Anytime+, Vs VM Tivo, Vs Youview

masona2masona2 Posts: 819
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Hi Guys,

With EVERYONE getting into the on-demand IPTV market, do you view either VM's Tivo or Youview as a threat to Sky's subscriber base?
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,275
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    masona2 wrote: »
    Hi Guys,

    With EVERYONE getting into the on-demand IPTV market, do you view either VM's Tivo or Youview as a threat to Sky's subscriber base?

    Everyone getting into it? Most providers have been doing it for years! Sky are the ones getting into it, and quite slowly i might add.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 94
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    masona2 wrote: »
    Hi Guys,

    With EVERYONE getting into the on-demand IPTV market, do you view either VM's Tivo or Youview as a threat to Sky's subscriber base?

    I see TiVo as a major problem to Sky. I have been with Sky for many years but have to say their attempt at VOD is nothing but useless. I am waiting for the TiVo information to become available the I will be switching.
  • masona2masona2 Posts: 819
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    Juli3 wrote: »
    I see TiVo as a major problem to Sky. I have been with Sky for many years but have to say their attempt at VOD is nothing but useless. I am waiting for the TiVo information to become available the I will be switching.

    Hi Juli,

    Why is A+ useless? Whats wrong with It?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 66
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    Yes anytime+ took a long time coming but im expecting big things from it. Sky dont do anything by halfs!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 94
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    masona2 wrote: »
    Hi Juli,m

    Why is A+ useless? Whats wrong with It?

    Unless you have a HD box you can' use it; which is not a problem for me but a lot of people I know only have the Sky+ box and at £249 for the HD box it's a bit disapointing. The HD content is exactly the same as it was before with none available to download. There are a lot of films available but they are all in SD. When you pay a subscription of £10 per month you like to watch as much HD as possible.

    Maybe I was expecting too much from it, but the way Sky were advertising it I thought it was more like VOD.

    I have heard a lot of complaints about the Anytime+, but may get better in time, you never know.
  • TrinitronHDTrinitronHD Posts: 581
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    Juli3 wrote: »
    Maybe I was expecting too much from it, but the way Sky were advertising it I thought it was more like VOD.

    I have heard a lot of complaints about the Anytime+, but may get better in time, you never know.
    It IS VOD! But in SD, with a fairly limited amount of content so far. You select a programme or film and it's delivered to your box in real time. What else can video-on-demand be?

    Hopefully content will improve next year as rights licences are sorted out and Sky will get some HD stuff on there.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 94
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    It IS VOD! But in SD, with a fairly limited amount of content so far. You select a programme or film and it's delivered to your box in real time. What else can video-on-demand be?

    Hopefully content will improve next year as rights licences are sorted out and Sky will get some HD stuff on there.
    By VOD I was meaning more like VM. Let's hope your right but I am sure they must be looking at improving it all the time.
  • masona2masona2 Posts: 819
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    Juli3 wrote: »
    By VOD I was meaning more like VM. Let's hope your right but I am sure they must be looking at improving it all the time.

    Yes, like VM. But no, it appears not. Even though the service is new and it will improve, it will never match VM.

    Even Youview will knock the socks off this.

    Though I also doubt that will match VM either, unless your broadband is with TalkTalk or BT.
  • masona2masona2 Posts: 819
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    VM - HD TV over cable, without eating into BB allocation.

    Youview - HD TV over the internet. Hmm, that will be interesting.
  • man_bear_pigman_bear_pig Posts: 441
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    anytime + is at the minute hugely disappointing but with time and hopefully more content added should get better, in terms of VOD sky is miles behind BTvision , sky should be worried about the arrival of youview as it has the potential to be huge. for me though everything will depend on costing when youview begins because if there pricing is reasonable then sky will be in trouble. if youview is a sucess then sky may well regret ripping off its customers over the years.
  • RoweyRowey Posts: 2,154
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    masona2 wrote: »
    Hi Guys,

    With EVERYONE getting into the on-demand IPTV market, do you view either VM's Tivo or Youview as a threat to Sky's subscriber base?
    I'm never sure if threads like this are serious or not, Is this thread a joke or do you really think things like youview and VM are a serious threat to sky's subscriber figures??? :confused:

    In the past we've had Ondigital, ITV Digital, NTL, Telewest, Cable and Wireless, Home Choice, BT Vision, Virgin Media, FREEview, FREEsat etc etc. Where people have started threads saying that once "insert flavour of the month new TV provider" starts then SKY subscribers will all leave and sky should be really worried.

    Well look at whats happened since FREEVIEW and FREESAT and the rest have been around.

    SKY's subscriber figures have rocketed to over 10 MILLION and continue to rise and thats with their rivals offering FREE TV. So of course none of these others are serious rivals. :rolleyes:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 94
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    Rowey wrote: »
    I'm never sure if threads like this are serious or not, Is this thread a joke or do you really think things like youview and VM are a serious threat to sky's subscriber figures??? :confused:

    In the past we've had Ondigital, ITV Digital, NTL, Telewest, Cable and Wireless, Home Choice, BT Vision, Virgin Media, FREEview, FREEsat etc etc. Where people have started threads saying that once "insert flavour of the month new TV provider" starts then SKY subscribers will all leave and sky should be really worried.

    Well look at whats happened since FREEVIEW and FREESAT and the rest have been around.

    SKY's subscriber figures have rocketed to over 10 MILLION and continue to rise and thats with their rivals offering FREE TV. So of course none of these others are serious rivals. :rolleyes:

    Except maybe now TiVo has joined VM? Or do you not consider this a possible threat?
  • BatchBatch Posts: 3,344
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    mixin2477 wrote: »
    Sky dont do anything by halfs!

    Quite right, that's why more than half of us don't have anytime+ yet ;)
    --
    Very interested to see how the V+TIVO takes the **** out of Sky+ in terms of functionality..
  • technoguytechnoguy Posts: 2,271
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    I go the USA a lot and Tivo was quite big a few years back but doesn't seem to get much of a look in now. Many of the USTV providers seem to be going with their own DVR's. Tivo is good but its overkill and gimmicky and the novelty soon wears off. Only if you're a hardcore TV nerd will you be that bothered about having tivo, most people just want to watch TV.

    Anything virgin do is not much of a threat to Sky as they have a limited network area. Where as SKY goes all over UK and europe even. Which is a shame really as SKY could do with some competition as that would drive prices down for subscribers.

    Also imo Virgin are trying to push their network too much, too soon and its causing many people problems with VOD not playing. You select a programme and you just get a message saying: "We're currently experiencing high demand in your area" and it won't play until less people are using it. This is becoming more and more common...

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1250265
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 94
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    technoguy wrote: »
    I go the USA a lot and Tivo was quite big a few years back but doesn't seem to get much of a look in now. Many of the USTV providers seem to be going with their own DVR's. Tivo is good but its overkill and gimmicky and the novelty soon wears off. Only if you're a hardcore TV nerd will you be that bothered about having tivo, most people just want to watch TV.

    Anything virgin do is not much of a threat to Sky as they have a limited network area. Where as SKY goes all over UK and europe even. Which is a shame really as SKY could do with some competition as that would drive prices down for subscribers.

    Also imo Virgin are trying to push their network too much, too soon and its causing many people problems with VOD not playing. You select a programme and you just get a message saying: "We're currently experiencing high demand in your area" and it won't play until less people are using it. This is becoming more and more common...

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1250265

    Very interesing thread. Makes any one now think twice about VM, unless TiVo is going to solve all the problems. VOD is no good if you cant watch it at peak times!
  • TechnixTechnix Posts: 2,571
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    technoguy wrote: »
    Also imo Virgin are trying to push their network too much, too soon and its causing many people problems with VOD not playing. You select a programme and you just get a message saying: "We're currently experiencing high demand in your area" and it won't play until less people are using it. This is becoming more and more common...

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1250265

    Your assuming everyone is affected by this rare problem because a few subscribers out of 3.7million have complained? Unlike other VOD operators VM's VOD has absolutely no effect on your broadband speed or connection. I know VM get round to fixing this problem by adding more capacity at their regional VOD servers when they have identified the problem. Some of the messages from your link: "I often used to get this error message." and 1 from Faultsman who works for VM: "VoD servers are being upgraded. Cant all be done at once. Plans have to be made, equipment sorted, yada yada... the VoD service is highly subscribed (in affected areas) & solutions are in progress... simplezzzz.". I use HD VOD on VM almost everyday and have never seen this problem for the 5 years we have had VOD.

    Another thing to take into consideration is that VM's VOD servers are installed in all their regional headends (44 of them, which hold duplicates of all assets). When a request comes in for an asset to be played it is done at a regional level and not a national level, meaning that there is more available streams for more users. With Sky Anytime+ an asset being requested comes from 1 source over your broadband. As this service is rolled out to more Sky+ HD boxes and other ISPs, expect access to this service to degrade.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,625
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    technoguy wrote: »
    I go the USA a lot and Tivo was quite big a few years back but doesn't seem to get much of a look in now. Many of the USTV providers seem to be going with their own DVR's. Tivo is good but its overkill and gimmicky and the novelty soon wears off. Only if you're a hardcore TV nerd will you be that bothered about having tivo, most people just want to watch TV.

    Anything virgin do is not much of a threat to Sky as they have a limited network area. Where as SKY goes all over UK and europe even. Which is a shame really as SKY could do with some competition as that would drive prices down for subscribers.

    Also imo Virgin are trying to push their network too much, too soon and its causing many people problems with VOD not playing. You select a programme and you just get a message saying: "We're currently experiencing high demand in your area" and it won't play until less people are using it. This is becoming more and more common...

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1250265

    Sky only cover 70% of the UK with LLU (this is a thread about Anytime+ not tv) and until they open anytime+ to other isp's they are limited. Also who knows how the isp's will react and if they will block it if not payed by Sky for bandwidth used...


    As to Virgins network, they have just completed a major change whereby all tv is based on IPTV, along with analogue switchoff and docsis 3 rollout they are now in a possition to go up to 1 gig on broadband if they want plus have lots more linear HD channels.
    To boost it even more they just need to upgrade the cisco switchs once more and have an increase of serveral times current bandwidth.

    The only real limit to VM is that modems and routers in the home are not up to what the network can handle and will need switching.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,275
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    Juli3 wrote: »
    Very interesing thread. Makes any one now think twice about VM, unless TiVo is going to solve all the problems. VOD is no good if you cant watch it at peak times!

    I use Virgin Media VoD all of the time and it works perfectly for me. I know a lot of people on Virgin and they use it regularly without any issues. On the rare occasion I have ever had any error message all you need do is simply try again straight after and it works.
  • masona2masona2 Posts: 819
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    Rowey wrote: »
    I'm never sure if threads like this are serious or not, Is this thread a joke or do you really think things like youview and VM are a serious threat to sky's subscriber figures??? :confused:

    Sky have the numbers at the moment, but technologically they are years behind other providers.

    Youview with HD TV on demand from multiple different sources (with masses of free content too).

    And VM Tivo, which really does look like the dogs bollocks. And, as stated above, VM are also upgrading their network to absolutely mind-blowing speeds.

    So yes Rowey, these services are a threat.
  • ek-ukek-uk Posts: 2,395
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    [QUOTE=technoguy;45708268
    Also imo Virgin are trying to push their network too much, too soon and its causing many people problems with VOD not playing. You select a programme and you just get a message saying: "We're currently experiencing high demand in your area" and it won't play until less people are using it. This is becoming more and more common...

    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=1250265[/QUOTE]

    I used to get that message sometimes. I haven't seen it for several months. Not once. So VM obviously upgrade areas. It only ever happened on HD. SD always plays. I would think as Anytime + rolls out to more people we might also see capacity problems with related threads. That won't mean everybody has the problem or that it is permanent.
  • TrinitronHDTrinitronHD Posts: 581
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    ek-uk wrote: »
    I would think as Anytime + rolls out to more people we might also see capacity problems with related threads. That won't mean everybody has the problem or that it is permanent.
    That will be one of the reasons for the phased rollout of A+. Sky can get valuable statistics on the load on their VOD servers from the first phase before extending the service to other ISPs.

    I don't think there will be much impact in the early days - VOD is important, but most people buy on the basis of live TV content, even if they timeshift a lot of it by recording. YouView sounds good but is going to need good broadband connections to support it. Cost will be a significant factor - BT are notorious for attractive headline speeds but useless bandwidth restrictions. TalkTalk are better but a relatively small ISP.

    As for TiVo on Virgin, a much better interface than V+ but will they roll it out to non-cabled areas?
  • BigFoot87BigFoot87 Posts: 9,293
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    Big_Ted wrote: »
    Sky only cover 70% of the UK with LLU (this is a thread about Anytime+ not tv) and until they open anytime+ to other isp's they are limited. Also who knows how the isp's will react and if they will block it if not payed by Sky for bandwidth used...


    As to Virgins network, they have just completed a major change whereby all tv is based on IPTV.


    That's not strictly true, AFAIK, only the VOD content uses IPTV, the linear channels are delivered using DVB-C which doesn't use IPTV at all:
    http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?doc_id=181664&site=cdn&
    But the plan revealed today "isn't quite announcing the 'launch of IPTV services'," a Virgin Media spokeswoman noted in an email response questions from Cable Digital News.

    "The agreement with Cisco is to help enhance our existing TV platform, which broadcasts content over DVB-C [Digital Video Broadcasting – Cable], and then our VoD service runs on IP," she noted.
  • RoweyRowey Posts: 2,154
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    masona2 wrote: »
    So yes Rowey, these services are a threat.
    They aren't a serious threat. Most people don't give a monkeys how technological the TV arrives at their house. As long as SKY have the rights to shows and sports that they love they'll keep on subscribing.

    You are being unrealistic/dreaming to think otherwise. Sky/News corp is a massive company that buy up exclusive rights to top sports and hit tv shows and can destroy any of its rivals at will.

    Bump this thread up in a few years time. Sky will have 15 million+ subscribers and youview will be a distant memory. Virgin cable will probably be still around but may have a different name.
  • BigFoot87BigFoot87 Posts: 9,293
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    To a certain extent, I have to agree with Rowey here.

    Content is King. Joe Bloggs or the average housewife couldn't care less if IPTV; Cable; Satellite or the Postman is involved in the delivery of that content. As long as they get it, at a price they can afford.

    And while VM's TV/VOD offering has improved tremendously over the last year (and will continue with TiVO and HD at no extra charge on the XL pack), Sky's relentless acquisition of content has and will continue to be a big draw for people, especially when that content is exclusive to Sky, for better or worse.

    In truth there's very little difference between Sky and VM for content, especially now VM have most of the Sky HD channels and Sky VOD content which is coming soon to Cable.

    Its a different story when comparing YouView/Freeview and Sky, and rightfully so - a Pay TV operator should have more content.

    Also, Sky's overall service coverage is far superior to VM, and potentially YouView's VOD service unless non-partner ISPs sign-up.

    VM are a threat - but a limited one, limited to 50% of the country until there's a massive expansion of the cable network, which even via telegraph poles, will take time.

    YouView VOD will have more coverage but even if that has 100% coverage, it will mean squat if people want to watch content which is only available on Pay-TV channels.....unless that content becomes available on Freeview/YouView and people want to pay for it (like BT Vision's offering for Sky Sports....and the only reason that offer exists is due to OFCOM).
  • masona2masona2 Posts: 819
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    BigFoot87 wrote: »
    To a certain extent, I have to agree with Rowey here.

    Content is King. Joe Bloggs or the average housewife couldn't care less if IPTV; Cable; Satellite or the Postman is involved in the delivery of that content. As long as they get it, at a price they can afford.

    And while VM's TV/VOD offering has improved tremendously over the last year (and will continue with TiVO and HD at no extra charge on the XL pack), Sky's relentless acquisition of content has and will continue to be a big draw for people, especially when that content is exclusive to Sky, for better or worse.

    In truth there's very little difference between Sky and VM for content, especially now VM have most of the Sky HD channels and Sky VOD content which is coming soon to Cable.

    Its a different story when comparing YouView/Freeview and Sky, and rightfully so - a Pay TV operator should have more content.

    Also, Sky's overall service coverage is far superior to VM, and potentially YouView's VOD service unless non-partner ISPs sign-up.

    VM are a threat - but a limited one, limited to 50% of the country until there's a massive expansion of the cable network, which even via telegraph poles, will take time.

    YouView VOD will have more coverage but even if that has 100% coverage, it will mean squat if people want to watch content which is only available on Pay-TV channels.....unless that content becomes available on Freeview/YouView and people want to pay for it (like BT Vision's offering for Sky Sports....and the only reason that offer exists is due to OFCOM).

    To a certain extent, I agree with both of you.

    And good post Rowey, about people not giving a toss about technology.

    The point I was making was with the improvements coming to future services, these have a chance to take subscribers off Sky.

    I agree content is king. But if people don't want to pay top whack prices to watch bang up-to-date first released programmes, and are prepared to wait for the content at far lower prices or even for free, if the service is good enough, it will succeed.
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