Zoe Quinn and the corruption in video games media/journalism....

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  • Rhythm StickRhythm Stick Posts: 1,581
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    I thought gamergate was about **** shaming?
  • stoatiestoatie Posts: 78,106
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    el_bardos wrote: »
    Right, so we're on to anecdote about an individual to validate sweeping generalisations now. Good stuff.

    If there's one thing I've learned from this thread it's that "guilt by association" exists on a sliding scale between conclusive logic and beyond the pale depending on who's doing it.
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    I thought gamergate was about **** shaming?
    If it were, it would be the worst **** shaming campaign ever! :D
    el_bardos wrote: »
    Right, so we're on to anecdote about an individual to validate sweeping generalisations now. Good stuff.
    So its fine for an opponent of GamerGate to do a sweeping generalisation of anyone who supports GamerGate (and there are many examples on Twitter from a wide number of people) but when a group of supporters categorically expose the cult like mindset of their opponents which endorses corruption, non-disclosure and self-interest, then that's wrong.

    Right...
  • silentNatesilentNate Posts: 84,079
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    As an aside, I do wonder if any of the opponents of GamerGate see the corruption within FIFA and Sepp Blatter as merely a "fuss over nothing"..? Wouldn't surprise me if they did.

    I think England should lead a European coalition boycotting the next World Cup. Wether this will actually happen is another thing. Sadly for some players it might be the only chance they get at a World Cup :blush::(
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    One of the ringleaders of unethical behaviour, Polygon. A direct quote:

    "All video games are stupid, of course."

    Source: https://archive.is/j7x2t#selection-1695.0-1695.38

    But no, no issue here according to opponents of GG... Can't see any reason whatsoever why such publications get the flak they do from gamers or how such publications treat gamers wanting ethical standards in games journalism are dismissed at best and treated with utter contempt as the norm. (I'd roll my eyes here if the emoticon still existed)
  • Rhythm StickRhythm Stick Posts: 1,581
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    If it were, it would be the worst **** shaming campaign ever! :D

    Didn't all start from somebody sleeping with another person who was not their significant other?:o

    Definitely the worst **** shaming campaign ever I agree.:o Not sure I have a clue what the "Best" **** shaming campaign would be - but I'm sure you've got ideas on that matter.
  • InspirationInspiration Posts: 62,694
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    Only if you condone and support corruption, cronyism and collusion. I don't.

    To those who find this thread uncomfortable viewing and would rather such talk disappear so they can resume their morally questionable behaviour without scrunity or prying eyes will take no joy in me when I state that GamerGate is not going away for the foreseeable future.

    I don't support any of those things and I don't find this thread uncomfortable.. I just don't see the point to the majority of the content surrounding it. I had to google "Gamergate" to establish what it actually means now, and according to wiki it means:

    "sexism in video game culture"

    Could there be more female main characters in games? Yup. Could boys react better when they hear a female voice over a games VOIP system? Always. But that's been an issue forever dating back to the very first TCP/IP games. Things are slowly improving. But from my experience, females have never been excluded from games and generally they just deal with some of the issues surrounding their gender and gaming in general.

    I know plenty of female twitch streamers.. none seem to talk about sexism. A lot of them have enough subscribers and viewers for streaming to be their job. I've known female gamers for 20 years.. none have ever said to me they feel gaming is sexist. They just get on with it and play games.

    Whenever I venture into this thread it generally seems to be about vloggers or columists getting upset about things other people in the industry have said.. who are saying those things in response to what other people have said or done. And it just appears to be a self perpetuating s**t storm of nothing.
  • StarpussStarpuss Posts: 12,845
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    I don't support any of those things and I don't find this thread uncomfortable.. I just don't see the point to the majority of the content surrounding it. I had to google "Gamergate" to establish what it actually means now, and according to wiki it means:

    "sexism in video game culture"

    Could there be more female main characters in games? Yup. Could boys react better when they hear a female voice over a games VOIP system? Always. But that's been an issue forever dating back to the very first TCP/IP games. Things are slowly improving. But from my experience, females have never been excluded from games and generally they just deal with some of the issues surrounding their gender and gaming in general.

    I know plenty of female twitch streamers.. none seem to talk about sexism. A lot of them have enough subscribers and viewers for streaming to be their job. I've known female gamers for 20 years.. none have ever said to me they feel gaming is sexist. They just get on with it and play games.

    Whenever I venture into this thread it generally seems to be about vloggers or columists getting upset about things other people in the industry have said.. who are saying those things in response to what other people have said or done. And it just appears to be a self perpetuating s**t storm of nothing.

    Absolutely. It's a group of people, on both sides of the fence, getting their knickers in a twist over something the vast majority of gamers don't care about.

    Most of us just play the games and have fun.
  • MC_SatanMC_Satan Posts: 26,512
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    Starpuss wrote: »
    Absolutely. It's a group of people, on both sides of the fence, getting their knickers in a twist over something the vast majority of gamers don't care about.

    Most of us just play the games and have fun.
    Yep, as to finding it 'uncomfortable' to talk aboutor even read about. Well, that's utter rubbish AFAIC, it's a boring and pointless squabble amongst a bunch of people within a subset of the gaming industry. Journalists and bloggers, vloggers or whatever.
  • Kyle_TKyle_T Posts: 1,001
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    One of the ringleaders of unethical behaviour, Polygon. A direct quote:

    "All video games are stupid, of course."

    Source: https://archive.is/j7x2t#selection-1695.0-1695.38

    But no, no issue here according to opponents of GG... Can't see any reason whatsoever why such publications get the flak they do from gamers or how such publications treat gamers wanting ethical standards in games journalism are dismissed at best and treated with utter contempt as the norm. (I'd roll my eyes here if the emoticon still existed)

    Why does someone else's opinion on computer games bother you so much? Video games are just dumb escapism 99% of the time and if you take any of these "journalists" seriously then you are a mug. We live in an internet age where reviewing games is no longer the sole domain of big companies. They should be utterly irrelevant by now.

    I say this topic should be moved to the Gaming forum.
  • StarpussStarpuss Posts: 12,845
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    MC_Satan wrote: »
    Yep, as to finding it 'uncomfortable' to talk aboutor even read about. Well, that's utter rubbish AFAIC, it's a boring and pointless squabble amongst a bunch of people within a subset of the gaming industry. Journalists and bloggers, vloggers or whatever.

    Someone might even suggest it's in their own best interests to keep the debate going :o like these rubbishy celebrity blogs that post increasingly bizarre things about Z-list nobodies to attract readers. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ^_^
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    I don't support any of those things and I don't find this thread uncomfortable.. I just don't see the point to the majority of the content surrounding it. I had to google "Gamergate" to establish what it actually means now, and according to wiki it means:

    "sexism in video game culture"

    Could there be more female main characters in games? Yup. Could boys react better when they hear a female voice over a games VOIP system? Always. But that's been an issue forever dating back to the very first TCP/IP games. Things are slowly improving. But from my experience, females have never been excluded from games and generally they just deal with some of the issues surrounding their gender and gaming in general.

    I know plenty of female twitch streamers.. none seem to talk about sexism. A lot of them have enough subscribers and viewers for streaming to be their job. I've known female gamers for 20 years.. none have ever said to me they feel gaming is sexist. They just get on with it and play games.

    Whenever I venture into this thread it generally seems to be about vloggers or columists getting upset about things other people in the industry have said.. who are saying those things in response to what other people have said or done. And it just appears to be a self perpetuating s**t storm of nothing.
    A quick bit of research away from blatantly biased sources quoted by Wikipedia will give you a true representation of what GamerGate stands for. Anyone suggesting it is a campaign to purge women out of the video games industry will find their bull is no longer being taken as truth:

    http://i.imgur.com/k9bLSpG.png

    When ABC in America tried to spin that type of rhetoric a few months ago, it landed them ONE OF THE LOWEST RATED YOUTUBE VIDEOS SINCE ITS INCEPTION! No mean feat.

    Let's take the word of an.... independent game developer who knows the industry and has done his research on the issue at hand:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BS2V9pnbHM

    The only people who are being disruptive are those who have a vested interest to paint GamerGate as a hate group for their own profit and gain whether through playing the victim card via Patreon, hoping discussion of ethics in games journalism will be censored or at best, moved aside so it can be kept out of the public eye. In the hope that things will quieten down so they can resume their unethical and profitable conflicts of interest. Sadly for those who hope that GamerGate will just go away are finding out now that it isn't going to go away. My advice to those who find such talk of ethics and reform uncomfortable would be to come to peace with it.
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    Kyle_T wrote: »
    Why does someone else's opinion on computer games bother you so much? Video games are just dumb escapism 99% of the time and if you take any of these "journalists" seriously then you are a mug. We live in an internet age where reviewing games is no longer the sole domain of big companies. They should be utterly irrelevant by now.
    I don't know if you are rich enough to buy every single game and all the hours to spare so you don't need experts with a unbiased eye, but I am not. I, like most people have both limited time and money to spend because I work to earn a meagre amount of money to live and play the occasional video game. What I would like are for people without bias or an agenda giving me true, accurate and expert advice on how best to spend my limited amount of time and cash. If someone has a conflict of interest, they should ideally not be involved with the reporting for that game or at the very least, provide full disclosure. At every workplace you go to, failing to disclose a conflict of interest can be seen as gross misconduct which leads to summary dismissal.

    While only 3% of people make a decision to buy a game via journalist outlets (source, page 12), it is still important (and that includes video reviews, lets plays and so forth) for the principles of ethics, full disclosure and avoiding conflict of interest to be a critical and central role in not just journalists or video bloggers, but anyone who works for any company.
  • MC_SatanMC_Satan Posts: 26,512
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    Starpuss wrote: »
    Someone might even suggest it's in their own best interests to keep the debate going :o like these rubbishy celebrity blogs that post increasingly bizarre things about Z-list nobodies to attract readers. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ^_^

    Pretty much. Most involved are sub z listers in their little world with delusions of self importance. I mean look at their names Zargos of Argos and other ridiculously created monikers. Pompous , self important fools the lot of them.
  • FIN-MANFIN-MAN Posts: 1,598
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    I thought gamergate was about **** shaming?

    It never was. I have never heard Kim Kardashian's name brought up once during this gamergate fiasco.
  • Kyle_TKyle_T Posts: 1,001
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    I don't know if you are rich enough to buy every single game and all the hours to spare so you don't need experts with a unbiased eye, but I am not. I, like most people have both limited time and money to spend because I work to earn a meagre amount of money to live and play the occasional video game. What I would like are for people without bias or an agenda giving me true, accurate and expert advice on how best to spend my limited amount of time and cash. If someone has a conflict of interest, they should ideally not be involved with the reporting for that game or at the very least, provide full disclosure. At every workplace you go to, failing to disclose a conflict of interest can be seen as gross misconduct which leads to summary dismissal.

    While only 3% of people make a decision to buy a game via journalist outlets (source, page 12), it is still important (and that includes video reviews, lets plays and so forth) for the principles of ethics, full disclosure and avoiding conflict of interest to be a critical and central role in not just journalists or video bloggers, but anyone who works for any company.

    No, I'm not rich. Luckily you don't need to be rich to have a look on metacritic or look up some footage on Youtube.

    Also 3%? Wow. This thing is even more blown out of proportion than I thought it was. I haven't even heard of any corruption being tackled. Just nonsense about "SJWs" and "someone said something mean on a blog so let's harass them". We're not exactly talking Watergate here, are we.
  • NefratiNefrati Posts: 558
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    RECAP: #GamerGate DOUBLE WEEK Summary May 16th-29th
    Qu Qu
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUXDd4_VMCA

    [News] WTF is up with Randi Harper, Anne Rice, and #LestatGate?
    MundaneMatt
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzjL99fesMk

    #GamerGate: Anne Rice VS Randi Harper
    Video Culture Replay Blog
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsIpv0-hnjA
    http://theralphretort.com/news-sjws-call-rice-a-cyberterrorist-guardian-doesnt-pay-milo-taunts-anita-602015/


    Randi Harper really stuck her foot in it, she attacked Anne Rice
    https://www.facebook.com/annericefanpage/posts/10153421093615452
    https://archive.is/pTcLE
    https://www.facebook.com/annericefanpage/posts/10153423037400452#
    https://archive.is/ACxWW
    https://twitter.com/AnneRiceAuthor/status/605422411744460800
    https://twitter.com/AnneRiceAuthor/status/605803197324599298

    Hatred comes out as a top seller on steam upon release... not quite as shocking as the sjw media claimed it would be.
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/06/01/how-the-latest-ultra-violent-video-game-proves-the-law-of-heckle-shekels/

    Harmful Glance At... - Hatred [Level 1 Highlights]
    Harmful Opinions
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qtej1D_rexY

    WTF Is... - Hatred ? [strong language]
    TotalBiscuit, The Cynical Brit
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWKSopTFf2U

    I will now talk about violence and video game narratives for just under 30 mins.
    TotalBiscuit, The Cynical Brit
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXsE-Zwb_j4


    Comedian Aaron Pabon hints at support
    http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1smg1is


    Diggers have found twitter clique affiliated "bots" being used against gamergate
    http://pressfarttocontinue.com/2015/06/03/twitter-bot-army-the-story-of-botally/
    If you've watched ex machina, well the turing test isn't that hard to beat on a twitter level, especially when it comes to

    simple troll posts, so its no surprise propagandists have been up to no good using technology.


    Wise words of Marilyn Manson so long ago from the bowling for columbine doc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiaxzBlFgmQ


    and steam offers refunds

    Harmful Opinion - Steam Offers Refunds
    Harmful Opinions
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC7EZWzNKI8

    leading to some rather strange complaints from the sjw's. I thought since they rejected the "bad people" the "gamers" now

    they were free to cater to the good people, the hipsters, the indie clique fans...but no, their very own words betray

    their very low opinion of their own kind. They can't trust their own people not to steal from them...
    https://twitter.com/pocahontasphnx/status/605861594157883394
    https://archive.is/r51qK
    https://archive.is/ZP9zb

    And Forbes finally writes something critical of Sarkeesian
    Why Feminist Frequency Is Dead Wrong About 'The Witcher 3' [Updated]
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/05/31/why-feminist-frequency-is-dead-wrong-about-the-witcher-3/

    Feminist Frequency and The Witcher 3
    https://medium.com/@adrianchm/feminist-frequency-and-the-witcher-3-6b126d3d6206


    From an Indie Game Dev: Why I'm in #GamerGate
    GameDiviner
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BS2V9pnbHM



    TRIGGER WARNING! Mister Metokur: Crazy Social Justice Warriors, Feminist, Rape Culture Hysteria
    Eddy Baller
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCwFyIQhsaw


    Co-Opted? Trans Community Stream
    MisterMetokur
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4uMLe_XJe4



    Tea and Pretzels Podcast
    Maroon Five
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB8cZJl0QCE



    Why Do Men Love the Fighting Barbie? (reup)
    Davis M.J. Aurini
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9JnFAqzMkk


    I'm A #gamergate Poet And Didn't Realize It To Be True
    The Justicar
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lf3bzzC1GA

    TL;DR - Elisa Chavez Doesn't Understand #Gamergate
    TL;DR
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j-7CcZ5Lyc


    and on free speech and social platforms...
    Milo Yiannopoulos live with Charles C Johnson
    Milo Yiannopoulos
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBQfe5t7PZk


    Hitchen's always good on the issue of free speech
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyoOfRog1EM



    I'm a gamer and it's the biggest non story going.

    I watch Twitch for several hours a day, a platform where gamers stream and chat rooms that are full of gamers.. and no one

    talks about it. No one refers to it. No one cares. And that includes female streamers as well as male.. of which there are

    plenty.

    This entire scandal seems to exist in it's own little sub world of the gaming world.. and at best seems to be a method for

    vloggers to rack up hits on YouTube. It's only a big deal to those who want it to be a big deal. Everyone else is just

    getting on with... playing games.

    People are deathly afraid of bringing it up.

    Such are "non stories"

    That or they deliberately bury the issue.... its not what is done with actual "non stories".

    When there is such repression and fear, there is a story.
    Kyle_T wrote: »
    No, I'm not rich. Luckily you don't need to be rich to have a look on metacritic or look up some

    footage on Youtube.

    Also 3%? Wow. This thing is even more blown out of proportion than I thought it was. I haven't even heard of any

    corruption being tackled. Just nonsense about "SJWs" and "someone said something mean on a blog so let's harass them".

    We're not exactly talking Watergate here, are we.

    Sjw's are by their very nature a corrupt ideology. With them the ends always justifies the means, which is why the truth

    so often is not a factor for these people.

    While numbers are trickling out on just how much power these people are losing, that kind of is the point, and the story.

    But whether we like it or not they still hold disproportionate power, and control the media outlets, which leads to things

    like the corruption of wikipedia articles and the mainstream media narrative.

    “Social Justice” is Not Justice at All
    http://www.everyjoe.com/2015/06/01/politics/social-justice-not-justice-at-all/#1
  • Kyle_TKyle_T Posts: 1,001
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    Nefrati wrote: »



    Sjw's are by their very nature a corrupt ideology. With them the ends always justifies the means, which is why the truth

    so often is not a factor for these people.

    While numbers are trickling out on just how much power these people are losing, that kind of is the point, and the story.

    But whether we like it or not they still hold disproportionate power, and control the media outlets, which leads to things

    like the corruption of wikipedia articles and the mainstream media narrative.

    “Social Justice” is Not Justice at All
    http://www.everyjoe.com/2015/06/01/politics/social-justice-not-justice-at-all/#1

    ........are you some kind of bot?
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    el_bardos wrote: »
    Such people exist. They're called your mates. Or failing that, fellow gamers who tolerate your whining.
    GamerGate has been the best thing to ever happen to me in Twitter by a country mile.
    Kyle_T wrote: »
    No, I'm not rich. Luckily you don't need to be rich to have a look on metacritic or look up some footage on Youtube.

    Also 3%? Wow. This thing is even more blown out of proportion than I thought it was. I haven't even heard of any corruption being tackled. Just nonsense about "SJWs" and "someone said something mean on a blog so let's harass them". We're not exactly talking Watergate here, are we.
    For that to be true, you'd have to ignore the utter contempt for the consumer shown by some quarters, censorship of discussion, the mainstream media coverage despite the vast majority of that being bull and if levelled at an individual, would be libel, the documented numerous allegations of unethical behaviour, progressive ideology which is anything but progressive and bullying plus intimidation of anyone who dares to call out GG opponents.

    http://deepfreeze.it - if you wish to see a catalogue of unethical behaviour, conflicts of interest and failure to disclose ties with developers, may I suggest this link as a form of education.

    I don't know whether to be fearful or pitiful of your disregard and/or naiveté toward ethical behaviour.
  • tghe-retfordtghe-retford Posts: 26,449
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    Nefrati wrote: »
    I think situations like with Anne Rice exposing the main protagonists who are against GamerGate (though she does not refer to GG as such) as for who they are only helps expose what is behind a harmful and damaging ideology not just in video games but also across society to a wide audience. The same people who help support and collude with corrupt and unethical journalists because of their shared ideology.

    The people who are worried and wish for all this to go away at best, censor it at worst (as Ars Technica repeated today) are nervous and worried about what is going to happen because their narrative is crumbling, their ideology has been exposed to public scrunity and GG now has the attention of the journalism organisation at the centre of ethics in the United States to bring forth positive discussion and progress.
  • Skyclaw726Skyclaw726 Posts: 2,931
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    Kyle_T wrote: »
    ........are you some kind of bot?

    No he's someone who cares about gaming.
  • Alvar HansoAlvar Hanso Posts: 2,542
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    gamergate is being discussed on digital spy :o
  • stoatiestoatie Posts: 78,106
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    Skyclaw726 wrote: »
    No he's someone who cares about gaming.

    If he's watching all Nefrati's links I'm amazed he has the time. Nine hours of YT links in that last post.
  • reglipreglip Posts: 5,268
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    stoatie wrote: »
    If he's watching all Nefrati's links I'm amazed he has the time. Nine hours of YT links in that last post.

    lol they certainly are comprehensive. But kudos to him for going to the time. No one is forced to read or click
  • InspirationInspiration Posts: 62,694
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    Nefrati wrote: »
    People are deathly afraid of bringing it up.

    I've never really got that impression. People have talked about it but move on because whilst it's entertaining for a day or two it's ultimately pointless. I've never felt like the female gamers I know of are being repressed or are unable to put their point of view across. And I know some very vocal ones.

    Are you the user who posts the same links/descriptions on AnandTech Forums or do you copy & paste their posts here?
This discussion has been closed.