Go on then - show me a thread about a woman killed in a council estate that has generated more than 600 pages on GD.
You don't think there's some kind of obsession going on with this trial?
GD does not represent the country or the whole world.
It's just a forum for a few thousand posters.
What does it matter what anyone discuss's in a forum as long as people are allowed to discuss.
Infringement of free speech is dangerous and if one only wants to discuss what one thinks is worth discussing by a few posters, why would anyone want to put a stop to that? How can that upset anyone?
Tolerance is the name of the game in a Democracy. We need lots more of it.
And there's always a first for everything whether in GD or anywhere else.
Indeed. The obsession with/addiction to anything Pistorius related on here is just completely surreal.
"All we want is justice for Reeva!"
Oh really? You knew her personally then did you? If the victim had been some poor woman from a council estate in Leicester no-one would give a damn.
Do you realize how bad female abuse is in SA?
"South Africa has one of the highest incidences of domestic violence in the world. And, sadly, domestic violence is the most common and widespread human rights abuse in South Africa. Every day, women are murdered, physically and sexually assaulted, threatened and humiliated by their partners, within their own homes. Organisations estimate that one out of every six woman in South Africa is regularly assaulted by her partner. In at least 46 per cent of cases, the men involved also abuse the children living with the woman."
Had the same happened here that killer would have been jailed. But in SA they seem to walk free or get a light sentence.
I hope that if Reeve does get justice it will help the millions of women who suffer abuse everyday of their lives. Something needs to change out there.
It's true that a huge amount of interest has been generated by this killing and trial, largely because it was televised and allowed millions of people to form 'virtual' relationships with the personalities shown on screen,
But I think the interest is also fueled by the spectacular difference between OP's glowing, good-boy exterior and the reality of his private life, not to mention the surprising discovery that Reeva Steenkamp appears to have been a genuinely warm, honest, intelligent, loveable human being - there hasn't been even a hint that she wasn't a 24ct good person. This is not quite what we cynically expect when these high-octane relationships are examined.
But apart from the personalities involved, I hope very much that there's an appeal. It offends me that there was flawed logic involved in the verdicts. I expect much, much better from a senior judge.
Notice the NPA denying the process of appeal has stated here.
Usually when a government body denies something the opposite is true
I think they're just not ready to announce anything, so naturally they have to deny such reports. They first need to make sure that the way is clear for an appeal.
Ok.
The point is
a) she was a very good looking model
b) he is a very good looking successful athlete
c) no-one would give a damn if none of the above applied
Joanna Yates:
A) Not a very good looking model Her killer was not a "very good looking" athlete
C) People gave a damn
In fact, virtually all the murders that provoke public discussion involve perfectly ordinary people so your logic is non-existant.
Will new evidence be allowed in an appeal? First and foremost I am thinking of the denim jeans found outside the bathroom window.
Also, the disappearance and the subsequant wiping of his phone by his brother?
Surely these are factors that must come to light.
Will new evidence be allowed in an appeal? First and foremost I am thinking of the denim jeans found outside the bathroom window.
Also, the disappearance and the subsequant of his phone by his brother?
Surely these are factors that must come to light.
I don't think so . It's not a retrial. Only the court record AFAIK. It s purely to discuss the evidence presented and whether Masipa on that. Evidence came to the correct verdict.
Will new evidence be allowed in an appeal? First and foremost I am thinking of the denim jeans found outside the bathroom window.
Also, the disappearance and the subsequant wiping of his phone by his brother?
Surely these are factors that must come to light.
The jeans are not new evidence - photographs showing them were entered into evidence.
The shenanigans with the phone seems to have been left out by agreement, so I doubt it could be entered at a later stage.
Something that might be admissible in any new proceedings is the re-enactment video, which was never referred to in court.
Ok.
The point is
a) she was a very good looking model
b) he is a very good looking successful athlete
c) no-one would give a damn if none of the above applied
This is largely true, IMO. People won't admit to it though, of course.
This is largely true, IMO. People won't admit to it though, of course.
Why would anyone deny it why did S Africa allow it to be televised. Because it was so newsworthy . And that's why it's being discussed here and. On thousands of media places all over the world. In the same way as well know people are reported on in the newspapers for any crime I suppose.
I'm not sure that there's an appetite politically for this. The trial was embarrassing for SA and there may be a school of thought high up that wants it brushed under the carpet and forgotten.
However, there are serious issues with possession and DE and these have to be sorted one way or another.
At the moment I'm 50/50 on it.
I WANT an appeal though, not because I care about OP anymore to be honest, but because the verdict has been so damaging to the system of law in SA and has made the people of SA lose faith in impartial justice.
Here we are as one, I think the feeling is very much lets move on. The trouble is the 5+3 years mostly "suspended" is a one size fits all sentence that is going to satisfy no one.
Will Nel be appealing the entire verdict, just the DE/CH, the sentence, premed or what?
Indeed. The obsession with/addiction to anything Pistorius related on here is just completely surreal.
"All we want is justice for Reeva!"
Oh really? You knew her personally then did you? If the victim had been some poor woman from a council estate in Leicester no-one would give a damn.
I didn't know either of them before the trial. I was more interested in being able to follow a trial and peoples reactions to it rather than the personalities. I'll leave that to other threads.
If an appeal occurs the focus will shift to the law and how it is wrangled in the SA system and away from those invloved. This may not be a bad thing after the thread dedicated to the trial which for all its many faults did generate some high quality debate.
I'm not expecting an appeal. I suspect Nel probably wants to lodge one but I got the impression the Steenkamp family have accepted the punishment and I think any appeal would need to be authorised by them. The Pistorius family have no choice but to accept it. So I don't see an appeal being lodged by either side. Everyone will want to move on I suspect.
Will new evidence be allowed in an appeal? First and foremost I am thinking of the denim jeans found outside the bathroom window.
Also, the disappearance and the subsequant wiping of his phone by his brother?
Surely these are factors that must come to light.
This isn't new evidence. These issues were fully known about prior to the trial and the state did not pursue them. There will have been a reason for this.
I'm not expecting an appeal. I suspect Nel probably wants to lodge one but I got the impression the Steenkamp family have accepted the punishment and I think any appeal would need to be authorised by them. The Pistorius family have no choice but to accept it. So I don't see an appeal being lodged by either side. Everyone will want to move on I suspect.
This isn't new evidence. These issues were fully known about prior to the trial and the state did not pursue them. There will have been a reason for this.
I would not think that the Steenkamps would have a say in it if it is an error of law.
Court judgements set precedents that can be referred to when deciding future cases....that's why Roux and Nel cited case law in their heads. This case law could also be citedin the future, making it very dangerous if it is indeed erroneous.
This is why the likes of Grant & Davic want to see it appealed, not because they give much of a stuff about Pistorius.
Reeva's parents are totally irrelevant & will have no say in whether it's appealed.
Go on then - show me a thread about a woman killed in a council estate that has generated more than 600 pages on GD.
You don't think there's some kind of obsession going on with this trial?
Meredith Kerchers murder. That thread went on for years and she came from a normal background as did her killers. I think both that trial and this one have caught people's imaginations as there is mystery around the exact circumstances of both murders and we all like to be arm chair sleuths.
Court judgements set precedents that can be referred to when deciding future cases....that's why Roux and Nel cited case law in their heads. This case law could also be citedin the future, making it very dangerous if it is indeed erroneous.
This is why the likes of Grant & Davic want to see it appealed, not because they give much of a stuff about Pistorius.
Reeva's parents are totally irrelevant & will have no say in whether it's appealed.
That is about the Sum of it, with the addition of unwinding an Appeal restrictions spun off a 30 year old Ruling.
Comments
GD does not represent the country or the whole world.
It's just a forum for a few thousand posters.
What does it matter what anyone discuss's in a forum as long as people are allowed to discuss.
Infringement of free speech is dangerous and if one only wants to discuss what one thinks is worth discussing by a few posters, why would anyone want to put a stop to that? How can that upset anyone?
Tolerance is the name of the game in a Democracy. We need lots more of it.
And there's always a first for everything whether in GD or anywhere else.
Do you realize how bad female abuse is in SA?
"South Africa has one of the highest incidences of domestic violence in the world. And, sadly, domestic violence is the most common and widespread human rights abuse in South Africa. Every day, women are murdered, physically and sexually assaulted, threatened and humiliated by their partners, within their own homes. Organisations estimate that one out of every six woman in South Africa is regularly assaulted by her partner. In at least 46 per cent of cases, the men involved also abuse the children living with the woman."
Taken from this link.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.divorcelaws.co.za%2Fdomestic-violence.html&ei=mhxNVJC9D8KP7AaMyoCgCw&usg=AFQjCNFGUVpZ8L3MmU4wRyBJnLThwM9ZMQ&sig2=QLA-Tj3kzPmE_n8H40naQA
Had the same happened here that killer would have been jailed. But in SA they seem to walk free or get a light sentence.
I hope that if Reeve does get justice it will help the millions of women who suffer abuse everyday of their lives. Something needs to change out there.
But I think the interest is also fueled by the spectacular difference between OP's glowing, good-boy exterior and the reality of his private life, not to mention the surprising discovery that Reeva Steenkamp appears to have been a genuinely warm, honest, intelligent, loveable human being - there hasn't been even a hint that she wasn't a 24ct good person. This is not quite what we cynically expect when these high-octane relationships are examined.
But apart from the personalities involved, I hope very much that there's an appeal. It offends me that there was flawed logic involved in the verdicts. I expect much, much better from a senior judge.
I think they're just not ready to announce anything, so naturally they have to deny such reports. They first need to make sure that the way is clear for an appeal.
Thank you.
I agree with both statements.
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/oscars-r17-5million-legal-headache/
Joanna Yates:
A) Not a very good looking model
C) People gave a damn
In fact, virtually all the murders that provoke public discussion involve perfectly ordinary people so your logic is non-existant.
Also, the disappearance and the subsequant wiping of his phone by his brother?
Surely these are factors that must come to light.
I don't think so . It's not a retrial. Only the court record AFAIK. It s purely to discuss the evidence presented and whether Masipa on that. Evidence came to the correct verdict.
Extremely enlightening article. Thanks for the link.
Explains why uncle Arny said that they would not appeal.
The jeans are not new evidence - photographs showing them were entered into evidence.
The shenanigans with the phone seems to have been left out by agreement, so I doubt it could be entered at a later stage.
Something that might be admissible in any new proceedings is the re-enactment video, which was never referred to in court.
This is largely true, IMO. People won't admit to it though, of course.
A famous person being tried for murder is bound to capture public interest, but as Donmack observed, crimes involving ordinary people often do so too.
Why would anyone deny it
Here we are as one, I think the feeling is very much lets move on. The trouble is the 5+3 years mostly "suspended" is a one size fits all sentence that is going to satisfy no one.
Will Nel be appealing the entire verdict, just the DE/CH, the sentence, premed or what?
Will there be a retrial as a result?
I'm new to this part of the process.
I didn't know either of them before the trial. I was more interested in being able to follow a trial and peoples reactions to it rather than the personalities. I'll leave that to other threads.
If an appeal occurs the focus will shift to the law and how it is wrangled in the SA system and away from those invloved. This may not be a bad thing after the thread dedicated to the trial which for all its many faults did generate some high quality debate.
This isn't new evidence. These issues were fully known about prior to the trial and the state did not pursue them. There will have been a reason for this.
I would not think that the Steenkamps would have a say in it if it is an error of law.
This is why the likes of Grant & Davic want to see it appealed, not because they give much of a stuff about Pistorius.
Reeva's parents are totally irrelevant & will have no say in whether it's appealed.
Meredith Kerchers murder. That thread went on for years and she came from a normal background as did her killers. I think both that trial and this one have caught people's imaginations as there is mystery around the exact circumstances of both murders and we all like to be arm chair sleuths.
That is about the Sum of it, with the addition of unwinding an Appeal restrictions spun off a 30 year old Ruling.
Therein lies the problem I suspect.
Smoke and Mirrors unless Frank is enjoying a Millionaire Life Style on a beach in the Bahamas.