I do feel kind of sorry for Kevin in that he's been in the final four times and never won, but I also think it's definitely time he get a duffer. It doesn't even need to be a duffer of the calibre of Ann Widdecombe, Jerry Hall, Nancy Dell'Olio or Edwina Currie, none of whom were ever going to become dancers by any stretch of the imagination. I'd actually rather see Kevin with someone a little better, like Lesley Joseph, and then we can see if he can manage to nurture his partner up to around the halfway mark.
I wouldn't begrudge Karen a good partner because, as you said, she's had her fair share of duffers with Dave from the Hairy Bikers and Jeremy Vine. Equally, I don't begrudge Joanne getting Ore because she did try her best with Scott Mills. Kevin walked in and got a contender straight away and has never had a duffer - he hasn't earned his stripes, so to speak.
Every other professional has earned their stripes in some way (whether that being winning in the first year and then getting a duffer) or whether, like Oti, getting given a duffer in their first year and then a contender.
Neither Artem or Pasha earned their stripes in this way, so why should Kevin. Pasha made three finals, won the third. Artem made two finals and won his first. I would say that Kara, Kimberley and Natalie were ringers of a sort that only Frankie and Louise near in terms of experience. Louise is more comparable with Holly, another of Artem's.
I understand that a pro, who irritates getting to four finals in as many years is 'challenging' for viewers who dislike but trying to argue he is getting better treatment with his portion of celebs does not wash.
Neither Artem or Pasha earned their stripes in this way, so why should Kevin. Pasha made three finals, won the third. Artem made two finals and won his first. I would say that Kara, Kimberley and Natalie were ringers of a sort that only Frankie and Louise near in terms of experience. Louise is more comparable with Holly, another of Artem's.
I understand that a pro, who irritates getting to four finals in as many years is 'challenging' for viewers who dislike but trying to argue he is getting better treatment with his portion of celebs does not wash.
Artem's four years included Holly, who was good but couldn't really be arsed, and Fern. Pasha had Rachel in his third year. Kevin, by contrast, has had three clear runs at the final and one who got there with a little forcing from the judges. Nobody else has made more than three finals, and nobody's ever been in more than two finals consecutively. I don't feel as strongly against Kevin as some people do, but I think he's definitely become hugely overexposed and his partnership with Kellie was a big mistake.
I don't see why Kev should stop his kick at the beginning - it is literally a moment at the start of a show
As for comments of his actions in the Clauditorium Kevin is more often than not at the back - he is one of the least pros front and centre.
Despite what is said on here besides Frankie Kevin has not had an out and out contender just reasonably able partners so to get the like of Susannah and Louise to final was an accomplishment in itself - he was never going to win agaiinst Danny/ore with Louise she just did not express the dance enough, last year Jay was a runnaway winner from a few weeks in
I hope he does get a less able celeb next year if only to stop the moans on social media
Mwah, he likely went into the final with Susannah and Louise in the lead on audience votes. So, on both those occasions he was defeated at the final hurdle.
Artem's four years included Holly, who was good but couldn't really be arsed, and Fern. Pasha had Rachel in his third year. Kevin, by contrast, has had three clear runs at the final and one who got there with a little forcing from the judges. Nobody else has made more than three finals, and nobody's ever been in more than two finals consecutively. I don't feel as strongly against Kevin as some people do, but I think he's definitely become hugely overexposed and his partnership with Kellie was a big mistake.
As you say, at least three of his four finals were earned, in that he got there without even being in the dance-off, when he certainly could have been for both Susanna and Louise. With Kellie he was in the d-o exactly as often as Ore this year. I really don't see how it's reasonable to blame him or see it as problematic, especially as he appears to be generally popular. This forum seems to have problems with the idea that most viewers and voters are interested in the celebs, rather than the pros. (I admit that I do not believe at all in the 'pro vote', whether positive or negative - at best there might be a 'partnership' vote.)
Artem's four years included Holly, who was good but couldn't really be arsed, and Fern. Pasha had Rachel in his third year. Kevin, by contrast, has had three clear runs at the final and one who got there with a little forcing from the judges. Nobody else has made more than three finals, and nobody's ever been in more than two finals consecutively. I don't feel as strongly against Kevin as some people do, but I think he's definitely become hugely overexposed and his partnership with Kellie was a big mistake.
I hadn't forgotten who the other partners of Artem and Pasha were or their talent levels. My post was in response to a pattern suggested by the other poster of other pros' fortunes on Strictly, which is not true for Artem or Pasha and might not be true for others but they were the two names that came to my mind.
Not at all. Basing it in the examples of Artem, Pasha, Aljiaz and potentially Govanni (who has just has his second potential contender in a row), instead of just Frankie, he has to make sure he accumulates three or four partners in the 25-35 age range who are attractive and dance well (whether they could already dance well doesn't matter that much, given Jill, Alesha, Kara and Caroline). This gives him the chance of one of them seeing off the other 25-35 year old opponents, male and female. But people from Hollyoaks don't count, as apparently they can't win (see Ali, Ricky, Ashley, Danny).
Kevin certainly gets the most out of his partners dancewise. Maybe next time he will go all the way?
I doubt it, unless he has someone who is totally compatible with his style there is always a dissonance. When they match the annoyance factor escalates. His partners are loved by the public, just not quite enough, so that last final hurdle becomes a let down because the casual final only voters do not invest in the partnership.
I thought he had a bit of an 'Erin' moment in the final this time. He did well to get there, but seemed to make some odd decisions in his choreography.
He has had a lot of nastiness chucked at him this entire series. I feel sorry for him, he hadn't really stood a chance of winning this year. If the nasty comments haven't been aimed at him they have been aimed at Louise..
I hope for his sake he gets a duff partner next year and does wonders with her.
You only have to count the anti Clinton threads this year to see why he didn't win. I know his sister did but, she didn't come in for the amount of unkindness Kevin did from certain posters.
Excellent, so we can blame Trump for Kevin losing too.
I agree slightly less exposure wouldn't do Kevin any harm for a year or so. Familiarity breeds contempt. But I think there's a limit to how much Kevin can control how he comes across, because it feels as though the narrative of the show generally has become Mr & Mrs...Kevin & Karen and Aljaz and Janette seem to be the heart of the show now, judged by how much they're featured on ITT. And that's at the door of the producers, not Kevin himself.
I doubt it, unless he has someone who is totally compatible with his style there is always a dissonance. When they match the annoyance factor escalates. His partners are loved by the public, just not quite enough, so that last final hurdle becomes a let down because the casual final only voters do not invest in the partnership.
It's very often a difficult balance - between being lively enough to be interesting and yet quiet enough not to be annoying. Kevin hasn't found the partner with that balance yet and I don't think Susannah was talented enough to be a winner and Kellie although she was wasn't as good as Jay or Georgia that said I think Abbey was very marmite she just did a better showdance than Sophie and wasn't an obvious ringer like Natalie. Louise was too ringery and not quite passionate enough in her dancers. A lot of people outside of this forum liked her especially older viewers I think but at the end of the day she wasn't as good as Danny or as engaging or as much of a journeyman as Ore and that cost her in the end - however much of a journeyman he wasnt' Ore wasn't someone with obvious previous dance experience like Louise and Danny and that may have counted for something in the end possibly helped by Len's advocacy.
I think the majority of people in the wider world out there beyond this forum like Kevin (I don't think he's 'box office poison' like James Jordan - whom they put with a variety of different women who were all good and who mostly got voted out earlier than they should have been although Alex Jones probably got to about where and possibly slightly beyond her ablitity level - was) and it's just they prefered Ore in the end. In the end Kevin had an uphill task get Louise to put her all into her dances - he certainly tried everything he could to make that happen or make it appear she had and it's hard to think of anyone other than Alijaz (who seems good with the quiet ones but is probably too tall for Louise and in any case was the only one tall enough for Daisy) who might have done better. This year he failed IMO because of her and not him.
So it may be something as simple as he hasn't had found the right girl yet. It took Pasha three serious goes to find the right one and with one utter failure that netted him a nice smart girlfriend in pretty sweet compensation on the way. A lot depends on what people are looking for that year.
Kev wants to win rather then just reach the final, right?
So, he needs a partner with these WINNING attributes.........
1.She needs to be over 30, rather than over 40. With at least two kids. Young AND SASSY enough to get the 18 year old blokes vote, but old enough to get the momsy vote.
2.She needs to be able to smile at all times on camera. Off camera she can be as nasty as ****!
3.She needs to be able to cry at the drop of a hat, but also punch the air incessantly (like kev) when they get through to the final. As they will, don't worry.
4.She needs to show compassion to losing dance-off rivals...even if she would really like to kill them off screen just to get through to the next week.
5.She needs to work for the BBC....this is NOT compulsory, but it does help...A LOT.
6.She needs to say many many times that she' loves Kev'....even if she would really prefer to dance with ANY of the others (especially Gorka or AJ).
7.She needs to be comfortable wearing high heels......but not care about heel leads....Len is gone next year and nobody else cares about them.
8.She needs to know or have worked with one of the judges.....preferably head honcho Darcey...in the recent past. Again NOT compulsory, but....
9.She needs to be a 'non dancer'...even if she ISN'T REALLY, and did a Comic Relief dance a few years ago.....the public won't be arsed to look for that on YT anyway.
And, finally, 10. She needs NOT to have any gymnastic tendencies, kev....the judges simply do NOT like that....(golden boy louis does NOT count).
It's very often a difficult balance - between being lively enough to be interesting and yet quiet enough not to be annoying. Kevin hasn't found the partner with that balance yet and I don't think Susannah was talented enough to be a winner and Kellie although she was wasn't as good as Jay or Georgia that said I think Abbey was very marmite she just did a better showdance than Sophie and wasn't an obvious ringer like Natalie. Louise was too ringery and not quite passionate enough in her dancers. A lot of people outside of this forum liked her especially older viewers I think but at the end of the day she wasn't as good as Danny or as engaging or as much of a journeyman as Ore and that cost her in the end - however much of a journeyman he wasnt' Ore wasn't someone with obvious previous dance experience like Louise and Danny and that may have counted for something in the end possibly helped by Len's advocacy.
I think the majority of people in the wider world out there beyond this forum like Kevin (I don't think he's 'box office poison' like James Jordan - whom they put with a variety of different women who were all good and who mostly got voted out earlier than they should have been although Alex Jones probably got to about where and possibly slightly beyond her ablitity level - was) and it's just they prefered Ore in the end. In the end Kevin had an uphill task get Louise to put her all into her dances - he certainly tried everything he could to make that happen or make it appear she had and it's hard to think of anyone other than Alijaz (who seems good with the quiet ones but is probably too tall for Louise and in any case was the only one tall enough for Daisy) who might have done better. This year he failed IMO because of her and not him.
So it may be something as simple as he hasn't had found the right girl yet. It took Pasha three serious goes to find the right one and with one utter failure that netted him a nice smart girlfriend in pretty sweet compensation on the way. A lot depends on what people are looking for that year.
I am sure one year he will get the perfect partner, just a break of a year or so would be great so that other male professionals can grab some limelight.
Kev wants to win rather then just reach the final, right?
So, he needs a partner with these WINNING attributes.........
1.She needs to be over 30, rather than over 40. With at least two kids. Young AND SASSY enough to get the 18 year old blokes vote, but old enough to get the momsy vote.
2.She needs to be able to smile at all times on camera. Off camera she can be as nasty as ****!
3.She needs to be able to cry at the drop of a hat, but also punch the air incessantly (like kev) when they get through to the final. As they will, don't worry.
4.She needs to show compassion to losing dance-off rivals...even if she would really like to kill them off screen just to get through to the next week.
5.She needs to work for the BBC....this is NOT compulsory, but it does help...A LOT.
6.She needs to say many many times that she' loves Kev'....even if she would really prefer to dance with ANY of the others (especially Gorka or AJ).
7.She needs to be comfortable wearing high heels......but not care about heel leads....Len is gone next year and nobody else cares about them.
8.She needs to know or have worked with one of the judges.....preferably head honcho Darcey...in the recent past. Again NOT compulsory, but....
9.She needs to be a 'non dancer'...even if she ISN'T REALLY, and did a Comic Relief dance a few years ago.....the public won't be arsed to look for that on YT anyway.
And, finally, 10. She needs NOT to have any gymnastic tendencies, kev....the judges simply do NOT like that....(golden boy louis does NOT count).
There, that covers it....I think.
Careful dear your vitroil is showing - funny how few criteria both Alesha and Jill ticked of those boxes although I have to say that although being a happily married man probably means more dudes like Jamie Rednapp trust him with their wives that it does deprive him of showmance or potential showmance potential.
No offence is meant by this but when you look at the four partners he has had I think it's clear why he hasn't been able to win. Susanna and Kellie were both fairly strong characters and whilst they evidently had enough support to get them through to the final, I would bet they had just as many people who didn't like them. They were both a bit like marmite and there didn't seem to be much of a middle ground for either of them, especially on here when (from what I can remember) you had lines firmly drawn between the 'I love them!' and 'God they are so annoying!' camps.
Louise and Frankie on the other hand were the total opposite of S and K. They seem like nice enough ladies but in all honesty they came across as rather dull. Again, both had enough votes to get through to their finals but neither had the ability come finals night to pick up enough voters who were perhaps watching for the first time. They also didn't create the most headlines, this year going into the final it felt all about Ore and Danny and Louise was almost forgotten about as a result.
Frankie I think lost out mainly because there was a contestant in Caroline Flack that had more of a 'journey' and as has been proved in the past with other winners people tend to like someone who has had more of a journey type experience.
I know Kevin is not well liked on here but personally I think his choreography is amazing and he has managed to get the absolute best out of the four people he has had to work with. I still think he will win it one day though!
There is no evidence that the general public care in the slightest about any of this, even if it were true.
The overwhelming evidence is that he hasn't won, it would suggest there are big problems that the public are not keen enough on him to will him to win. Anton last year finally had a partner that got him to the final, she was outshone by others enough not to win, but there was a feeling that Anton had a load of good will that propelled him to the final. Kevin despite 4 close calls of getting to the final didn't have that goodwill behind him.
I have given suggestions what he could do to change to win. Whether you agree or not something is stopping him winning and I think if he is given a ringer next year he still wouldn't win unless he could make big changes.
I really hope he isn't he is overexposed to the point of loosing a lot of goodwill this year, to the point of multiple threads bemoaning lots of things that irritate people about him.
1.) Learn how to actually improve a dancer each week
2.) Learn how to showcase them and not make it the Kevin show
3.) Stop relying on props and over-theming to disguise bad dancing or to fill time
4.) Stop camera-hogging, act happily but not leaping about the place when you get a 10
5.) Either learn how to choreograph properly or get another person to do it, because he really lacks in that department
6.) Ask for a duffer and see how far he can get with them - he might prove there's no favouritism if he can actually get good performances out of a duffer like Pasha, Aljaz and Katya have all done.
Horrible? No. Just people annoyed at the fact that Kevin has coasted through four series and four finals with mediocre choreography and no improvement in his partners, even though other people would get pulled up on that.
They mentioned Louise plateauing but then magically she was declared to be improving the week after - really? She looked like a Week 3 dancer even in the final.
People rag on the Cliftons because they get away with things other professionals don't and they rely way too heavily on props and theming, which quite rightly grates on people who want to watch dancing. Add into the fact that they really do seem to be camera-hogs and you can see why people dislike them.
I think these two posts are just what I think about Kevin
Me too. I have got to a point where I cannot watch his interviews on ITT! I am so glad that there were several couples I liked this year with one outstanding pair.
Comments
Oh. Oh, you meant height
I understand that a pro, who irritates getting to four finals in as many years is 'challenging' for viewers who dislike but trying to argue he is getting better treatment with his portion of celebs does not wash.
Naughty.😊
Artem's four years included Holly, who was good but couldn't really be arsed, and Fern. Pasha had Rachel in his third year. Kevin, by contrast, has had three clear runs at the final and one who got there with a little forcing from the judges. Nobody else has made more than three finals, and nobody's ever been in more than two finals consecutively. I don't feel as strongly against Kevin as some people do, but I think he's definitely become hugely overexposed and his partnership with Kellie was a big mistake.
Mwah, he likely went into the final with Susannah and Louise in the lead on audience votes. So, on both those occasions he was defeated at the final hurdle.
As you say, at least three of his four finals were earned, in that he got there without even being in the dance-off, when he certainly could have been for both Susanna and Louise. With Kellie he was in the d-o exactly as often as Ore this year. I really don't see how it's reasonable to blame him or see it as problematic, especially as he appears to be generally popular. This forum seems to have problems with the idea that most viewers and voters are interested in the celebs, rather than the pros. (I admit that I do not believe at all in the 'pro vote', whether positive or negative - at best there might be a 'partnership' vote.)
tone things down a little?
Longer answer look at the contestants he is gifted, look at their faults and work to correct those faults
All 4 of his contestants went into the final with faults they started the series with.
Also learn to choreograph better routines, stop repeating from year to year
Finally have a duffer for the next couple of years so he stops being so over exposed.
Not at all. Basing it in the examples of Artem, Pasha, Aljiaz and potentially Govanni (who has just has his second potential contender in a row), instead of just Frankie, he has to make sure he accumulates three or four partners in the 25-35 age range who are attractive and dance well (whether they could already dance well doesn't matter that much, given Jill, Alesha, Kara and Caroline). This gives him the chance of one of them seeing off the other 25-35 year old opponents, male and female. But people from Hollyoaks don't count, as apparently they can't win (see Ali, Ricky, Ashley, Danny).
There is no evidence that the general public care in the slightest about any of this, even if it were true.
I doubt it, unless he has someone who is totally compatible with his style there is always a dissonance. When they match the annoyance factor escalates. His partners are loved by the public, just not quite enough, so that last final hurdle becomes a let down because the casual final only voters do not invest in the partnership.
Excellent, so we can blame Trump for Kevin losing too.
I agree slightly less exposure wouldn't do Kevin any harm for a year or so. Familiarity breeds contempt. But I think there's a limit to how much Kevin can control how he comes across, because it feels as though the narrative of the show generally has become Mr & Mrs...Kevin & Karen and Aljaz and Janette seem to be the heart of the show now, judged by how much they're featured on ITT. And that's at the door of the producers, not Kevin himself.
*eyes Pasha's partners ever since he won*
REALLY??
It's very often a difficult balance - between being lively enough to be interesting and yet quiet enough not to be annoying. Kevin hasn't found the partner with that balance yet and I don't think Susannah was talented enough to be a winner and Kellie although she was wasn't as good as Jay or Georgia that said I think Abbey was very marmite she just did a better showdance than Sophie and wasn't an obvious ringer like Natalie. Louise was too ringery and not quite passionate enough in her dancers. A lot of people outside of this forum liked her especially older viewers I think but at the end of the day she wasn't as good as Danny or as engaging or as much of a journeyman as Ore and that cost her in the end - however much of a journeyman he wasnt' Ore wasn't someone with obvious previous dance experience like Louise and Danny and that may have counted for something in the end possibly helped by Len's advocacy.
I think the majority of people in the wider world out there beyond this forum like Kevin (I don't think he's 'box office poison' like James Jordan - whom they put with a variety of different women who were all good and who mostly got voted out earlier than they should have been although Alex Jones probably got to about where and possibly slightly beyond her ablitity level - was) and it's just they prefered Ore in the end. In the end Kevin had an uphill task get Louise to put her all into her dances - he certainly tried everything he could to make that happen or make it appear she had and it's hard to think of anyone other than Alijaz (who seems good with the quiet ones but is probably too tall for Louise and in any case was the only one tall enough for Daisy) who might have done better. This year he failed IMO because of her and not him.
So it may be something as simple as he hasn't had found the right girl yet.
So, he needs a partner with these WINNING attributes.........
1.She needs to be over 30, rather than over 40. With at least two kids. Young AND SASSY enough to get the 18 year old blokes vote, but old enough to get the momsy vote.
2.She needs to be able to smile at all times on camera. Off camera she can be as nasty as ****!
3.She needs to be able to cry at the drop of a hat, but also punch the air incessantly (like kev) when they get through to the final. As they will, don't worry.
4.She needs to show compassion to losing dance-off rivals...even if she would really like to kill them off screen just to get through to the next week.
5.She needs to work for the BBC....this is NOT compulsory, but it does help...A LOT.
6.She needs to say many many times that she' loves Kev'....even if she would really prefer to dance with ANY of the others (especially Gorka or AJ).
7.She needs to be comfortable wearing high heels......but not care about heel leads....Len is gone next year and nobody else cares about them.
8.She needs to know or have worked with one of the judges.....preferably head honcho Darcey...in the recent past. Again NOT compulsory, but....
9.She needs to be a 'non dancer'...even if she ISN'T REALLY, and did a Comic Relief dance a few years ago.....the public won't be arsed to look for that on YT anyway.
And, finally, 10. She needs NOT to have any gymnastic tendencies, kev....the judges simply do NOT like that....(golden boy louis does NOT count).
There, that covers it....I think.
I am sure one year he will get the perfect partner, just a break of a year or so would be great so that other male professionals can grab some limelight.
Careful dear your vitroil is showing - funny how few criteria both Alesha and Jill ticked of those boxes although I have to say that although being a happily married man probably means more dudes like Jamie Rednapp trust him with their wives that it does deprive him of showmance or potential showmance potential.
Louise and Frankie on the other hand were the total opposite of S and K. They seem like nice enough ladies but in all honesty they came across as rather dull. Again, both had enough votes to get through to their finals but neither had the ability come finals night to pick up enough voters who were perhaps watching for the first time. They also didn't create the most headlines, this year going into the final it felt all about Ore and Danny and Louise was almost forgotten about as a result.
Frankie I think lost out mainly because there was a contestant in Caroline Flack that had more of a 'journey' and as has been proved in the past with other winners people tend to like someone who has had more of a journey type experience.
I know Kevin is not well liked on here but personally I think his choreography is amazing and he has managed to get the absolute best out of the four people he has had to work with. I still think he will win it one day though!
The overwhelming evidence is that he hasn't won, it would suggest there are big problems that the public are not keen enough on him to will him to win. Anton last year finally had a partner that got him to the final, she was outshone by others enough not to win, but there was a feeling that Anton had a load of good will that propelled him to the final. Kevin despite 4 close calls of getting to the final didn't have that goodwill behind him.
I have given suggestions what he could do to change to win. Whether you agree or not something is stopping him winning and I think if he is given a ringer next year he still wouldn't win unless he could make big changes.
I really hope he isn't he is overexposed to the point of loosing a lot of goodwill this year, to the point of multiple threads bemoaning lots of things that irritate people about him.