eat, but if conversation is in full flow one can put ones cutlery on the plate, lean forward on the table using ones elbows and contribute to the pearls of wisdom and wit. One must then remove ones elbows from the table to pick up the cutlery. [I was taught this at 5 years old which was rather silly because as stated above, children were not allowed to talk at the table.]
if that is the half assed reason then it is a scandal that parents brainwash children with such a utterly useless rule
I was only joking about the ignore list Skip
There were probably genuine reasons why alot of etiquette rules existed but most of them have now maybe just lost their reasoning/logic.
I'd still rather sit down at a table with people who showed some manners rather than at the proverbial chimp's tea party or as it's known these days - Maccy D's on a Saturday afternoon.
I still hold dear all the etiquette and manners I was taught both at school and at home, but one thing has always struck me as slightly incongruous. As a child I was taught that one did not talk at the table whilst dining and did not so. At some age in the growing up process I was suddenly expected to become Oscar Wilde and chat away at a dinner parties.
According to our etiquette teacher at school [1960/70's] one must keep ones elbows off the table when using cutlery to eat, but if conversation is in full flow one can put ones cutlery on the plate, lean forward on the table using ones elbows and contribute to the pearls of wisdom and wit. One must then remove ones elbows from the table to pick up the cutlery. [I was taught this at 5 years old which was rather silly because as stated above, children were not allowed to talk at the table.]
Having read through this thread i am pleased to announce that only a very few of the more refined DS contributors would ever be allowed to dine at my table.!!
If you have been taught good, basic table manners as a child. I'm not talking formal silver service etiquette, I'm thinking more family meals, it becomes really irritating or even repulsive to see someone who can't use a knife and fork properly, chews loudly, keeps the condiments beside them at the table, mashes up their food with a fork etc in blissful ignorance.
I dont have a dining table but i'm getting one soon. But i have always put elbows on tables whenever i felt like it, i'm not having dinner with the queen!!
I agree some of the things you listed are a bit silly, but there is a certain etiquette that needs to be practised at the table just as much today as any other era, IMO. I would say not chewing with your mouth open and not talking whilst you've got food in your mouth are an essential part of that etiquette, not to mention not reaching over the table, not chewing loudly and please and thank yous.
If you have been taught good, basic table manners as a child. I'm not talking formal silver service etiquette, I'm thinking more family meals, it becomes really irritating or even repulsive to see someone who can't use a knife and fork properly, chews loudly, keeps the condiments beside them at the table, mashes up their food with a fork etc in blissful ignorance.
What has it got to do with being middle class?
Nothing to do with class at all, unless your appalling manners leave you with a chip on your shoulder.
I dont have a dining table but i'm getting one soon. But i have always put elbows on tables whenever i felt like it, i'm not having dinner with the queen!!
Elbows on the table, IMO, is a minor misdemeanor if there is plenty of space. However, if you are sitting around a cramped table, you could be violating someone else's space = bad manners.
According to our etiquette teacher at school [1960/70's] one must keep ones elbows off the table when using cutlery to eat, but if conversation is in full flow one can put ones cutlery on the plate, lean forward on the table using ones elbows and contribute to the pearls of wisdom and wit. One must then remove ones elbows from the table to pick up the cutlery. [I was taught this at 5 years old which was rather silly because as stated above, children were not allowed to talk at the table.]
Etiquette teachers!! Did you go to a Swiss Finishing School?. We don't have etiquette teachers at school these days. It is a shame. I would have liked lessons in walking with a book on my head.
Belching and plate licking are another couple that should be up for debate.
I've known people who think belching at the table is allegedly a sign of showing your appreciation for the cooking and I'm sure it was acceptable as a child to lick the plate/bowl but can't remember at what age it became unacceptable at the table.
Elbows on the table, IMO, is a minor misdemeanor if there is plenty of space. However, if you are sitting around a cramped table, you could be violating someone else's space = bad manners.
Etiquette teachers!! Did you go to a Swiss Finishing School?. We don't have etiquette teachers at school these days. It is a shame. I would have liked lessons in walking with a book on my head.
I wonder whether all the surviving ones are in a home somewhere, arguing ever so genteelly over whether Muriel was shovelling with her fork, or whether Constance slouches over her zimmer frame.
Belching and plate licking are another couple that should be up for debate.
I've known people who think belching at the table is allegedly a sign of showing your appreciation for the cooking and I'm sure it was acceptable as a child to lick the plate/bowl but can't remember at what age it became unacceptable at the table.
Thats the problem - etiquette and manners arent universal. Many of them are based around the culture or society and what may be acceptable in one country - or in the presence of some people - may not be in others.
Etiquette teachers!! Did you go to a Swiss Finishing School?. We don't have etiquette teachers at school these days. It is a shame. I would have liked lessons in walking with a book on my head.
I'm all for the ones that are to do with politeness and genuine concern for others, such as not eating with your mouth open, or while talking, not hogging food from serving plates, and using a knife and fork.
All of this silliness about how people hold cutlery, and which cutlery to use, needs to go in my opinion.
All this. And elbows on the table are often perfectly fine.
Thing is, what about dedicated pizza etiquette? Cut slices and use the hands to eat it, or knife and fork all the way? It's the quandary of our times.
Belching and plate licking are another couple that should be up for debate.
I've known people who think belching at the table is allegedly a sign of showing your appreciation for the cooking and I'm sure it was acceptable as a child to lick the plate/bowl but can't remember at what age it became unacceptable at the table.
I believe but dont quote me to burp after a meal in Japan is good manners.
I was in Tesco today. I marvelled at the number of people who seem to be unable to walk unaided but need to rest their elbows on the trolley handle. It must have been a quarter of the customers. I wondered if it was some sort of a convention in town.
Belching and plate licking are another couple that should be up for debate.
I've known people who think belching at the table is allegedly a sign of showing your appreciation for the cooking and I'm sure it was acceptable as a child to lick the plate/bowl but can't remember at what age it became unacceptable at the table.
Yes, I hate belching full stop when people don't say "pardon me," at the table it's even worse. Plate licking is a sign of shabbiness if I ever saw one.
Comments
All of this silliness about how people hold cutlery, and which cutlery to use, needs to go in my opinion.
Sorry that you feel that people are judging how you eat your food.
My mum drummed these lessons into my brother and I as kids, making me all nostalgic!
I must admit that someone talking with their mouth full is a bit gross
so you did (I dont have an ignore list).
if that is the half assed reason then it is a scandal that parents brainwash children with such a utterly useless rule
According to our etiquette teacher at school [1960/70's] one must keep ones elbows off the table when using cutlery to eat, but if conversation is in full flow one can put ones cutlery on the plate, lean forward on the table using ones elbows and contribute to the pearls of wisdom and wit. One must then remove ones elbows from the table to pick up the cutlery. [I was taught this at 5 years old which was rather silly because as stated above, children were not allowed to talk at the table.]
I was only joking about the ignore list Skip
There were probably genuine reasons why alot of etiquette rules existed but most of them have now maybe just lost their reasoning/logic.
I'd still rather sit down at a table with people who showed some manners rather than at the proverbial chimp's tea party or as it's known these days - Maccy D's on a Saturday afternoon.
there you go folks
its crazy
What has it got to do with being middle class?
Nothing to do with class at all, unless your appalling manners leave you with a chip on your shoulder.
Elbows on the table, IMO, is a minor misdemeanor if there is plenty of space. However, if you are sitting around a cramped table, you could be violating someone else's space = bad manners.
Etiquette teachers!! Did you go to a Swiss Finishing School?. We don't have etiquette teachers at school these days. It is a shame. I would have liked lessons in walking with a book on my head.
I've known people who think belching at the table is allegedly a sign of showing your appreciation for the cooking and I'm sure it was acceptable as a child to lick the plate/bowl but can't remember at what age it became unacceptable at the table.
Of course:)
I wonder whether all the surviving ones are in a home somewhere, arguing ever so genteelly over whether Muriel was shovelling with her fork, or whether Constance slouches over her zimmer frame.
Thats the problem - etiquette and manners arent universal. Many of them are based around the culture or society and what may be acceptable in one country - or in the presence of some people - may not be in others.
Isn't that deportment rather than etiquette ?
All this. And elbows on the table are often perfectly fine.
Thing is, what about dedicated pizza etiquette? Cut slices and use the hands to eat it, or knife and fork all the way? It's the quandary of our times.
I believe but dont quote me to burp after a meal in Japan is good manners.
Vile!
I was in Tesco today. I marvelled at the number of people who seem to be unable to walk unaided but need to rest their elbows on the trolley handle. It must have been a quarter of the customers. I wondered if it was some sort of a convention in town.
Yes, I hate belching full stop when people don't say "pardon me," at the table it's even worse. Plate licking is a sign of shabbiness if I ever saw one.
God, I'm middle-aged at 21.