Funny - can you tell that to the cyclist who zipped past me and through a four way junction on a red light last night (I mean the stats don't seem right - I see quite a few doing it round my way!)? Fecking idiot...
Also please mention it to the cyclist who nearly ran me down on Oxford Street. I got to the central island and was crossing the second half of the road,so the traffic was to my left and stopped on red,and the guy came up on the INSIDE of the cars and almost sent me flying.
Strange people have all these negative experiences with cyclists.
I've never had issues with cyclists myself. You are hardly going to notice a well behave person on a bike so these personal accounts can be a bit skewed.
I wonder how that compares to the number of "amber gambler" drivers who end up going through on red?
There's a poster who normally posts in the 'Broadcasting' section who's well into stats so I PMed him and obtained his permission to quote him in this thread (it is a private message after all).
He did ask that I emphasise that he only had a quick scan and may have missed some vital element but this is what he said:
Had a quick glance and it seems to me that IIUC the main study wasn't a random sample so any statistical extrapolation is shaky at best!
There's a poster who normally posts in the 'Broadcasting' section who's well into stats so I PMed him and obtained his permission to quote him in this thread (it is a private message after all).
He did ask that I emphasise that he only had a quick scan and may have missed some vital element but this is what he said:
Had a quick glance and it seems to me that IIUC the main study wasn't a random sample so any statistical extrapolation is shaky at best!
Could you ask them to elaborate. I would be interested in knowing how observing the behaviour of every cyclist on every arm of 5 major junctions during morning and evening rush hour would be self selecting beyond the fact it would be cyclists that used those junctions at those times?
Could you ask them to elaborate. I would be interested in knowing how observing the behaviour of every cyclist on every arm of 5 major junctions during morning and evening rush hour would be self selecting beyond the fact it would be cyclists that used those junctions at those times?
I'm sorry, but no. I don't wish to become some sort of a go-between.
I had hoped he'd post in the thread but he hasn't. Must have his reasons I suppose.
I can't prove anything without breaking etiquette so you'll either believe me or you won't.
Could you ask them to elaborate. I would be interested in knowing how observing the behaviour of every cyclist on every arm of 5 major junctions during morning and evening rush hour would be self selecting beyond the fact it would be cyclists that used those junctions at those times?
Because as previously highlighted this survey in its count of cyclists includes those that passed through the junctions during the green phase. It simply took the total number of cyclists and divided them by the number of RLJ's. Surely you can see the problem with that methodology.
In their defence, I think a lot of the red-light jumping by cyclists probably isn't neccesarily a big deal.
I mean, if you're in slow-moving urban traffic and you're making a left turn then, really, as long as you are courteous to pedestrians, you're probably not going to get in the way of cars as you turn left.
I guess the other side of that coin, however, is that because cyclists are so much more vulnerable than cars then I suppose any infraction could be considered "dangerous" in the same way that the higher speeds and weight of cars means that any infraction by them is also dangerous.
I'll be honest, I wouldn't say that EVERY time a cyclist jumps a red light they should be pilloried for it but posting up a figure of 16% like it's some kind of victory is rather shooting oneself in the foot IMO.
BIB: No, not unless you're a pedestrian who's trying to cross that same road when all the traffic has been stopped by red lights to facilitate that!
And it happens in Leeds all the time. I've never encountered such rude drivers/cyclists as I have done in Leeds. I've nearly come a cropper with cyclists on numerous occasions.
On the other hand, there isn't any problem in the small town in which I actually reside.
BIB: No, not unless you're a pedestrian who's trying to cross that same road when all the traffic has been stopped by red lights to facilitate that!
And it happens in Leeds all the time. I've never encountered such rude drivers/cyclists as I have done in Leeds. I've nearly come a cropper with cyclists on numerous occasions.
On the other hand, there isn't any problem in the small town in which I actually reside.
So, did you read the sentence underneath the one you bolded?
Let me highlight the important part for you:-
I mean, if you're in slow-moving urban traffic and you're making a left turn then, really, as long as you are courteous to pedestrians, you're probably not going to get in the way of cars as you turn left.
Could you ask them to elaborate. I would be interested in knowing how observing the behaviour of every cyclist on every arm of 5 major junctions during morning and evening rush hour would be self selecting beyond the fact it would be cyclists that used those junctions at those times?
Perhaps the presence of officials with clipboards standing at each junction might have moderated the cyclists' behaviour.
I'm sorry, but no. I don't wish to become some sort of a go-between.
I had hoped he'd post in the thread but he hasn't. Must have his reasons I suppose.
I can't prove anything without breaking etiquette so you'll either believe me or you won't.
That's not clear in the published paper, some parts imply it might be the case, others that they only counted cyclists at red lights, but what was actually done is not made explicit.
Comments
You'd think so.
Also please mention it to the cyclist who nearly ran me down on Oxford Street. I got to the central island and was crossing the second half of the road,so the traffic was to my left and stopped on red,and the guy came up on the INSIDE of the cars and almost sent me flying.
I've never had issues with cyclists myself. You are hardly going to notice a well behave person on a bike so these personal accounts can be a bit skewed.
There's a poster who normally posts in the 'Broadcasting' section who's well into stats so I PMed him and obtained his permission to quote him in this thread (it is a private message after all).
He did ask that I emphasise that he only had a quick scan and may have missed some vital element but this is what he said:
I'm sorry, but no. I don't wish to become some sort of a go-between.
I had hoped he'd post in the thread but he hasn't. Must have his reasons I suppose.
I can't prove anything without breaking etiquette so you'll either believe me or you won't.
Because as previously highlighted this survey in its count of cyclists includes those that passed through the junctions during the green phase. It simply took the total number of cyclists and divided them by the number of RLJ's. Surely you can see the problem with that methodology.
BIB: No, not unless you're a pedestrian who's trying to cross that same road when all the traffic has been stopped by red lights to facilitate that!
And it happens in Leeds all the time. I've never encountered such rude drivers/cyclists as I have done in Leeds. I've nearly come a cropper with cyclists on numerous occasions.
On the other hand, there isn't any problem in the small town in which I actually reside.
Try doing the same survey in more rural areas and I bet the results would be significantly different.
So, did you read the sentence underneath the one you bolded?
Let me highlight the important part for you:-
Perhaps the presence of officials with clipboards standing at each junction might have moderated the cyclists' behaviour.