There seems to be a lot of criticism going wengers way recently but the fact is that we don't know who's fault arsenals position is ?
Is it Wengers because he has the money to strengthen but refuses to ?
Or is it the board not giving him the money to strengthen the way Arsenal really need to ?
I don't think it would be a massive task getting the top notch players to Arsenal they have a hell of a lot going for them, regular CL football, based in one of the worlds premier cities, one of the highest attended clubs in the world with a fantastic stadium, what more could a player want ?
They really need to splash the cash for once and bring in the top drawer players, next seasons pl money plus a massive sponsorship starting next season will ensure they have more money than ever, but will they spend it, and if they are willing to spend it who will come if they don't make the CL ?
To my mind the players look unhappy. Wilshere, who was undoubtedly the best Arsenal player yesterday, looked the picture of misery afterwards.
They look nervous and uncomfortable a lot of the time.
In spite of what Wilshere said afterwards about performance being down to the players and not Wenger, thats surely only part of the story.
My own theory is that Wenger has the players in a constant state of nerves. You only have to watch Wenger's behaviour in public and listen to his irrational public statements to guess at what effect it might have on his players.
The manager must be held responsible for the mood of his players if its affecting their playing ability. A good manager would never let them get into a perpetual state of nerves over the fear of not winning.
A lack of motivation maybe or as Wenger has been prone to in the past trying to look for somebody else to blame rather than take responability?
He probably is unfortunate Chelsea and to more of an extent as they were no-where before the money men came in Man City have been able to spend millions without any restrictions but as I said fans do pay good money and there isn't an excuse for poor performances or lack of effort.
It is if you can't sign the players you want to sort it, I can't imagine that Wenger is truly happy with what he has.
He probably isn't. But the players he has are ones he's chosen over time and he should be able to get them to stop making some of the mistakes they have been.
It is if you can't sign the players you want to sort it, I can't imagine that Wenger is truly happy with what he has.
Sorry, but these are pretty decent players, who show all the signs of not having properly thought out drills or plans.
If defense isn't really Wenger's thing, he should properly delegate that to someone to spend a lot of time drilling and redrilling the team re corners, free kicks and other situations. But I hear that he is a poor delegater.
Many of the goals Arsenal concede are quite unacceptable.
He probably isn't. But the players he has are ones he's chosen over time and he should be able to get them to stop making some of the mistakes they have been.
Sorry, but these are pretty decent players, who show all the signs of not having properly thought out drills or plans.
If defense isn't really Wenger's thing, he should properly delegate that to someone to spend a lot of time drilling and redrilling the team re corners, free kicks and other situations. But I hear that he is a poor delegater.
Many of the goals Arsenal concede are quite unacceptable.
I'm not saying either of you are wrong, I'm saying we don't know what is going on behind closed doors at arsenal, I've heard through the grapevine that arsene has wanted players before but has been stuck with the wage structure and what clubs want for players.
As regards the players, they may be pretty decent but if they aren't top level then they aren't top level no matter how much you drill them or even just not suited in style to play with each other which after all is the difference between great players and a great team.
Wenger's brief is to get Arsenal into the top 4 & he has done that for 15 seasons in a row & I'm willing to bet he'll do it again.
I don't think the Bayern result has any real bearing on his future, as Bayern are an excellent side & Arsenal, with respect to them, are considered to be one of the weaker sides currently left, so it can't be a surprise that they were largely outclassed.
Who would you get to replace Wenger? perhaps a new manager may be the answer..it can work but usually only short term, then it goes back to the same situation.
Maybe it is the managers tactics that are wrong, or maybe it is just that the players come up a little bit short. Bayern are a top class side though.
The main problem seems to be money, getting top level players cost. You may be able to agree the transfer fee then comes the wages, which Arsenal either refuse to pay or cannot afford. This is out of Wenger's hands and is a board matter.
Arsene won't walk & the board won't sack him. So its down to fan pressure. Historically Arsenal fans have not been the most passionate. If they organise & make their feelings known things can change. But stay divided in what they want & passive nothing will change.
I think the real problem is at boardroom level. Wenger has proved his merit, we've won absolutely nothing since Kroenke arrived on the scene. The more shares he buys, the worse we get!
I think if Arsenal grab 4th place this season, which is more than possible then he'll stay. If they miss out it will become interesting!
Is that not part of the problem, though?
Arsenal are consistently finishing in the top four, but not getting anywhere close to challenging for the League title, and when they get into the top four and qualify for the Champions League, they are nowhere near good enough to realistically challenge for that competition, either.
As long as they keep getting into the top four and that is their sole aim, nothing will really change, which is the fault of the way the club is run as a whole and not just Wenger himself. It's a combination of the mentality of the board downwards and the financial structure - do, for example, Man United, Man City and Chelsea set out every season thinking "we're going for the top four"?. No, they set out to win the title. They also have ambitions to win the Champions League, not just get there.
Now, I'm not an Arsenal fan, but from what I hear from a significant section of their supporters is they don't particularly care about the fact the club is financially well run if it means they're not going to win anything. The fans are not on the same wavelength as the board, and possibly also Wenger, so maybe it is time for a shake-up.
Arsenal are consistently finishing in the top four, but not getting anywhere close to challenging for the League title, and when they get into the top four and qualify for the Champions League, they are nowhere near good enough to realistically challenge for that competition, either.
As long as they keep getting into the top four and that is their sole aim, nothing will really change, which is the fault of the way the club is run as a whole and not just Wenger himself. It's a combination of the mentality of the board downwards and the financial structure - do, for example, Man United, Man City and Chelsea set out every season thinking "we're going for the top four"?. No, they set out to win the title. They also have ambitions to win the Champions League, not just get there.
Now, I'm not an Arsenal fan, but from what I hear from a significant section of their supporters is they don't particularly care about the fact the club is financially well run if it means they're not going to win anything. The fans are not on the same wavelength as the board, and possibly also Wenger, so maybe it is time for a shake-up.
I'd say it's pretty much the whole problem. As long as Wenger delivers the 4th place trophy his job will be 100% safe no matter what happens in all the other competitions. The money keeps coming in, they can attract big enough players to stay in that level at they tend to make enough profit on selling their better players that there is probably enough extra cash around the place for them to buy nice curtains or something.
Something needs to change if they want to get back to competing seriously for actual trophies - the question is though, do the board want to actually change?
The main problem seems to be money, getting top level players cost. You may be able to agree the transfer fee then comes the wages, which Arsenal either refuse to pay or cannot afford. This is out of Wenger's hands and is a board matter.
Just to repeat from another thread; Wenger pays £1 million a week more in wages than Tottenham - £50 million a year.
Who would you get to replace Wenger? perhaps a new manager may be the answer..it can work but usually only short term, then it goes back to the same situation.
Maybe it is the managers tactics that are wrong, or maybe it is just that the players come up a little bit short. Bayern are a top class side though.
The main problem seems to be money, getting top level players cost. You may be able to agree the transfer fee then comes the wages, which Arsenal either refuse to pay or cannot afford. This is out of Wenger's hands and is a board matter.
I'd die laughing if they sacked Wenger , installed Moyse who sorts out the defence but they play dire football , occasional 1:0's to the Ar -sen-al , the team lurks around mid-table and the crowds vote with their feet forcing the board to beg Wenger to go back
I think, to an extent, Wenger got found out the moment that Arsenal's prized possessions started leaving the club. He couldn't replace them (or, at least, get close to replacing them) and put a heavy emphasis of trust into mediocre players - most of which, to me anyways, come across as being lightweight.
Their opponents last night, Bayern Munich, lost in a few finals last season. Did they decide to stick with the 'we are making profit so everything is all good' line? Nope - they have learnt from their errors. They brought in Dante, Javi Martinez, Shaqiri and Mandžukić. Jupp Heynckes, their current manager, apparently didn't know he was getting the heave-ho, and will be replaced by Pep Guardiola at the end of the season. No messing about.
I think, to an extent, Wenger got found out the moment that Arsenal's prized possessions started leaving the club. He couldn't replace them (or, at least, get close to replacing them) and put a heavy emphasis of trust into mediocre players - most of which, to me anyways, come across as being lightweight.
Their opponents last night, Bayern Munich, lost in a few finals last season. Did they decide to stick with the 'we are making profit so everything is all good' line? Nope - they have learnt from their errors. They brought in Dante, Javi Martinez, Shaqiri and Mandžukić. Jupp Heynckes, their current manager, apparently didn't know he was getting the heave-ho, and will be replaced by Pep Guardiola at the end of the season. No messing about.
Heynckes, as far as I recall was always leaving Bayern at the end of the season because he was retiring from football mangement; so he wasn't fired.
Heynckes, as far as I recall was always leaving Bayern at the end of the season because he was retiring from football mangement; so he wasn't fired.
Hmm - depends who you listen to. From ESPN ...
When the Guardiola appointment was announced in January, Bayern officials revealed that Heynckes would be retiring at the end of the season. However, the German has insisted that decision will be made by him.
It was also made clear on the Revista de La Liga show that Heynckes was surprised back in January.
In recent days he has hinted that he won't be retiring. It will be interesting to see what he does.
Comments
Is it Wengers because he has the money to strengthen but refuses to ?
Or is it the board not giving him the money to strengthen the way Arsenal really need to ?
I don't think it would be a massive task getting the top notch players to Arsenal they have a hell of a lot going for them, regular CL football, based in one of the worlds premier cities, one of the highest attended clubs in the world with a fantastic stadium, what more could a player want ?
They really need to splash the cash for once and bring in the top drawer players, next seasons pl money plus a massive sponsorship starting next season will ensure they have more money than ever, but will they spend it, and if they are willing to spend it who will come if they don't make the CL ?
They look nervous and uncomfortable a lot of the time.
In spite of what Wilshere said afterwards about performance being down to the players and not Wenger, thats surely only part of the story.
My own theory is that Wenger has the players in a constant state of nerves. You only have to watch Wenger's behaviour in public and listen to his irrational public statements to guess at what effect it might have on his players.
The manager must be held responsible for the mood of his players if its affecting their playing ability. A good manager would never let them get into a perpetual state of nerves over the fear of not winning.
He probably is unfortunate Chelsea and to more of an extent as they were no-where before the money men came in Man City have been able to spend millions without any restrictions but as I said fans do pay good money and there isn't an excuse for poor performances or lack of effort.
It is if you can't sign the players you want to sort it, I can't imagine that Wenger is truly happy with what he has.
He probably isn't. But the players he has are ones he's chosen over time and he should be able to get them to stop making some of the mistakes they have been.
Sorry, but these are pretty decent players, who show all the signs of not having properly thought out drills or plans.
If defense isn't really Wenger's thing, he should properly delegate that to someone to spend a lot of time drilling and redrilling the team re corners, free kicks and other situations. But I hear that he is a poor delegater.
Many of the goals Arsenal concede are quite unacceptable.
As regards the players, they may be pretty decent but if they aren't top level then they aren't top level no matter how much you drill them or even just not suited in style to play with each other which after all is the difference between great players and a great team.
I don't think the Bayern result has any real bearing on his future, as Bayern are an excellent side & Arsenal, with respect to them, are considered to be one of the weaker sides currently left, so it can't be a surprise that they were largely outclassed.
Maybe it is the managers tactics that are wrong, or maybe it is just that the players come up a little bit short. Bayern are a top class side though.
The main problem seems to be money, getting top level players cost. You may be able to agree the transfer fee then comes the wages, which Arsenal either refuse to pay or cannot afford. This is out of Wenger's hands and is a board matter.
Absolutely agree 100%.
Many of our games have been exciting white knuckle ride games.
For all the wrong reasons.:o:D
Is that not part of the problem, though?
Arsenal are consistently finishing in the top four, but not getting anywhere close to challenging for the League title, and when they get into the top four and qualify for the Champions League, they are nowhere near good enough to realistically challenge for that competition, either.
As long as they keep getting into the top four and that is their sole aim, nothing will really change, which is the fault of the way the club is run as a whole and not just Wenger himself. It's a combination of the mentality of the board downwards and the financial structure - do, for example, Man United, Man City and Chelsea set out every season thinking "we're going for the top four"?. No, they set out to win the title. They also have ambitions to win the Champions League, not just get there.
Now, I'm not an Arsenal fan, but from what I hear from a significant section of their supporters is they don't particularly care about the fact the club is financially well run if it means they're not going to win anything. The fans are not on the same wavelength as the board, and possibly also Wenger, so maybe it is time for a shake-up.
Thought it was Steve Bould's area ?
I'd say it's pretty much the whole problem. As long as Wenger delivers the 4th place trophy his job will be 100% safe no matter what happens in all the other competitions. The money keeps coming in, they can attract big enough players to stay in that level at they tend to make enough profit on selling their better players that there is probably enough extra cash around the place for them to buy nice curtains or something.
Something needs to change if they want to get back to competing seriously for actual trophies - the question is though, do the board want to actually change?
That could buy some player. Every year.
I'd die laughing if they sacked Wenger , installed Moyse who sorts out the defence but they play dire football , occasional 1:0's to the Ar -sen-al , the team lurks around mid-table and the crowds vote with their feet forcing the board to beg Wenger to go back
Their opponents last night, Bayern Munich, lost in a few finals last season. Did they decide to stick with the 'we are making profit so everything is all good' line? Nope - they have learnt from their errors. They brought in Dante, Javi Martinez, Shaqiri and Mandžukić. Jupp Heynckes, their current manager, apparently didn't know he was getting the heave-ho, and will be replaced by Pep Guardiola at the end of the season. No messing about.
Heynckes, as far as I recall was always leaving Bayern at the end of the season because he was retiring from football mangement; so he wasn't fired.
Hmm - depends who you listen to. From ESPN ...
It was also made clear on the Revista de La Liga show that Heynckes was surprised back in January.
In recent days he has hinted that he won't be retiring. It will be interesting to see what he does.