Your fiance has just had a heart-attack. So what do you do? You accuse his illness of providing a significant excuse for him to avoid marrying you. You expect a man who has just had a heart attack and thus in a position where he'd be immobile to have with him the present he claims he was intending to give to you as 'evidence.' You then proceed to claim you'd made an 'early escape' and you don't expect your fiance to hit back. And when he does, in response to your outrageously insensitive and entitled behaviour, you get all offended and walk out.
Sometimes I think Carol got upset because her narrative to Ian regarding David was proven rather wrong.
Carol and David aren't some love story. They are though, people who in many ways haven't really achieved in life what they wanted to; if they had any idea what they wanted in life at all. And their union could probably be described as 'settling.' But David is still probably Carol's best chance at any kind of happiness. It's almost as if Carol doesn't want to be happy; but be perennially miserable forever. It's clear, like everyone else in Walford she has trust issues - and her are with men - but Carol's issues go so far that she seems to desire this 'perfect man.' She'll never attain. It's ridiculous. Masood was too 'safe', David is too 'untrustworthy.'
I find her character fascinating to watch, but my god she isn't half annoying sometimes.
Very well put, especially BIB. From the conversation she had with Ian, I felt that's exactly what Carol was doing, settling for happiness. It didn't sound to me like she was particularly in love with David but had found someone she could felt like she could be content enough with. But then David being David always had to go and mess it up and I think that she was lashing out, all her frustrations over the times he let down came out even though she knew after the fact that he hadn't done anything deliberately on this occasion.
Carol has very little tenderness or understanding. She speaks harshly to her family and has been nothing more than aggressive to David at times, making me wonder what more the poor guy could do to "prove" he wanted to be there? She is, as other posters have said,, an old cow who is now very difficult to have sympathy for. Dodging bullets is always a good thing.
I have to agree with every conment regarding Carol - moody, miserable, bitching, self-pitying and undeserving of someone like David, in fact undeserving of anyone who actually cares about her.
To throw his heart attack in his face and make out that he was guilty of something was simply lower than the low. David would be better off without her, she is destined to be a bitter and twisted cow for the rest of her life
This scene demonstrates why this show is still far from out of the woods. Any EP who sanctioned that dialogue is the not the great saviour most people are claiming.
I can understand her thinking initially she'd been jilted but when she found out he'd had a heart attack instead you'd think she'd have been relieved but no she reverted to default mode and claimed he'd engineered this heart attack to avoid the alter.
Actually im team David this time, he has fought hard with himself to resist nikki which is way off character for him, particularly as she is doing all the running and flaunting it right in his face, under normal circumstances he would have dived in with both feet and his arse strapped to a board. But as unsettled as he was about committing to carol he fought nikki off and was determined to marry carol.
Of course when she finds out about nikki that will give her reason to have another go at him, rather than praise him for rejecting her advances which carol knows full well goes against Davids grain.
I want to see David blow up at her, give her a few home truths then bin her off, once and for all.
The scene with Ian was really important in helping you understand why she reacted the way she did.
It's through Ian she speaks out against David, realising he's a broken and slightly pathetic man with lie after lie after lie and the fact that she had almost just accepted that he'd done a runner - that she would expect that from him.
"With some people it's booze, drugs or ****... With me it's always been David."
Carol knows that she's worse off being with him and they'll no doubt explore that further in tonight's episode.
The scene with Ian was really important in helping you understand why she reacted the way she did.
It's through Ian she speaks out against David, realising he's a broken and slightly pathetic man with lie after lie after lie and the fact that she had almost just accepted that he'd done a runner - that she would expect that from him.
"With some people it's booze, drugs or ****... With me it's always been David."
Carol knows that she's worse off being with him and they'll no doubt explore that further in tonight's episode.
Yes exactly. David doesnt help Carol. He just doesnt. He doesnt actually make her happy when you look at it. She tells him clearly 'I dont want a fuss' and David cannot take no for an answer. David always thinks he knows better and knows what Carol really wants. Maybe, just maybe, when Carol says she wants a quiet night in...she isnt being a martyr she actually just wants a quiet night in.
David is flash and Carol isnt. Carol wants an idealised version of David BUT he can never be that, despite all his efforts and protestations that he has changed, that he wants her, he doesnt as he doesnt accept what she tells him. Fundamentally they are trying to change one another rather than accept one another.
I think its been clear from the start that whilst they have great chemistry and David can bring the light side out in Carol ultimately he just keeps getting it wrong and does not listen to reason.
She's a yo-yo knickered tart that's turned into a shrew. Worst of it all is her daughter Bianca has turned into an even more extreme version of her and it's looking like Tiffany's going to be twisted, argumentative little madam.
I could not believe carols reaction last night when she got to the hospital honestly who acts like that,not what i was expecting at all, i had imagined them getting married in the hospital just before David dies, great twist in the story .
I expected she'd be sweet and loving and so relieved he hadn't died. It should have been a tender moment. I know misunderstandings can occur but two people in love and about to marry shouldn't behave like that. maybe they will now realise they are not meant to be together.
It was extremely odd of her. Maybe in the next episode or two we'll see her regretting saying it. To be honest it's the kind of comment only a really twisted, selfish bastard would say. It was a heart attack, for f#cks sake!
I know people say horrible things in the heat of the moment, but she really was nasty last night. She would do well to remember how much David has supported her through her treatment.
She was absolutely pathetic last night. Who the heck talks to someone who just had a heart attack like that? And she didn't even expect him to retaliate?? Pfft
She needs to get a grip, and get off her high horse.
Does she not remember that it was David who helped her through her treatment?
She was absolutely pathetic last night. Who the heck talks to someone who just had a heart attack like that? And she didn't even expect him to retaliate?? Pfft
She needs to get a grip, and get off her high horse.
Does she not remember that it was David who helped her through her treatment?
He's supported her for months but when he's ill she can't even be civil to him.
Yes exactly. David doesnt help Carol. He just doesnt. He doesnt actually make her happy when you look at it. She tells him clearly 'I dont want a fuss' and David cannot take no for an answer. David always thinks he knows better and knows what Carol really wants. Maybe, just maybe, when Carol says she wants a quiet night in...she isnt being a martyr she actually just wants a quiet night in.
David is flash and Carol isnt. Carol wants an idealised version of David BUT he can never be that, despite all his efforts and protestations that he has changed, that he wants her, he doesnt as he doesnt accept what she tells him. Fundamentally they are trying to change one another rather than accept one another.
I think its been clear from the start that whilst they have great chemistry and David can bring the light side out in Carol ultimately he just keeps getting it wrong and does not listen to reason.
David is a misogynist when all is said and done.
How exactly is David a misogynist Nothing you've said in your post is evidence of that, just that Carol and him aren't 100% in sync which is surely the norm in any relationship. I appreciate he has been a womaniser in his time, but so has half the Square IE the males so if that makes him a misogynist then . . . :cool:
Asking to see the present, ffs he has just had a heart attack, do you really think his first thought would be to make sure he keeps hold of the present. I hope she feels bad, but I doubt it like her banshee daughter they both are never at fault.
She might feel bad if she finds his keys, phone and the bag with her present in it, (they're probably still lying where he dropped them). But of course he'll be gone by then so it'll be too late for her to apologise for being an utter cow and not believing him.
How exactly is David a misogynist Nothing you've said in your post is evidence of that, just that Carol and him aren't 100% in sync which is surely the norm in any relationship. I appreciate he has been a womaniser in his time, but so has half the Square IE the males so if that makes him a misogynist then . . . :cool:
Yes a misogynist is someone that mistrusts, mistreats, dislikes and even hates women. David thinking he knows women's minds better than they do is misogynistic, David pushing Nikki into the trash is misogynistic. David's character has always been inherently misogynistic as his mum was a prostitute and he grew up hating her and therefore all women. His misogyny is fundamental to his character. You dont necessarily have to be a 'bad' man to be a misogynist.
You are right to point out that a lot of the males are womanisers, they are also pretty misogynistic...but that is natural as drama is about conflict...wouldnt work if everyone got along and respected/trusted one another lol
Yes a misogynist is someone that mistrusts, mistreats, dislikes and even hates women. David thinking he knows women's minds better than they do is misogynistic, David pushing Nikki into the trash is misogynistic. David's character has always been inherently misogynistic as his mum was a prostitute and he grew up hating her and therefore all women. His misogyny is fundamental to his character. You dont necessarily have to be a 'bad' man to be a misogynist.
You are right to point out that a lot of the males are womanisers, they are also pretty misogynistic...but that is natural as drama is about conflict...wouldnt work if everyone got along and respected/trusted one another lol
I think David's background would certainly be one from which a misogynist could come but I don't agree that him wanting different things to Carol is him being misogynistic but then I don't see what he is / has been doing as knowing her mind but more trying to make her happy and to be fair to him it has worked so far. If Carol was really against it she'd have said so and she hasn't so much so far. Also. I don't remotely see pushing Nikki in the trash as inherently misogynistic, There isn't enough evidence to suggest he is misogynistic and of course he really isn't that different from the other males on the Square to single him out as such.
I do agree that the drama of a soap means that this kind of antagonistic behaviour including cheating and constant misunderstandings and always imagining you know best and constantly making bad judgments is just that: drama and natural in a soap and therefore it's really not that easy to call out one character as misogynistic.
Carol feels she has a right to be the most poorly person in the room.
David with his heart attack was taking away some of the attention she craves.
LOL!
But there's more than a hint of truth in your statement I feel. In Carol's mind if he's seriously ill he should have been sitting there looking at death's door, all feeble and quiet. Instead she was greeted by the sight of him having a bit of a giggle with her daughter's. As she's such a miserable mare it's probably beyond her understanding that someone can still find time for humour even though they're ill/been very ill, she was like a robot who hadn't been programmed with this info and therefore could not comprehend what she was seeing.
I think Carol was annoyed and upset because she thought David had jilted her but was worried when she found out about his heart attack but she walked in on him laughing and joking and got angry because she probably felt he was taking the piss but she still had no right to say she wished he'd died!
If he does die she will regret it for sure!
But surely, if you really, REALLY love someone you'd forget/push to the back of your mind that you'd thought you'd been jilted and all the emotion that involved and just be glad that the man you loved was still alive? Not go into a strop because (in her opinion) he didn't seem ill?
To me it was just another example of Carol's selfishness.
That scene just showed what a irrational gobshite and self-absorbed woman Carol really is. It's all about her wounded pride, it's all about her needs. The man's just had a heart attack for christ's sake, if there's any time to cut him some slack - it's now!
I'm not even David's biggest fan, but did she really try and accuse him of deliberately having a heart attack? How exactly does one go about doing that?
I know the next time I wanna get out of doing any chores at home, I'll just have a heart attack and hope I don't die . There's any number of stunts/excuses David could've pulled to get out of marrying Carol without risking his life. Why would he choose to self-induce a heart attack?
According to Carol by eating himself to death, psychologically you know, he didn't realise what he was doing
I can understand her thinking initially she'd been jilted but when she found out he'd had a heart attack instead you'd think she'd have been relieved but no she reverted to default mode and claimed he'd engineered this heart attack to avoid the alter.
Actually im team David this time, he has fought hard with himself to resist nikki which is way off character for him, particularly as she is doing all the running and flaunting it right in his face, under normal circumstances he would have dived in with both feet and his arse strapped to a board. But as unsettled as he was about committing to carol he fought nikki off and was determined to marry carol.
Of course when she finds out about nikki that will give her reason to have another go at him, rather than praise him for rejecting her advances which carol knows full well goes against Davids grain.
I want to see David blow up at her, give her a few home truths then bin her off, once and for all.
I think David's background would certainly be one from which a misogynist could come but I don't agree that him wanting different things to Carol is him being misogynistic but then I don't see what he is / has been doing as knowing her mind but more trying to make her happy and to be fair to him it has worked so far. If Carol was really against it she'd have said so and she hasn't so much so far. Also. I don't remotely see pushing Nikki in the trash as inherently misogynistic, There isn't enough evidence to suggest he is misogynistic and of course he really isn't that different from the other males on the Square to single him out as such.
I do agree that the drama of a soap means that this kind of antagonistic behaviour including cheating and constant misunderstandings and always imagining you know best and constantly making bad judgments is just that: drama and natural in a soap and therefore it's really not that easy to call out one character as misogynistic.
Totally agree with this.
I always thought that David had relationship issues thanks to his mum, that he might have 'hated' his mum at times but that feeling wasn't transferred onto women as a whole
Comments
Very well put, especially BIB. From the conversation she had with Ian, I felt that's exactly what Carol was doing, settling for happiness. It didn't sound to me like she was particularly in love with David but had found someone she could felt like she could be content enough with. But then David being David always had to go and mess it up and I think that she was lashing out, all her frustrations over the times he let down came out even though she knew after the fact that he hadn't done anything deliberately on this occasion.
To throw his heart attack in his face and make out that he was guilty of something was simply lower than the low. David would be better off without her, she is destined to be a bitter and twisted cow for the rest of her life
Actually im team David this time, he has fought hard with himself to resist nikki which is way off character for him, particularly as she is doing all the running and flaunting it right in his face, under normal circumstances he would have dived in with both feet and his arse strapped to a board. But as unsettled as he was about committing to carol he fought nikki off and was determined to marry carol.
Of course when she finds out about nikki that will give her reason to have another go at him, rather than praise him for rejecting her advances which carol knows full well goes against Davids grain.
I want to see David blow up at her, give her a few home truths then bin her off, once and for all.
It's through Ian she speaks out against David, realising he's a broken and slightly pathetic man with lie after lie after lie and the fact that she had almost just accepted that he'd done a runner - that she would expect that from him.
"With some people it's booze, drugs or ****... With me it's always been David."
Carol knows that she's worse off being with him and they'll no doubt explore that further in tonight's episode.
Yes exactly. David doesnt help Carol. He just doesnt. He doesnt actually make her happy when you look at it. She tells him clearly 'I dont want a fuss' and David cannot take no for an answer. David always thinks he knows better and knows what Carol really wants. Maybe, just maybe, when Carol says she wants a quiet night in...she isnt being a martyr she actually just wants a quiet night in.
David is flash and Carol isnt. Carol wants an idealised version of David BUT he can never be that, despite all his efforts and protestations that he has changed, that he wants her, he doesnt as he doesnt accept what she tells him. Fundamentally they are trying to change one another rather than accept one another.
I think its been clear from the start that whilst they have great chemistry and David can bring the light side out in Carol ultimately he just keeps getting it wrong and does not listen to reason.
David is a misogynist when all is said and done.
Shes an a hole and deserves what she got like seriously who makes themself have a heart attack??
She needs to get a grip, and get off her high horse.
Does she not remember that it was David who helped her through her treatment?
He's supported her for months but when he's ill she can't even be civil to him.
How exactly is David a misogynist
Yes a misogynist is someone that mistrusts, mistreats, dislikes and even hates women. David thinking he knows women's minds better than they do is misogynistic, David pushing Nikki into the trash is misogynistic. David's character has always been inherently misogynistic as his mum was a prostitute and he grew up hating her and therefore all women. His misogyny is fundamental to his character. You dont necessarily have to be a 'bad' man to be a misogynist.
You are right to point out that a lot of the males are womanisers, they are also pretty misogynistic...but that is natural as drama is about conflict...wouldnt work if everyone got along and respected/trusted one another lol
haha maybe he will, i still prefer BUSH PUSH! but trash push is pretty fun too
I think David's background would certainly be one from which a misogynist could come but I don't agree that him wanting different things to Carol is him being misogynistic but then I don't see what he is / has been doing as knowing her mind but more trying to make her happy and to be fair to him it has worked so far. If Carol was really against it she'd have said so and she hasn't so much so far. Also. I don't remotely see pushing Nikki in the trash as inherently misogynistic, There isn't enough evidence to suggest he is misogynistic and of course he really isn't that different from the other males on the Square to single him out as such.
I do agree that the drama of a soap means that this kind of antagonistic behaviour including cheating and constant misunderstandings and always imagining you know best and constantly making bad judgments is just that: drama and natural in a soap and therefore it's really not that easy to call out one character as misogynistic.
LOL!
But there's more than a hint of truth in your statement I feel. In Carol's mind if he's seriously ill he should have been sitting there looking at death's door, all feeble and quiet. Instead she was greeted by the sight of him having a bit of a giggle with her daughter's. As she's such a miserable mare it's probably beyond her understanding that someone can still find time for humour even though they're ill/been very ill, she was like a robot who hadn't been programmed with this info and therefore could not comprehend what she was seeing.
But surely, if you really, REALLY love someone you'd forget/push to the back of your mind that you'd thought you'd been jilted and all the emotion that involved and just be glad that the man you loved was still alive? Not go into a strop because (in her opinion) he didn't seem ill?
To me it was just another example of Carol's selfishness.
According to Carol by eating himself to death, psychologically you know, he didn't realise what he was doing
I've heard it all now!
Agreed. She's reverted to what I remember.
Good post, well said. Agree with this.
Another good point well made.
Totally agree with this.
I always thought that David had relationship issues thanks to his mum, that he might have 'hated' his mum at times but that feeling wasn't transferred onto women as a whole