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  • ThePhotographerThePhotographer Posts: 3,112
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    Gideon? I thought Mr Osborne either changed his name or prefers 'George'. Are you using the Gideon name is a way that is a personal attack?
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    I don't care what name he uses, or what name people call him to take the mick, I'd just like him to be honest about what he does and doesn't pay in tax.
  • bad-beatbad-beat Posts: 1,847
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    Since October 2010 the ComRes polling for ITV news has asked who people trust to lead the country through the current economic situation. The April figures are bad for the coalition:-

    David Cameron’s trust figure is down five to 31% and the do not trust David Cameron increasing six to 53%

    George Osborne’s trust figure is just 21% with 60%, up eight from last month, saying they do not trust the Chancellor on the economy.

    Nick Clegg's economic trust ratings continue to be worse with just 15% saying they would trust and 66% who would not.

    Despite these bad ratings the TwoEds do not appear to be benefiting. Ed Miliband's trust rating is up two percentage points at 18% and Ed Balls's is unchanged at 15%.

    I’m expecting further bad polling news for the coalition during the holiday weekend.

    SOURCE

    So the House is full of people no-one trusts; not exactly a democratic Golden Era...
  • ChizzlefaceChizzleface Posts: 8,221
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    I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it...the economy should not be in the hands of idiots. Certainly it should not be in the hands of political idiots. Much better if it were run by one of those most monstrous of things, a quango. At least then it might be settled, and run according to the economic climate as opposed to political ideology.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    bad-beat wrote: »
    Since October 2010 the ComRes polling for ITV news has asked who people trust to lead the country through the current economic situation. The April figures are bad for the coalition:-

    David Cameron’s trust figure is down five to 31% and the do not trust David Cameron increasing six to 53%

    George Osborne’s trust figure is just 21% with 60%, up eight from last month, saying they do not trust the Chancellor on the economy.

    Nick Clegg's economic trust ratings continue to be worse with just 15% saying they would trust and 66% who would not.

    Despite these bad ratings the TwoEds do not appear to be benefiting. Ed Miliband's trust rating is up two percentage points at 18% and Ed Balls's is unchanged at 15%.

    I’m expecting further bad polling news for the coalition during the holiday weekend.

    SOURCE

    So the House is full of people no-one trusts; not exactly a democratic Golden Era...

    So all this proves is that we, as a nation, don't trust anyone with our money.

    The obvious question is, who would we trust?
  • TelevisionUserTelevisionUser Posts: 41,415
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    bowland37 wrote: »
    FreeLondoner, 7 April 2012 9:07PM

    "Hopefully this will be the start of another really bad week for the Tory Government."

    Actually, all Gideon George Osborne is doing by all those botched tax measures is ruling himself out of the David Cameron succession race and I'm sure that Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is therefore very much enjoying Gideon's current discomfort.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    Actually, all Gideon George Osborne is doing by all those botched tax measures is ruling himself out of the David Cameron succession race and I'm sure that Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson is therefore very much enjoying Gideon's current discomfort.

    Depending on how long Cameron sticks around for, I can't see Boris wanting to be Conservative leader even if they get him a safe seat in 2015 (assuming he loses the mayoral election).
  • ChizzlefaceChizzleface Posts: 8,221
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    Cryolemon wrote: »
    Depending on how long Cameron sticks around for, I can't see Boris wanting to be Conservative leader even if they get him a safe seat in 2015 (assuming he loses the mayoral election).

    Even if he wants to be leader, I can't see him winning enough votes from Conservative members to gain the leadership - he's not really political material, and he'd make the party even more of a laughing stock than it is now.

    When Cameron goes in 2015 (I'm pretty certain he will go if and when the Tories lose the election) I think we might see another leadership bid from Ken Clarke - might finally be seen as the safe pair of hands the Tories need. That's if he fancies sticking around, he's getting on a bit now is our Ken, and the Lords might look more appealing.
  • ThePhotographerThePhotographer Posts: 3,112
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    If the rich want to get involved with such projects then brilliant. They should not be taxed on that in any way shape or form. Bad from George Osborne.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    When Cameron goes in 2015 (I'm pretty certain he will go if and when the Tories lose the election) I think we might see another leadership bid from Ken Clarke - might finally be seen as the safe pair of hands the Tories need. That's if he fancies sticking around, he's getting on a bit now is our Ken, and the Lords might look more appealing.

    I can see Clarke retiring. Maybe Hague will have another go. I'm struggling to think of anyone else, since 2015 is a bit too early for the "next generation" (Chloe Smith, Zac Goldsmith, etc), but people like Clarke might be seen as too old.

    Of course if the Tories win in '15, then we can have the same discussion about Labour lol (I can see that being between Yvette Cooper and someone from the left, presumably McDonnell or Abbott again, unless someone like Harman or Angela Eagle stands. Chuka Umuna seems a popular choice, but I think 2015 is too soon).

    And, so as not to leave them out, the Lib Dems will be interesting. Clegg will go in any scenario that isn't the status quo after '15 imho. My choice for LD leader would be either Simon Hughes or Jo Swinson, but Hughes has too much personal baggage, and Swinson will probably lose her seat.
  • jjnejjne Posts: 6,580
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    Assuming you're right about the Tories losing the next election, Clarke will not be running. He'll be 80 years old in 2020; far, far too old to be running the country -- 85 years old by the time he finishes his term. With the best will in the world, he may not even be alive by then,
  • ChizzlefaceChizzleface Posts: 8,221
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    Cryolemon wrote: »
    I can see Clarke retiring. Maybe Hague will have another go. I'm struggling to think of anyone else, since 2015 is a bit too early for the "next generation" (Chloe Smith, Zac Goldsmith, etc), but people like Clarke might be seen as too old.

    Of course if the Tories win in '15, then we can have the same discussion about Labour lol (I can see that being between Yvette Cooper and someone from the left, presumably McDonnell or Abbott again, unless someone like Harman or Angela Eagle stands. Chuka Umuna seems a popular choice, but I think 2015 is too soon).

    And, so as not to leave them out, the Lib Dems will be interesting. Clegg will go in any scenario that isn't the status quo after '15 imho. My choice for LD leader would be either Simon Hughes or Jo Swinson, but Hughes has too much personal baggage, and Swinson will probably lose her seat.

    If Labour don't win the next election, I think we might see the man who should be leading the party right now look to take his rightful place - David Miliband. Every time he's spoken in the House he has been intelligent, cutting and almost always right with the things he has said, and it still disappoints me that this weak Government isn't being put to the sword by DMil, instead having to cope with EMil.

    Wrong brother in charge!

    The Tories do face a problem if they lose the election though, there really is no viable candidate for right now, and they'd never have Hague back because he's not a strong enough leader. Osborne would have been the successor if he hadn't shown himself to be incompetent at both economics and policy planning.
  • crazychris12crazychris12 Posts: 26,254
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    Cryolemon wrote: »

    Of course if the Tories win in '15, then we can have the same discussion about Labour lol (I can see that being between Yvette Cooper and someone from the left, presumably McDonnell or Abbott again, unless someone like Harman or Angela Eagle stands. Chuka Umuna seems a popular choice, but I think 2015 is too soon).

    .

    If Tories win in 2015 then I see David Miliband becoming Labour leader.

    EDIT. Posted before I read the post directly above this. :D
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    If Labour don't win the next election, I think we might see the man who should be leading the party right now look to take his rightful place - David Miliband. Every time he's spoken in the House he has been intelligent, cutting and almost always right with the things he has said, and it still disappoints me that this weak Government isn't being put to the sword by DMil, instead having to cope with EMil.

    Wrong brother in charge! .

    Possibly, but I'm not sure whether David Miliband will want to stand, since he would, naturally, be constantly compared to his brother. I think a lot would depend who else was in the race. Were it going to be simply Cooper vs McDonnell (or something similar) he might well just support Cooper. If there were a number of challengers he might join in.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,718
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    Even if he wants to be leader, I can't see him winning enough votes from Conservative members to gain the leadership - he's not really political material, and he'd make the party even more of a laughing stock than it is now.

    You are right in saying that Boris will never become PM or even Conservative leader, to say that the Conservatives are a laughing stock is questionable to say the least? Care to explain why?
    When Cameron goes in 2015 (I'm pretty certain he will go if and when the Tories lose the election) I think we might see another leadership bid from Ken Clarke - might finally be seen as the safe pair of hands the Tories need. That's if he fancies sticking around, he's getting on a bit now is our Ken, and the Lords might look more appealing.

    When the Tories lose? Bar catastrophe, this would only happen if Labour get rid of Ed and Ed.

    Ken Clarke will never when a leadership election, most normal members don't like him at all.
  • ChizzlefaceChizzleface Posts: 8,221
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    Jack1 wrote: »
    You are right in saying that Boris will never become PM or even Conservative leader, to say that the Conservatives are a laughing stock is questionable to say the least? Care to explain why?

    Well they've performed so many u-turns over so many different issues that I'm not sure even they know which way they're pointing right now - and the sheer amount of botched policy is staggering. Cameron isn't a details man, and it shows - badly. Nobody is really able to take a man who can't be bothered to fill in the fine print seriously, Cameron is making the Tories as much of a laughing stock as they were in the early 90s.
    When the Tories lose? Bar catastrophe, this would only happen if Labour get rid of Ed and Ed.

    Care to place a gentleman's wager on that? Given that most opinion polls (and yes, I know they're not always the most reliable indicator) are already pointing towards a Tory defeat if trends continue...
    Ken Clarke will never when a leadership election, most normal members don't like him at all.

    Which is a shame, because he's the one Tory that I trust, and I dare say the one Tory that most people in the Labour party trust as well. But his age is against him, and for that reason he'll move to the Lords after the next election.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,718
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    Cryolemon wrote: »
    Possibly, but I'm not sure whether David Miliband will want to stand, since he would, naturally, be constantly compared to his brother. I think a lot would depend who else was in the race. Were it going to be simply Cooper vs McDonnell (or something similar) he might well just support Cooper. If there were a number of challengers he might join in.

    If Labour lose, in 2015, and I expect they will, Yvette Cooper, although would likely run, would be a disaster for Labour and would make them completely unelectable. I suspect that Chuka Umuna would probably win at that point. Before 2015 it will most likely be David, if Ed left.
  • allafixallafix Posts: 20,687
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    Even if he wants to be leader, I can't see him winning enough votes from Conservative members to gain the leadership - he's not really political material, and he'd make the party even more of a laughing stock than it is now.

    When Cameron goes in 2015 (I'm pretty certain he will go if and when the Tories lose the election) I think we might see another leadership bid from Ken Clarke - might finally be seen as the safe pair of hands the Tories need. That's if he fancies sticking around, he's getting on a bit now is our Ken, and the Lords might look more appealing.
    Of course Boris wants to be conservative party leader. Everybody thought he'd make a mess of London, but he's done OK and proved quite popular. I think he's quite a sharp politician beneath the buffoon exterior.

    Ken Clarke is 71. TBH I was quite surprised to see him brought back into the cabinet. He'll be 74 in 2015 and he'll be no more popular with the Conservative right wing MPs than he is now. He has zero chance of winning, even if he wasn't too old. These days anyone over 45 is seen as a bit long in the tooth to be leadership material.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,718
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    Well they've performed so many u-turns over so many different issues that I'm not sure even they know which way they're pointing right now - and the sheer amount of botched policy is staggering. Cameron isn't a details man, and it shows - badly. Nobody is really able to take a man who can't be bothered to fill in the fine print seriously, Cameron is making the Tories as much of a laughing stock as they were in the early 90s.

    This is part of being a coalition and the tough economic times we live in, although I don't believe the public see Cameron as someone who is a flip flopper more someone who is willing to change with public opinion.

    I also suspect that some of his PR strategy is to exaggerate some of his reforms and then when they come out they seem less harsh and thus not as bad as they would have seemed if he had initially released them. That's just a guess though.

    I don't think he is someone who is not concerned with details, and to say that is a return to the nineties simply isn't true. The party was in complete disarray then. It isn't like that now.

    Care to place a gentleman's wager on that? Given that most opinion polls (and yes, I know they're not always the most reliable indicator) are already pointing towards a Tory defeat if trends continue...

    Yes, I'm confident the Conservatives will win as long as Ed stays as leader. Leads in polls would shrink if a GE was called. Even so its to far from and election to make judgement on polls.
    Which is a shame, because he's the one Tory that I trust, and I dare say the one Tory that most people in the Labour party trust as well. But his age is against him, and for that reason he'll move to the Lords after the next election.

    He is too old, even so his position on Europe would cause huge rafts in the party making the Conservatives unelectable.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    Jack1 wrote: »
    If Labour lose, in 2015, and I expect they will, Yvette Cooper, although would likely run, would be a disaster for Labour and would make them completely unelectable. I suspect that Chuka Umuna would probably win at that point. Before 2015 it will most likely be David, if Ed left.

    I personally think 2015 is going to be too early for Umuna.

    Harriet Harman could probably win a leadership elction, but 1) I don't think she wants it and 2) she'd be even worse than Cooper in terms of electablility.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8,718
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    Cryolemon wrote: »
    I personally think 2015 is going to be too early for Umuna.

    Harriet Harman could probably win a leadership elction, but 1) I don't think she wants it and 2) she'd be even worse than Cooper in terms of electablility.

    Too early in terms of electability or in terms of actual experience aka able to do the job?

    Remember DC was elected in 2001 as an MP before becoming leader in 2005.

    On your second point I agree about electability.
  • CryolemonCryolemon Posts: 8,670
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    Jack1 wrote: »
    Too early in terms of electability or in terms of actual experience aka able to do the job?

    Remember DC was elected in 2001 as an MP before becoming leader in 2005.

    Both, to some extent. He's probably just about electable (certainly more than Cooper, Harman, McDonnell or Abbott lol) On experience, I'll admit I've not seen too much of him, but he doesn't seem to have quite the same charisma Cameron did / does. You need that to rise quickly in any party.

    The only other obvious choice as next Labour leader to me is Angela Eagle, and she might have the same electability issues as Cooper.
  • hustedhusted Posts: 5,287
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    Cryolemon wrote: »
    Both, to some extent. He's probably just about electable (certainly more than Cooper, Harman, McDonnell or Abbott lol) On experience, I'll admit I've not seen too much of him, but he doesn't seem to have quite the same charisma Cameron did / does. You need that to rise quickly in any party.

    The only other obvious choice as next Labour leader to me is Angela Eagle, and she might have the same electability issues as Cooper.

    Big problem with Cooper is her husband. Otherwise I think she's ok.

    Hilary Benn for me. Trustworthy solid chap with a very fine middle name (Wedgwood). Or Caroline Flint who has more warmth than Cooper,.

    For Tory leader, I respect both David Davis and Zac Goldsmith. Boris has no chance. It's only the backroom people who work for him that keep him from being a complete buffoon.
  • diablodiablo Posts: 8,300
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    I'd imagine that the next election will once again return no absolute winner and Cameron may be able to form another government. If not then Hague must be their best bet for a new leader. He's not quite as posh and has become more sensible over the last few years.

    My personal choice for next PM would be Alistair Darling, a sensible pragmatic man who steered the country through the economic turmoil better than anyone else could. Though unfortunately his reputation is soiled by association with Mr Brown. And he wouldn't take the job anyway I fear.

    Please not David Miliband - we'don't deserve another 'semi-Blairite'
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