Game of Thrones season 1 - SPOILERS, for those who have read *all the books*

Some of the lucky souls who are experiencing the story for the first time are complaining - quite fairly - about spoilers in the non-spoiler thread. For those who have read the books, it's all too easy to drop spoilers in inadvertently. It would also be great to discuss the show from the perspective of those familiar with the source material. If you want to talk about future books, or events that have not yet been shown this season, this is the place to do it.

I have a question for those who have read the books more recently than me. I like the hints about Dany being able to withstand heat (the hot bath, picking up the eggs), and Viserys, um, not. But were these in the books at all? The only moment like that I can remember is Dany walking through the fire with the dragons at the end of the first book, and I thought that was more of a one-off mystical moment.
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,442
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    So is this thread only going to be talking about the first book? Or are people going to be talking about the other books? As I have only read the first and don't want it spoilt so I know not to come in here :)
  • nainznainz Posts: 1,777
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    A question for somebody who has read all the books so far and understands the pre series times line...

    Big spoiler ahead...
    if the R + L = J theory is correct is J still a bastard or did R's wife die before him, thus giving time for a marriage between R + L

    If J is still a bastard would he have any claim to the throne?

    Thanks in advance.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 135
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    Nainz the answer to your question is unclear as we simply do not have any infomation yet on whether there was a marriage or not. Targaryens could have more than one wife so its possible Jon is legitimate

    Edit the above spoiler is answering nainz's question.

    Badcompany I think we have to have this thread open to spoilers from all the books otherwise we would need seperate threads for each book/season.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,442
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    Ratman81 wrote: »
    Nainz the answer to your question is unclear as we simply do not have any infomation yet on whether there was a marriage or not. Targaryens could have more than one wife so its possible Jon is legitimate

    Edit the above spoiler is answering nainz's question.

    Badcompany I think we have to have this thread open to spoilers from all the books otherwise we would need seperate threads for each book/season.

    Cheers best keep out for a few weeks until I have read them all then :D:D
  • Wendy KroyWendy Kroy Posts: 164
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    Yes, I think we should be free to talk about all the books here.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 156
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    I think we should keep using spoiler tags, just in case a non-reader comes here by accident....
    Ratman81 wrote: »
    Nainz the answer to your question is unclear as we simply do not have any infomation yet on whether there was a marriage or not. Targaryens could have more than one wife so its possible Jon is legitimate

    Ratman, your answer to nainz is not quite right:
    Rhaegar was married at the time, to Elia of Dorne. She was still alive at the time of Rhaegar's death. So if R+L=J, Jon cannot be legitimate. But he'd still have some claim to the throne.

    Edit: Polygamy was theoretically practiced by the Targaryens, but popular opinion was so against it that it was a practical impossibility after the dragons died. The religion of Westeros is against it to such an extent that Jon would be illegitimate even if Lyanna and Rhaegar were "married".
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 156
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    Wendy Kroy wrote: »
    I have a question for those who have read the books more recently than me. I like the hints about Dany being able to withstand heat (the hot bath, picking up the eggs), and Viserys, um, not. But were these in the books at all?

    It's more subtle in the books, but she does love her hot baths.

    “The water was scalding hot, but Daenerys did not flinch or cry out. She liked the heat. It made her feel clean.”
    whether or not she'd be able to walk through fire again is, I think, open to question.

    P.S. I think you should put spoiler tags around the end of your opening post there, that's a major one for someone to stumble on, even if this is the book thread.
  • Wendy KroyWendy Kroy Posts: 164
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    P.S. I think you should put spoiler tags around the end of your opening post there, that's a major one for someone to stumble on, even if this is the book thread.

    Fair point, but it's too late to edit now unfortunately.
  • Gott Sei DankGott Sei Dank Posts: 114
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    Although I haven't read the books I wanted to thank the op Wendy Kroy for her consideration, this is a problem I experienced with the True Blood threads which I don't bother with now. Even though direct spoilers are rare and inadvertent the constant chatter around the books often leads to parallel threads within a thread in spoiler tags which is slightly annoying but it is the fact that people can no longer follow the process of watch, comment and then speculate on equal footing which I found infuriating.
  • roger_50roger_50 Posts: 6,896
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    Good job on the new thread. Perhaps could have done with it a few weeks ago, but it's here now.

    As someone who's read the books, my overall opinion of the show so far is that it's successful in some ways, especially in terms of it being quite faithful to the books (generally speaking), but has failed in others - in particular its overall qualities as a TV show. I'll elaborate more on that a bit more later.
  • Wendy KroyWendy Kroy Posts: 164
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    I'm looking forward to the reaction in the no-spoiler thread when
    Ned loses his head.

    That was when it really hit home to me that this was no ordinary fantasy series. I wonder if we'll get as far as the
    Red Wedding

    and how people will react to that - one of the most shocking events I've read.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 628
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    I think we should keep using spoiler tags, just in case a non-reader comes here by accident....



    Ratman, your answer to nainz is not quite right:
    Rhaegar was married at the time, to Elia of Dorne. She was still alive at the time of Rhaegar's death. So if R+L=J, Jon cannot be legitimate. But he'd still have some claim to the throne.

    Edit: Polygamy was theoretically practiced by the Targaryens, but popular opinion was so against it that it was a practical impossibility after the dragons died. The religion of Westeros is against it to such an extent that Jon would be illegitimate even if Lyanna and Rhaegar were "married".
    Like you said, there is a precedent for polygamy (like Aegon the Conqueror and his two sisters) but I don't really think legitimacy would really be a big issue if it was true - Jon could easily be legitimised, as Stannis tried to do, so I don't think it would ultimately matter too much.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 628
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    Wendy Kroy wrote: »
    I'm looking forward to the reaction in the no-spoiler thread when
    Ned loses his head.

    That was when it really hit home to me that this was no ordinary fantasy series. I wonder if we'll get as far as the
    Red Wedding

    and how people will react to that - one of the most shocking events I've read.

    I can't wait to see
    the Red Wedding, although I think it'll be extremely hard to watch. It was hard to read, and I couldn't quite believe it.

    I hope we get to see all the books on screen, hopefully GRRM will finish them in time!
  • max99max99 Posts: 9,002
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    Wendy Kroy wrote: »
    That was when it really hit home to me that this was no ordinary fantasy series. I wonder if we'll get as far as the
    Red Wedding

    and how people will react to that - one of the most shocking events I've read.

    I think that's the part (and the reaction) which we're all looking forward to seeing. Undoubtedly one of the biggest '**** me!' moments I've ever read. Just imagine seeing it unfold on screen. It'll be a crime if the show doesn't make it that far.
  • Matt DMatt D Posts: 13,153
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    I think that it should be clear which book is being talked about when book spoilers are posted, so people know if it's safe or not to reveal them.
    nainz wrote: »
    A question for somebody who has read all the books so far and understands the pre series times line...

    Big spoiler ahead...
    if the R + L = J theory is correct is J still a bastard or did R's wife die before him, thus giving time for a marriage between R + L

    If J is still a bastard would he have any claim to the throne?

    Thanks in advance.

    Ooh, I've not seen that theory before.
    It would certainly be one reason why Ned never talked of John's origins, and could explain the promise he made his sister.

    As for the question... I think a bastard needs to be "legitimised" to have any claim, e.g. when Robb said he was going to official make Jon his heir.
    Wendy Kroy wrote: »
    I'm looking forward to the reaction in the no-spoiler thread when
    Ned loses his head.

    That was when it really hit home to me that this was no ordinary fantasy series. I wonder if we'll get as far as the
    Red Wedding

    and how people will react to that - one of the most shocking events I've read.

    No. 1 (Book One: A Game of Thrones spoiler):
    Oh yeah. That was the big shock for me when I read the first book a few weeks ago. I really wasn't expecting him to be killed off like that. I can certainly see many in the other threads being very shocked at the loss of not just a main character, but a big name cast member too.



    No. 2 (Book Three: A Storm of Swords spoiler (part 2, Blood & Gold):
    I'm on A Storm of Swords part two at the moment, and read the Red Wedding last night. Really, really, really shocking. Far more than Ned's death, etc. Robb & Cat, and so many others... Is GRRM some kind of sadist, to treat the Starks like that?! What now for House Stark and the North :(
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 156
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    Like you said, there is a precedent for polygamy (like Aegon the Conqueror and his two sisters) but I don't really think legitimacy would really be a big issue if it was true - Jon could easily be legitimised, as Stannis tried to do, so I don't think it would ultimately matter too much.

    Well yes, legitimacy is merely a veneer over "who has the biggest army?" :p
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,105
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    I don't think you should have to put spoiler tags in a thread that says SPOILERS in the title... or else how's it different from the other thread?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,105
    Forum Member
    Wendy Kroy wrote: »
    I have a question for those who have read the books more recently than me. I like the hints about Dany being able to withstand heat (the hot bath, picking up the eggs), and Viserys, um, not. But were these in the books at all? The only moment like that I can remember is Dany walking through the fire with the dragons at the end of the first book, and I thought that was more of a one-off mystical moment.

    While the novels seem to be mainly books about people with some fantasy chucked in, in the tv adaptation, it seems they've gone out of their way to increase the fantasy content in general. Which makes sense I guess.

    Although, maybe I just have a different perspective. In the other thread a lot of people have been saying the direwolves need to be around a lot more, because they're important, presumably as part of the fantasy portion of the tale.

    It would be nice to have them around, and they're certainly symbolic of the fates of the Starks, but I don't exactly consider them to be central to the tale. Perhaps Nymeria and Ghost will end up being as significant as Dany's dragons, but do the other wolves need screen time? Probably not.
  • Gaz22Gaz22 Posts: 18,952
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    It would be interesting:
    If Jon was legitimised by Stannis/Robb's message he'd theoretically have more of a cliam than Dany for the iron throne. Firstly because he is Rhaegar's son, and secondly, because I'm pretty sure the Targaryens never had Dorne styled queens. I might be wrong but there has only been kings in their line, right?

    Still, I suppose the dragons would tip the balance if it got that far and Dany really wanted the throne. :D
  • max99max99 Posts: 9,002
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    I don't think you should have to put spoiler tags in a thread that says SPOILERS in the title... or else how's it different from the other thread?

    The thread is already starting to look ridiculous with so many spoiler tags.

    As per the title, it should be a thread for people who've read all the books and is obviously going to contain spoilers.
  • Matt DMatt D Posts: 13,153
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    I don't think you should have to put spoiler tags in a thread that says SPOILERS in the title... or else how's it different from the other thread?

    Not everyone will have read all of the books. tags are still needed in case e.g. someone who's read all of the books posts something about A Feast For Crows or A Storm of Swords which is then seen by someone who has only read A Game of Thrones, or A Game of Thrones plus A Clash of Kings.

    e.g., If I had only read the first two books, and came in here to find an untagged spoiler from Book 3 discussing
    the Red Wedding
    in detail, I'd be rather pissed off!
    While the novels seem to be mainly books about people with some fantasy chucked in, in the tv adaptation, it seems they've gone out of their way to increase the fantasy content in general. Which makes sense I guess.

    Although, maybe I just have a different perspective. In the other thread a lot of people have been saying the direwolves need to be around a lot more, because they're important, presumably as part of the fantasy portion of the tale.

    It would be nice to have them around, and they're certainly symbolic of the fates of the Starks, but I don't exactly consider them to be central to the tale. Perhaps Nymeria and Ghost will end up being as significant as Dany's dragons, but do the other wolves need screen time? Probably not.

    I think they do...

    e.g. Spoilers up to book 3
    Jon and Bran are both wargs. Their direwolves are very important, and need to be shown. Robb doesn't seem to have the same sort of link with Grey Wind as Bran & Jon have with Summer and Ghost, but his direwolf is still important IMO.
    Gaz22 wrote: »
    It would be interesting:
    If Jon was legitimised by Stannis/Robb's message he'd theoretically have more of a cliam than Dany for the iron throne. Firstly because he is Rhaegar's son, and secondly, because I'm pretty sure the Targaryens never had Dorne styled queens. I might be wrong but there has only been kings in their line, right?

    Still, I suppose the dragons would tip the balance if it got that far and Dany really wanted the throne. :D

    Which book does that relate to? Tags are no use without some sort of label to let people know if they're safe to read or not :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,105
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    Gaz22 wrote: »
    It would be interesting:
    If Jon was legitimised by Stannis/Robb's message he'd theoretically have more of a cliam than Dany for the iron throne. Firstly because he is Rhaegar's son, and secondly, because I'm pretty sure the Targaryens never had Dorne styled queens. I might be wrong but there has only been kings in their line, right?

    Still, I suppose the dragons would tip the balance if it got that far and Dany really wanted the throne. :D

    The first Targaryen Queen Regnant would have been Rhaenyra. It was that dispute over succession that led to the Blackfyre Rebellion that caused war in the family. If history is to be repeated, it might mean a showdown between Jon (Ice) and Daenerys (Fire).

    Or perhaps it will mean that Westeros is eventually divided up again. I could see Jon, Dany and Tyrion being at the heads of those divided kingdoms.
  • Matt DMatt D Posts: 13,153
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    max99 wrote: »
    The thread is already starting to look ridiculous with so many spoiler tags.

    As per the title, it should be a thread for people who've read all the books and is obviously going to contain spoilers.



    If we're going to have open discussion of all the books, with no tags, then it needs to be clear that's what the thread is about, and the title needs to be changed so it's obvious to people that they risk seeing things from all of them in here.
  • max99max99 Posts: 9,002
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    Matt D wrote: »
    If we're going to have open discussion of all the books, with no tags, then it needs to be clear that's what the thread is about, and the title needs to be changed so it's obvious to people that they risk seeing things from all of them in here.

    But the title is obvious. The first post makes it even more obvious.

    There's only so much you can do to protect the people who click on things without thinking. Creating a thread specifically for people who've read the books, should be enough.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,105
    Forum Member
    max99 wrote: »
    The thread is already starting to look ridiculous with so many spoiler tags.

    As per the title, it should be a thread for people who've read all the books and is obviously going to contain spoilers.

    Agree... I mean, the OP says right from the start its for people who've read the books (plural) and states spoilers in the title. That means spoilers are okay. That's Digital Spy policy too according to the sticky, right? I really do not see the point of having a different thread with a load of spoiler tags all over it, personally...

    If we have to watch what we say there and watch what we say here, where can we talk about it freely?
    Matt D wrote: »
    Jon and Bran are both wargs. Their direwolves are very important, and need to be shown. Robb doesn't seem to have the same sort of link with Grey Wind as Bran & Jon have with Summer and Ghost, but his direwolf is still important IMO.

    Oh yeah, forgot about Bran and Summer's link. :) I think maybe Arya could have the latent ability too. Doesn't she have dreams of Nymeria running around with a great pack of regular wolves? Or was that just rumours? Been a long time... I've forgotten. :p
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