World Wrestling Entertainment Discussion XXII (Spoilers)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 603
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    ags_rule wrote: »
    Here's an idea - stop watching wrestling with your booker hat on and watch it with your fan hat on. It's all so much more enjoyable when you leave worrying about things like the future of the company to creative.

    Having said that, awful RAW. That's the first week Impact has been better than it for a good few months now.

    I think the point the OP is maybe making is that watching with the fan hat on isnt easy when you are a fan of certain guys and you see how they are booked!!!

    They have no idea what to do with the Miz - that was evident last night by just sticking him in a random segment! Unless the Miz snaps and destroys a TOP competitor (Punk, Cena, Lesnar?, Orton) due to how he has been treated in the past few months, then its been pointless.....
  • steven87gillsteven87gill Posts: 1,159
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    BenjaminS wrote: »
    It is whether management realise that, though.

    Love Jericho's jacket :D

    I think VKM was hoping a Cena loss at WM would make him seem more vulnerable, thus perhaps tricking the more smarky members of fanbase to feel more sympathetic towards him against Brock.

    But if that was the intention it's not gone down that way. Sure, Brock got some heat but I got the feeling people didn't really want to boo him here.
    No matter how much 'Johnny', comes out and kisses Lesnars ass, It won't change people's opinion on Cena. The attempt to push Brock as the heel here feels contrived and unnatural.

    Just let the damn fans decide for themselves .
  • xKatieLxxKatieLx Posts: 4,400
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    Raw was quite bad. The only plus side was there was no divas match although I'd much rather have a divas match than the three scrooges or whoever they were called. The Rock seems pointless saying he wants the WWE Title and then disappearing. I don't really care for Lord Tensai atm and think his matches defeating the future endeavoured class of 2012 should be on Superstars. They also seem to have no idea what to do with The Miz and the Big Show embarrassing Cody is getting boring quickly.

    Also apparently the Bella Twins will be leaving at Extreme Rules. :D So hopefully Kharma will return then and destroy them like she promised and then fued with Beth who hopefully will start to get some wins soon.
  • DanielFDanielF Posts: 2,006
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    The Fake Three Stooges were awful, talk about raping the past...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 603
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    DanielF wrote: »
    The Fake Three Stooges were awful, talk about raping the past...

    Worse than that is its going to be a real film.......cringe.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 603
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    xKatieLx wrote: »
    Raw was quite bad. The only plus side was there was no divas match although I'd much rather have a divas match than the three scrooges or whoever they were called. The Rock seems pointless saying he wants the WWE Title and then disappearing. I don't really care for Lord Tensai atm and think his matches defeating the future endeavoured class of 2012 should be on Superstars. They also seem to have no idea what to do with The Miz and the Big Show embarrassing Cody is getting boring quickly.

    Also apparently the Bella Twins will be leaving at Extreme Rules. :D So hopefully Kharma will return then and destroy them like she promised and then fued with Beth who hopefully will start to get some wins soon.

    What hacks me off is the lack of rub that the midcard guys are getting from the likes of the Rock, Cena, Lesnar, Taker, HHH, Orton, Kane and even Jericho!

    The only one that got benefit from those guys was Sheamus beating Jericho at the rumble.

    Having the stars of the past (and Cena/Lesnar) give the rub to Rhodes, Ryder, Ziggler, Miz, Truth, Bryan, Sheamus etc would maybe MAKE stars.

    Instead the 8 I mentioned have just remained as the main men, D Bryan got a run, Miz got a run but thats it - one run then shunted down the card. The only one that has broken through is CM Punk and even now he is watered down beyond belief compared to the pre-chicago Punk from 2011...
  • ags_ruleags_rule Posts: 19,388
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=FTpqN4FtdbE

    The ending of Backlash 2000, Attitude Era at it's very best!
  • ags_ruleags_rule Posts: 19,388
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    What hacks me off is the lack of rub that the midcard guys are getting from the likes of the Rock, Cena, Lesnar, Taker, HHH, Orton, Kane and even Jericho!

    The only one that got benefit from those guys was Sheamus beating Jericho at the rumble.

    Having the stars of the past (and Cena/Lesnar) give the rub to Rhodes, Ryder, Ziggler, Miz, Truth, Bryan, Sheamus etc would maybe MAKE stars.

    Instead the 8 I mentioned have just remained as the main men, D Bryan got a run, Miz got a run but thats it - one run then shunted down the card. The only one that has broken through is CM Punk and even now he is watered down beyond belief compared to the pre-chicago Punk from 2011...

    Punk has stayed at the top because he is good enough to be there.

    I am totally unconvinced by Rhodes, Ryder, Miz, Truth and Sheamus as being anything more than mid-carders and occasional main event fodder.

    Ziggler has potential but he isn't ready - yet.

    Bit early to say that Bryan's push is over, isn't it? I'd say it's pretty likely he'll be in a triple-threat match for the belt at Extreme Rules.

    People can talk all they want about the old stars not putting over the new, but it's pretty simple really - most of the new stars just aren't good enough.

    I'd love to see Bobby Roode go to WWE, I think he could be the next Triple H.
  • AJ WheelsAJ Wheels Posts: 2,758
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    Bored of CM Punk now. The buzz has worn off.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 603
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    ags_rule wrote: »
    Punk has stayed at the top because he is good enough to be there.

    I am totally unconvinced by Rhodes, Ryder, Miz, Truth and Sheamus as being anything more than mid-carders and occasional main event fodder.

    Ziggler has potential but he isn't ready - yet.

    Bit early to say that Bryan's push is over, isn't it? I'd say it's pretty likely he'll be in a triple-threat match for the belt at Extreme Rules.

    People can talk all they want about the old stars not putting over the new, but it's pretty simple really - most of the new stars just aren't good enough.

    I'd love to see Bobby Roode go to WWE, I think he could be the next Triple H.

    The problem Ziggler, Bryan, Ryder etc have is that unlike the WWE of 94-98 that made all these new stars due to the likes of Hogan, Savage etc going to WCW and giving the midcard of Hart, Michaels, Austin etc the chance to break through, these guys dont have this opportunity as the top guys have been there now for about 15 years.

    When Austin came in as Ringmaster did we expect Stone Cold? When Rock came in as Rocky Maivia, did we expect the Rock? When Hunter Hearst Helmsley came in did we expect HHH???

    We looked at all these guys in 96, and we did not expect superstars on the level of Hogan or Savage at that time.

    We are in the same situation now - we think that Ziggler, Miz, Ryder etc cant be like the Rock, HHH etc but all it takes is opportunity and good booking. Unfortunately I worry neither exists in WWE now.
  • AJ WheelsAJ Wheels Posts: 2,758
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    ags_rule wrote: »
    Here's an idea - stop watching wrestling with your booker hat on and watch it with your fan hat on. It's all so much more enjoyable when you leave worrying about things like the future of the company to creative.

    Having said that, awful RAW. That's the first week Impact has been better than it for a good few months now.

    Absolutely.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 966
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    Would anyone else not be surprized to see Ambrose and Foley go at it at Extreme Rules?
  • Harris_07Harris_07 Posts: 27,953
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    Would anyone else not be surprized to see Ambrose and Foley go at it at Extreme Rules?

    I would be surprised, but I think it's a good way of introducing Ambrose's character. I think it's important for younger stars to have feuds with veterans/legends. For example, having Ziggler in a feud against Stone Cold would propel him to the main event scene. If WWE management continued to push him with confidence, that is.
  • bazellisbazellis Posts: 5,405
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    They're ruining Brock before he's even had a chance to start.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,353
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    ags_rule wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=FTpqN4FtdbE

    The ending of Backlash 2000, Attitude Era at it's very best!

    I miss run-ins and weaponry - I've been re-watching some old DVDs while essay writing and there's only about one match a PPV where no weapon was used behind the referees back!
  • jamespondojamespondo Posts: 6,040
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    Don't necessarily agree, but I can see the argument in Miz, Ryder and Rhodes not being headline material.

    I disagree about Ziggler not being ready. He's needs to drop Vicky, and while some may disagree, I think a name change could be enough to truly elevate him. Nic Nemeth sounds much better than porn star lite Dolph Ziggler imo. Jobbing him to Brodus Clay and being made to look inferior to Punk on so many occasions hasn't helped.

    I'd say Sheamus is the new Batista with his superface push. Dave was photogenic; Sheamus is cartoonish. Both have great physiques. Both are limited in the ring and on the microphone, although Sheamus has improved more and is more likeable. Both are pals with Mr. Levesque... He'll pick up clean wins against Orton and Punk sooner or later to cement him.


    Ironic isn't it? While WWE has spent the last 4 years changing every signing's name (e.g Dos Caras - Alberto Del Rio, Mistico - Sin Cara), the top 3 bankable stars that could jump ship or quit own the rights to their names. They are Cena, Orton and Punk.
  • JoooeJoooe Posts: 8,656
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    I was hoping the Big Show/Rhodes story was finished last week. Would love to see Rhodes go after the main title.
    jamespondo wrote: »
    I'd say Sheamus is the new Batista with his superface push. Dave was photogenic; Sheamus is cartoonish. Both have great physiques. Both are limited in the ring and on the microphone, although Sheamus has improved more and is more likeable. Both are pals with Mr. Levesque...
    And both are pretty boring. ;)
  • Biffo the BearBiffo the Bear Posts: 25,859
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    I think the problem is the lack of decent gimmicks. A lot of the younger stars (who've replaced the positions of the old jobbers) like Rhodes, Ziggler et al are just too generic, or just going on about how great they are, how great they are and, oh, how great they are, but with nothing else to back that up.

    When people talk about memorable eras, it's because there were memorable characters, and that's what they need. They need to stop having sung rock songs as intro music as well. Randy Orton, for example, would be loads better if he had a proper theme tune as opposed to a cheesy generic rock song.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,353
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    I think the problem is the lack of decent gimmicks. A lot of the younger stars (who've replaced the positions of the old jobbers) like Rhodes, Ziggler et al are just too generic, or just going on about how great they are, how great they are and, oh, how great they are, but with nothing else to back that up.

    When people talk about memorable eras, it's because there were memorable characters, and that's what they need. They need to stop having sung rock songs as intro music as well. Randy Orton, for example, would be loads better if he had a proper theme tune as opposed to a cheesy generic rock song.

    RE: entrance music, I don't think Orton is a great example because the lyrics to his music are appropriate to his character, similar to how even Zigglers music had the shouted declarations to fit in with how great he is. Someone like Swagger I would class as a generic rock song, it's got nothing to do with him. Ryders music is generic but at least it has the "WWWYKI" spoken opening. Similar to how Edge's music always had the "You think you know me". (I'm not sure this makes sense so I apologise!)
  • ags_ruleags_rule Posts: 19,388
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    I think the problem is the lack of decent gimmicks. A lot of the younger stars (who've replaced the positions of the old jobbers) like Rhodes, Ziggler et al are just too generic, or just going on about how great they are, how great they are and, oh, how great they are, but with nothing else to back that up.

    When people talk about memorable eras, it's because there were memorable characters, and that's what they need. They need to stop having sung rock songs as intro music as well. Randy Orton, for example, would be loads better if he had a proper theme tune as opposed to a cheesy generic rock song.

    In the words of Mr. Daniel Bryan - YES!

    WWE is mostly appalling for gimmicks. For all their problems, I think TNA does them so much better, all their characters seem to have a real personality and seem much more human. And that's all a gimmick is - an actual personality. It doesn't need to be an OTT gimmick like The Undertaker or Kane; it just needs to be something that separates them from everybody else.

    Punk, Bryan and Cena don't really have silly or OTT gimmicks, but they all have individual personalities, and fans respond to that.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 966
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    Ayoe else notice whenever Brodus is out, Cole mentions Cameron and Naomi an annoying number of times. Trying to get them over a bit maybe?
  • Big Boy BarryBig Boy Barry Posts: 35,290
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    The Three Stooges thing was embarassing. I don't know why WWE wastes screentime on promoting crappy C-list movies. They should be using that time to promote their own talent, since those are the people who generate the revenue for the company. Do the PG audience even know who the Three Stooges are? If WWE insists on doing cross promotions with movies, they should stick to promoting films that would appeal to their fanbase demographics like GI Joe, Transformers, The Avengers, Hunger Games etc....and not crap like the Three Stooges and MacGruber.

    Jericho is excellent in his heel role at present. Much more entertaining than the suit-wearing serious Jericho calling people hypocrites (for no reason), or "trolling" the audience like he did when he came back. The only problem with the feud is that Punk is generally unlikable. He's a talented guy but he comes across as such a douche, it's hard to feel sympathy for him

    Brodus cracks me up. He's very entertaining.

    I presume Daniel Bryan will appear on Smackdown tonight. Otherwise it makes no sense for WWE not to capitalise on his momentum.

    The Lord Tensai thing isn't working. What a waste of Yoshi Tatsu. They should have simply brought Matt Bloom back as A-Train. There was no need for the silly Japanese gimmick.

    ADR, Sheamus and Mark Henry all bore me

    Cody Rhodes and Drew McIntyre should be added to the Swagger/Ziggler stable with Vickie Guererro. If only those guys were managed by Paul Heyman, they'd be an awesome faction.

    The Cena/Lesnar fight was awesome.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,864
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    ags_rule wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=FTpqN4FtdbE

    The ending of Backlash 2000, Attitude Era at it's very best!

    That was a great PPV, even though Channel 4 aired it on a 50 minute delay with adverts and censored some parts (such as the Dudleys putting Trish Stratus through a table)

    April 2000 was also the first month in which WWE had two PPV's (excluding any UK only PPV's)
  • Georged123Georged123 Posts: 5,762
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    The build up for Lesnar vs Cena after one show is as good as the build up for Cena vs Rock which had a whole year.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 67,320
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    ags_rule wrote: »
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=FTpqN4FtdbE

    The ending of Backlash 2000, Attitude Era at it's very best!

    That is my all time favorite match it just had EVERYTHING you could want!

    Backlash 2000 was just a phenominal PPV!

    It's hard to believe that PPV was held in the same arena as last nights Raw! What a difference in crowds over the last 12 years!
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