Before Jessica killed The Tramp he told her to contact a woman called Milner who works for MI5
Just watching the second episode now. This kind of thing really annoys me, poor writing.
The Tramp tells her to contact a woman called Milner, yet Jessica doesn't bother to ask the first name before or any other details before killing him.
Similarly the journalist tells the parliamentary aide to "get the vaccine to Donaldson, he's a scientist in Nottingham" and then walks away. Again the aide doesn't ask for Donaldson's first name or contact details, or point out that there could be hundreds of scientists called Donaldson in Nottingham. So unrealistic writing
there is a really obvious example of bad continuation, where in the shot looking at Ian, there are two plastic cups on the table and then when the camera cuts to Becky there is only one cup on the table and she has the other in her hand!QUOTE]
It sounds to me like..
Becky had picked it up?!? :yawn:
No she hadn't, it was a straight cut! Watch it again please.
Okay, fair enough , but why be rude about it? Just say you don't agree with our theories and move on. We create theories out of what we see and hear onscreen, we don't just make it up out of thin air as your original post is suggesting. I honestly couldn't care less if you disagree with me or not - that's not why I called you a troll - it's your forum manners that I am referring to. There's just no need to dismiss posters with mocking remarks as it feels like you're singling posters out and personally I feel unwelcome on a thread when a poster resorts to that behaviour.
For the record, I don't really think you're a troll - I was just joking , but I've noticed you have been a bit rude to posters (Gatehouse in particular) for simply enjoying Utopia. Just let the guy enjoy it and make his theories - myself included. If you don't agree - that's your right, but be a bit grown up about it. That's all I'm saying .
Anyway, I notcied you have similar tastes to me as I'm big fan of Homeland, District 9 and Usual Suspects .
LOL, I know 50 year olds are allowed their own opinions . Damn, I feel kind of bad now for having a go at you . You actually seem like a decent bloke, Barrie. :cool:
Fair point. I wasn't aware that I was being rude or acting like a troll, so I'll temper my comments from now on!
Has anyone else been thinking Findus is part of the Corvadt conspiracy? Talk about life imitating art!!
Arby told Letts and the Assistant that he would destroy the manuscript if he saw anyone else at the big house. He said it as if it was a threat. Why would that bother those two? You would have thought they wanted it destroyed. But it must mean something to them. They want it back, complete, for some reason.
Arby terrifies Letts.
Assistant told Letts ''We agree you should go to the lab and do the testing.'' . This is about the white box of vaccine. Who's the ''we''? I thought Assistant was Rabbit. But not sure now. Maybe it's someone we haven't seen yet.
Has anyone else been thinking Findus is part of the Corvadt conspiracy? Talk about life imitating art!!
Arby told Letts and the Assistant that he would destroy the manuscript if he saw anyone else at the big house. He said it as if it was a threat. Why would that bother those two? You would have thought they wanted it destroyed. But it must mean something to them. They want it back, complete, for some reason.
Arby terrifies Letts.
Assistant told Letts ''We agree you should go to the lab and do the testing.'' . This is about the white box of vaccine. Who's the ''we''? I thought Assistant was Rabbit. But not sure now. Maybe it's someone we haven't seen yet.
It's a confusing time to be a vegetarian...you want to feel smug, but instead feel simply perplexed: horse, cow..what's the difference?!? Isn't it like me discovering that they've fed me peas instead of beans?
Anyway, back on topic..good point with The Tramp. That would probably kill the "Jessica isn't Jessica" idea (not one that I liked). The Tramp even calls her "Jess" at one point, very familiar. I don't think he expects her to do what she does..maybe we've got Jessica going haywire just like Arby? The Tramp was working with Milner-or at least connected to her. Although Jessica argues that he was killed to "pull up the rope", that does potentially put Jessica in an adversarial position to Milner despite what she says about her being someone who can help.
As for Assistant..hee hee, we're really set up to believe that he's Assistant to Letts-partly because that's the view that Dugdale and his Ministry boss have to see in Ep1. But it's looking more and more like Letts isn't Rabbit; but I don't think Assistant is either. He's Assistant to Rabbit, but that's most likely someone we haven't seen. The "we" who decided he'd do the test sound like the people that held the majority vote in a discussion which featured Letts as an insignificant minority. Exactly the same as "we agreed that only you can give the order"-and chucks him the phone-with the school shooting. Letts looks very unhappy-he's looking like a very manipulated front-man. In which case we could see a situation where he works with the gang.
There's a little part of the scene with Dugdale in Ep 1 where he hints that he himself is another manipulated cog. "Everyman has a mission in life, Dugdale...you should make this yours". He's a bit weary in his delivery-rather than that entirely being for Dugdale's benefit, in a "look, you have to do this" menacing way, maybe it hints at him having done the very same thing when younger. And look at him now-head of a company with a Knighthood, not bad at all. Maybe, as Geoff did to Dugdale, someone once made a young Letts an offer to "make his life absolutely wonderful"?
At the very least I think that Letts & Assistant represent the middle of a hierarchy that goes up higher than them. Which is another theory that could all get entirely blown out of the water in Ep5 Scene 1 if Grant is going to the door because he's remembered Letts' name from the manuscript..
OK I've hedged my bets, I've got my "Letts is Rabbit" and my "Letts isn't Rabbit" theories sorted now
Now the "joker" theory: Letts is Rabbit, but isn't that bad guy he's been made out to be: he now wants out, just like Carvel did? Not entirely impossible! When he tells Arby what was done to him he seems genuinely upset, despite the fact that "he was there" according to Arby. Yet Arby doesn't kill Letts...seems Letts is the only person that has ever shown Arby some compassion."They called you Raisin Boy, when they forgot your name"-but Letts always remembered it. It could be his moment to draw a line in the sand. You never know!
What evidence is there that Utopia was originally commissioned by Sky? I love a conspiracy theory, but even I can't quite believe that one ...
Credits have BSkyB for 'Development finance'.
CV of Hannah Billingham
Other clients include: Sky 1 Drama (including research on original conspiracy thriller series, that was subsequently picked up by Channel 4, became UTOPIA and will be airing from 15th January);
love how people are spennding so much time analyzing this show, as if it has been intricately plotted out. It was obvious from ep 1 and 2 that this show made little sense logically, and es full of improbable events. there's no need to deeply analyze how x is connected to y and how that relates to z, because the writers have not properly thought it out themselves. it is just a stylishly made, quirky mystery. In terms of plot logic, you will find more in an average episode of The Bill.
I garantee at the end of this every single person will be saying 'hang on, that doesn't make sense because....'
love how people are spennding so much time analyzing this show, as if it has been intricately plotted out. It was obvious from ep 1 and 2 that this show made little sense logically, and es full of improbable events. there's no need to deeply analyze how x is connected to y and how that relates to z, because the writers have not properly thought it out themselves. it is just a stylishly made, quirky mystery. In terms of plot logic, you will find more in an average episode of The Bill.
I garantee at the end of this every single person will be saying 'hang on, that doesn't make sense because....'
That is the point that I was trying to make previously but I was accused of being a troll!
For example, I keep reading people talk about Dugdale being the hero, the every-man who has been wronged and victimised. But look at his behaviour: he's been sleeping with a prostitute behind his wife's back whilst they are having IVF treatment ("No wanking in there, mucky little puppy, IVF clinic on Friday!"..well, he's been doing a lot worse than that!). Then look at his general behaviour-he lies and bluffs constantly, not always with "just" cause. He costs his boss his job. His first scene is an abortive suicide attempt by a man who hates what he's become. He only helps others (the journo, Donaldson...Geoff ) to help himself or when he has nowhere else to turn. He's prepared to risk his wife getting brutally raped. Not exactly your every-man hero, is he?!? Again, he's a complicated, conflicted character who is at a totally skewed perspective from everything going on around him. He's not even sure why he's doing what he's doing any more..Ultimately, I think his hitting of rock-bottom as a man has allowed him to effectively sacrifice what's left of his broken self to try and regain some kind of moral redemption. That's good enough for us to root for him in a questing, comic-book way.
I had wondered if Dugdale was only concerned about getting exposed, and didn't really care about his Russian prostitute. Now we've seen him risk everything to get the prostitute released. Of course, that may be because she's pregnant, which is something his wife can't manage. It may be his child he really cares about.
I was a bit saddened that he turned out to be not much better than the Donaldson. Both had the means to expose the conspiracy. Neither did so. They both instead wanted to blackmail the conspirators: Donaldson to regain his position, Dugdale to rescue his girlfriend. Still, at least Dugdale isn't entirely selfish. And he has been pro-active, travelling to Scotland and risking infection. He also managed to trick the conspiracy. I think he thought his wife was safe from rape because he over-estimated the strength of his hand.
Oh, and Grant is a suspiciously talented artist. Something a little more child-like would have been more plausible, and still allowed them to keep the plot device of him being able to recreate the pages of the manuscript from memory.
I didn't think he was recreating pages of the manuscript from memory. Jessica tore pages out and gave them to him before handing the manuscript to Arby (and Letts & co mentioned the pages missing, so it was the original not copies that were torn out). I thought when Wilson caught Grant with them, he just assumed they were copies.
Yes, Jessica is one bloody creepy woman :eek::eek:. I felt sorry for Ian, having a gun held to his head, then forced to kiss that robot woman :eek::eek:. What the hell was going through her head?
It seemed to me that Becky was also manipulating Ian, and going much further than a kiss. It might just be the sort of woman she is, but she jumped into bed with him the first night they met, despite knowing him to be a bit weird. And then again later. It's possible Jessica was trying to upset that dynamic.
It's a confusing time to be a vegetarian...you want to feel smug, but instead feel simply perplexed: horse, cow..what's the difference?!? Isn't it like me discovering that they've fed me peas instead of beans?
It's partly because beef is more expensive than horse-meat, so people feel they've been cheated. There's also a health issue (despite the PM denying it). If they don't know what sort of meat it is, and they don't really know where it came from, they don't know whether it is fit for human consumption.
Funnily enough, I just spotted that on the end credits ... but I still find it extremely weird that Sky have been credited in that way. After all, was LWT credited for developing the short-lived BBC One drama Mayo? No. Was ITV credited for having developed and even broadcast Men Behaving Badly before the BBC picked it up? No. And is the BBC credited for having developed and produced This Is Jinsy before Sky Atlantic revived it? Not to my knowledge.
This seems a bizarre precedent - and, given that relations between Sky and C4 aren't known to be that good, it's hard to understand why the channel would agree to it. And, after all, if Sky believed in it, why didn't they go ahead to a full series, rather than drop it? It's not like they can't afford it ...
Funnily enough, I just spotted that on the end credits ... but I still find it extremely weird that Sky have been credited in that way. After all, was LWT credited for developing the short-lived BBC One drama Mayo? No. Was ITV credited for having developed and even broadcast Men Behaving Badly before the BBC picked it up? No. And is the BBC credited for having developed and produced This Is Jinsy before Sky Atlantic revived it? Not to my knowledge.
This seems a bizarre precedent - and, given that relations between Sky and C4 aren't known to be that good, it's hard to understand why the channel would agree to it. And, after all, if Sky believed in it, why didn't they go ahead to a full series, rather than drop it? It's not like they can't afford it ...
It's not a precedent at all, there are any number of films/dramas etc that are financed by Sky or Channel 4 which appear all over the different networks. Just take a closer look at the end credits sometimes.
If you go into any library there's a directory of professionals that will give you their contact details. That or simply googling them usually does it!
If you go into any library there's a directory of professionals that will give you their contact details. That or simply googling them usually does it!
Can't be that many Proffs in Sheffield? The DoH would have info on them.
OR;)
Dugdale chased after the reporter in the newsroom and then it cut to Becky in the bath. So I assume we didn't see all of the conversation between Dugdale and Kaye.
It's not a precedent at all, there are any number of films/dramas etc that are financed by Sky or Channel 4 which appear all over the different networks. Just take a closer look at the end credits sometimes.
The French Canal+ drama Spiral gives a credit to BBC4 at the end of each ep. ''En association avec BBC Four'' to be precise. BBC has been part funding this drama since 2008.
Looking forward to tomorrow's episode. Hopefully, we will find out a bit more about the Network's endgame and get some answers to some of the other mysteries.
Looking forward to tomorrow's episode. Hopefully, we will find out a bit more about the Network's endgame and get some answers to some of the other mysteries.
1) Letts isn't Rabbit, so it's either Assistant or his superiors. Or someone who is lying about their identity.
2) Letts has "been abandoned", hee hee
3) The phone given to the gang contains a tracking device: the phone given them by Milner? This at least backs up my "they always know where they are" story vis a vis Skinhead, Arby, etc. They also know where they are now...so why haven't they taken them out?
Love it, another preformance to entrench the guy as one of my favourite actors
:eek::eek: Great clip! Thanks
So does that mean we can rule out Letts being Mr Rabbit? They checked his stomach and there was no sign of any Chinese letters (although, he could have had it surgically removed somehow). So it looks like I was right, Letts was a red herring to make us think he was Mr Rabbit. As was Munroe. I suppose the Assisant is the only one left now on the Suspect List. Personally, I think it's someone we haven't met yet.
Regarding the phone tracker... what the hell was that about? Letts said the Network knew where they were all along? So why haven't they attempted to kill or capture them yet? Why is it taking so long for them to find their current location?The writers need to be careful, they could end up shooting themselves in the foot with this.
Comments
The Tramp tells her to contact a woman called Milner, yet Jessica doesn't bother to ask the first name before or any other details before killing him.
Similarly the journalist tells the parliamentary aide to "get the vaccine to Donaldson, he's a scientist in Nottingham" and then walks away. Again the aide doesn't ask for Donaldson's first name or contact details, or point out that there could be hundreds of scientists called Donaldson in Nottingham. So unrealistic writing
I think he claims that they test cat food where he works? He's not very convincing about it!
Fair point. I wasn't aware that I was being rude or acting like a troll, so I'll temper my comments from now on!
oops, just rewatched Ep 2,
Arby told Letts and the Assistant that he would destroy the manuscript if he saw anyone else at the big house. He said it as if it was a threat. Why would that bother those two? You would have thought they wanted it destroyed. But it must mean something to them. They want it back, complete, for some reason.
Arby terrifies Letts.
Assistant told Letts ''We agree you should go to the lab and do the testing.'' . This is about the white box of vaccine. Who's the ''we''? I thought Assistant was Rabbit. But not sure now. Maybe it's someone we haven't seen yet.
It's a confusing time to be a vegetarian...you want to feel smug, but instead feel simply perplexed: horse, cow..what's the difference?!? Isn't it like me discovering that they've fed me peas instead of beans?
Anyway, back on topic..good point with The Tramp. That would probably kill the "Jessica isn't Jessica" idea (not one that I liked). The Tramp even calls her "Jess" at one point, very familiar. I don't think he expects her to do what she does..maybe we've got Jessica going haywire just like Arby? The Tramp was working with Milner-or at least connected to her. Although Jessica argues that he was killed to "pull up the rope", that does potentially put Jessica in an adversarial position to Milner despite what she says about her being someone who can help.
As for Assistant..hee hee, we're really set up to believe that he's Assistant to Letts-partly because that's the view that Dugdale and his Ministry boss have to see in Ep1. But it's looking more and more like Letts isn't Rabbit; but I don't think Assistant is either. He's Assistant to Rabbit, but that's most likely someone we haven't seen. The "we" who decided he'd do the test sound like the people that held the majority vote in a discussion which featured Letts as an insignificant minority. Exactly the same as "we agreed that only you can give the order"-and chucks him the phone-with the school shooting. Letts looks very unhappy-he's looking like a very manipulated front-man. In which case we could see a situation where he works with the gang.
There's a little part of the scene with Dugdale in Ep 1 where he hints that he himself is another manipulated cog. "Everyman has a mission in life, Dugdale...you should make this yours". He's a bit weary in his delivery-rather than that entirely being for Dugdale's benefit, in a "look, you have to do this" menacing way, maybe it hints at him having done the very same thing when younger. And look at him now-head of a company with a Knighthood, not bad at all. Maybe, as Geoff did to Dugdale, someone once made a young Letts an offer to "make his life absolutely wonderful"?
At the very least I think that Letts & Assistant represent the middle of a hierarchy that goes up higher than them. Which is another theory that could all get entirely blown out of the water in Ep5 Scene 1 if Grant is going to the door because he's remembered Letts' name from the manuscript..
OK I've hedged my bets, I've got my "Letts is Rabbit" and my "Letts isn't Rabbit" theories sorted now
Now the "joker" theory: Letts is Rabbit, but isn't that bad guy he's been made out to be: he now wants out, just like Carvel did? Not entirely impossible! When he tells Arby what was done to him he seems genuinely upset, despite the fact that "he was there" according to Arby. Yet Arby doesn't kill Letts...seems Letts is the only person that has ever shown Arby some compassion."They called you Raisin Boy, when they forgot your name"-but Letts always remembered it. It could be his moment to draw a line in the sand. You never know!
Credits have BSkyB for 'Development finance'.
CV of Hannah Billingham
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/hannah-billingham/27/66a/43a
I garantee at the end of this every single person will be saying 'hang on, that doesn't make sense because....'
That is the point that I was trying to make previously but I was accused of being a troll!
I was a bit saddened that he turned out to be not much better than the Donaldson. Both had the means to expose the conspiracy. Neither did so. They both instead wanted to blackmail the conspirators: Donaldson to regain his position, Dugdale to rescue his girlfriend. Still, at least Dugdale isn't entirely selfish. And he has been pro-active, travelling to Scotland and risking infection. He also managed to trick the conspiracy. I think he thought his wife was safe from rape because he over-estimated the strength of his hand.
I didn't think he was recreating pages of the manuscript from memory. Jessica tore pages out and gave them to him before handing the manuscript to Arby (and Letts & co mentioned the pages missing, so it was the original not copies that were torn out). I thought when Wilson caught Grant with them, he just assumed they were copies.
It seemed to me that Becky was also manipulating Ian, and going much further than a kiss. It might just be the sort of woman she is, but she jumped into bed with him the first night they met, despite knowing him to be a bit weird. And then again later. It's possible Jessica was trying to upset that dynamic.
It's partly because beef is more expensive than horse-meat, so people feel they've been cheated. There's also a health issue (despite the PM denying it). If they don't know what sort of meat it is, and they don't really know where it came from, they don't know whether it is fit for human consumption.
Funnily enough, I just spotted that on the end credits ... but I still find it extremely weird that Sky have been credited in that way. After all, was LWT credited for developing the short-lived BBC One drama Mayo? No. Was ITV credited for having developed and even broadcast Men Behaving Badly before the BBC picked it up? No. And is the BBC credited for having developed and produced This Is Jinsy before Sky Atlantic revived it? Not to my knowledge.
This seems a bizarre precedent - and, given that relations between Sky and C4 aren't known to be that good, it's hard to understand why the channel would agree to it. And, after all, if Sky believed in it, why didn't they go ahead to a full series, rather than drop it? It's not like they can't afford it ...
It's not a precedent at all, there are any number of films/dramas etc that are financed by Sky or Channel 4 which appear all over the different networks. Just take a closer look at the end credits sometimes.
If you go into any library there's a directory of professionals that will give you their contact details. That or simply googling them usually does it!
Deleted
Can't be that many Proffs in Sheffield? The DoH would have info on them.
OR;)
Dugdale chased after the reporter in the newsroom and then it cut to Becky in the bath. So I assume we didn't see all of the conversation between Dugdale and Kaye.
The French Canal+ drama Spiral gives a credit to BBC4 at the end of each ep. ''En association avec BBC Four'' to be precise. BBC has been part funding this drama since 2008.
Haha, no problem. Glad we've come to an understanding
So what are your own theories about the show? Probably a bit less creative than mine and Gatehouse's theories
Well I couldn't wait! I can now enjoy re-watching Ep4 tomorrow before Ep5 knowing the few bits that I've picked up from here-WARNING, BIG SPOILER ALERT! : http://www.channel4.com/programmes/utopia/video/series-1/episode-5/s1-ep5-the-interrogation
Love it, another preformance to entrench the guy as one of my favourite actors
2) Letts has "been abandoned", hee hee
3) The phone given to the gang contains a tracking device: the phone given them by Milner? This at least backs up my "they always know where they are" story vis a vis Skinhead, Arby, etc. They also know where they are now...so why haven't they taken them out?
:eek::eek: Great clip! Thanks
Regarding the phone tracker... what the hell was that about? Letts said the Network knew where they were all along? So why haven't they attempted to kill or capture them yet? Why is it taking so long for them to find their current location?The writers need to be careful, they could end up shooting themselves in the foot with this.
Thanks again for the clip