One of the things I noticed in my last workplace was that people didn't hold doors for others. Now I get that people are busy, but if I see or hear people heading in my direction when I'm at a door I will wait and hold the door open-for anyone. and i will stand there with a pathetic cheery smile on my face!
I thought it was just plain rudeness when I could be 10paces behind someone and they just walk through the door, meaning the lock had to reset itself (smart card access) before you could open the door again.
A recurring theme in online conversations about sexism/misogyny/misandry/feminism is door holding. Men and women who consider door holding an important part of etiquette, men who had a woman accuse them of 'disempowering' her by holding the door, then say they won't hold doors for women anymore. What is this issue about?
I can understand that it would have been a big deal way back, when men were expected to actually run out of their way to open a door some weak damsel was approaching, in the days when chivalry was more pronounced (or maybe doors were just heavier?)
But these days it's just basic manners for everyone isn't it? You walk through a shop door, and you hold it open for the next person behind you. It's barely even worthy of a thank you, almost no effort exerted whatsoever, but the way some men (and women) go on, you'd think it was the absolute ultimate in chivalry - when a man does it.
It's on my mind because I held a door open for a courier who was a way behind me but I could see he had his hands full. He didn't say thank you, and as I'd let him walk in ahead of me I had to wait while the receptionist signed for everything. I just decided he was a rude person, I didn't evaluate my whole door-holding policy towards men. So why is it a big deal when it's a man holding the door for a woman?
so many boring idiots on this planet i came across this thread
pathetic
Basic good manners tend to mean holding doors open to the person behind you, irrespective of age or gender.
30 years ago - it may have been a feminist issue - but that has surely passed. In fact, I am endlessly amused by the gender politics of older men when it comes to revolving doors. They will always insist a woman goes first, despite the fact that some of the doors need the strength of Samson to get moving - or maybe - that is their revenge .
Yeah, I hold doors open for people regardless of gender, and I don't believe all these stories about women shouting at men for holding the door for them. Not unless they've said something sexist at the same time!
Its not really holding the door open after you have walked through that's the issue, its when you hold the door open and stand aside to let the woman walk through first.
Either way there is nothing sexist if you hold the door open for everyone regardless of gender.
Yes, we're talking about two different things, aren't we? 1: When someone walks through a door then holds it open for the person coming behind them. No-one has a problem with that, surely. 2: When someone comes up to a door, then holds it open for the person behind to walk through first. As a bloke I am mildly irritated by anyone doing this for me. Doesn't stop me from saying a cheery 'thank you', though.
I still do it and will continue to do it, even though we live in a culture that means less and less women are worth doing it for.
And this is the kind of attitude that makes some women hate it. Do you not hold doors open for men, or do you just assume they're always "worth doing it for"?
Holding the door open for someone is just basic manners IMO. I think it's so damn rude when you see people walk through a door and let it go again in the face of someone who's right behind them. Generally speaking the older generations do seem to have good manners instilled in them more so than many younger people.
I was in a pub a couple of weekends ago and a man who was probably in his 60s came out of the men's toilets at the same time as I came out the ladies. We both walked towards the door that leads back into the pub and as we got closer he sped up his pace so he'd reach the door before me and could hold it open for me. I think it's nice when men do things like that.
Indeed. What's hard to understand? I'll hold the door open for anyone who is just behind me - although I will make extra effort if they are elderly, have a push chair or carrying something etc.
The problem is that common courtesy isn't that common these days. People live in their own little bubble where they think they are the only one who matters.
I hold the door open for anyone man, woman or child its manners and its not nice if a door is slammed in someones face Its another way to talk to people as most will say thank you give you a nod or a smile.
Yes, it is basic manners and yes, it does take hardly any effort.
That's why I hold doors open for people regardless of their gender and why I honestly don't worry when other people don't reciprocate.
Course, when somebody tries to suggest that a lack of such basic manners is actually some kind of feminist statement, it seems a bit petty.
I don't really get why the people (both men and women) don't seem to consider that they've simply happened across somebody with good manners rather than making a big fuss about it on the assumption that it's something sexist.
Agree with this. I hold doors for people regardless of gender, and certainly don't think it's sexist.
You hold a door open like when you let a car out of a side road when driving you expect an acknowledgement of the fact, you don not do it looking for a thank you but as someone who would not dream of not thanking someone for holding the door for them I expect others to behave in a like minded way as I would.
Sadly the world in my opinion is a less gracious place than it used to be, does not stop me shouting THANK YOU to someone who fails to say thanks in that situation & many people look suitably embarrassed which shows many know its the right thing to do its just attitudes have changed, does not make it right though does it.
These days, just basic good manners - as is saying Thankyou, of course.
I'm old enough to remember when it was a sign of male/female courtesy, the same as men walking on the outside of the pavement. Believe me, it didn't disempower me for a second! It's just what men of good breeding did.
I returned to Further Education in my late 30s and was amused - and irritated - by the numbers of slightly younger men who seemed to make a fetish of NOT holding doors open for me (or any other female) as mark of how liberated they themselves were. I'd spent some years working with ex-army types (NCOs), who were rough as a badger's whatsit between themselves but would sooner bite their tongues out than swear in front of me or fail to hold open a door for me. It seemed odd that the younger, "educated" class swore like fakery and swung doors in my face on a regular basis to prove my equality to their satisfaction.
I always open doors for people,it's the way i was brought up,it's upto the person i guess but manners have always been something i've made sure i've always kept as i've grown up.
I'd spent some years working with ex-army types (NCOs), who were rough as a badger's whatsit between themselves but would sooner bite their tongues out than swear in front of me or fail to hold open a door for me.
I'm happy to have doors held open for me, because I think that's basic manners, regardless of gender, but I do find it quite archaic and insulting that somehow a woman's ears are too sensitive to hear swear words.
I've worked a lot in male dominated environments, and the men who don't have a nervous breakdown when they realised they've sworn in front of a woman are invariably the ones who treat you with more respect in general.
Back to doors. I instinctively check to see if there is someone behind me, and will hold the door open if there is. I don't think about gender, and would expect the same in return - regardless of gender. It's more of a dilemma if you'd have to stand there and keep a door open, which can pressure a person into rushing. I'm not convinced that's doing anyone any favours.
Other factors are if the door is particularly heavy, or at work when it's a security door that would lock behind me. I'm also much more likely to wait holding a door open if a person is carrying things, pushing a buggy or is elderly (especially when the doors are heavy).
Women are more likely to be pushing buggies, but beyond that, gender doesn't come into it.
...and I don't believe all these stories about women shouting at men for holding the door for them. Not unless they've said something sexist at the same time!
FWIW, I dunno how common it is but you do get 'em.
I was at college with a girl who used to make a big fuss about this sort of stuff and justify it all as "feminism".
At the risk of sounding spiteful, I think the truth was that she was just a bit of a munter and she was pissed-off that other girls got attention that she didn't.
She seemed to spend most of her time being resentful of other girls and then, when a guy did pay her some attention, she probably thought it'd be hypocritical to act grateful.
I recall, on one occasion, we were doing stuff with lathes and had to swap the chucks on them and the teacher suggested that any of the girls who couldn't lift the chuck "get a guy to help them", which the rest of the girls (both of them) happily did.
This girl refused any assistance and then had a big rant about how lathes were obviously designed by men to deliberately be so heavy that a woman wouldn't have an equal opportunity to make use of them. :rolleyes:
In central London I tend to find the people that don't hold doors open are foreigners and tourists - so I guess its a cultural thing here in the UK. Deep down we are a pretty polite and consider nation!
I really don't understand how this became such a contentious issue in the first place. Aren't there more worthwhile issues to get angry about?
It's just an act of politeness, courtesy, and respect.
What a shitty society we would be living in if when everyone went through a door with somebody behind them they just let the door shut in their face.:D
What miserable sods are people becoming to complain over something like this which is meant as an act of goodwill to somebody else?
What next, a friendly smile is bad because it might have sinister motives behind it?
If there's someone close behind me I'll hold a door open for them, Once or twice I have been told off by women for doing this, In no way do I intend any disrespect my mother brought me up to be courteous and polite to other people.
In central London I tend to find the people that don't hold doors open are foreigners and tourists - so I guess its a cultural thing here in the UK. Deep down we are a pretty polite and consider nation!
I disagree , when I lived in Berlin they were very courteous and always held the door and still do.They are always quick to help lift a buggy onto the bus or trains .I have seen it in Paris, Rome and all over .In Ireland its common courtesy too , its by no means a UK thing at all .Deep down many nations are polite too its not special to the British .
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I thought it was just plain rudeness when I could be 10paces behind someone and they just walk through the door, meaning the lock had to reset itself (smart card access) before you could open the door again.
so many boring idiots on this planet i came across this thread
pathetic
30 years ago - it may have been a feminist issue - but that has surely passed. In fact, I am endlessly amused by the gender politics of older men when it comes to revolving doors. They will always insist a woman goes first, despite the fact that some of the doors need the strength of Samson to get moving - or maybe - that is their revenge .
You can believe whatever you want to dear.
Yes, we're talking about two different things, aren't we? 1: When someone walks through a door then holds it open for the person coming behind them. No-one has a problem with that, surely. 2: When someone comes up to a door, then holds it open for the person behind to walk through first. As a bloke I am mildly irritated by anyone doing this for me. Doesn't stop me from saying a cheery 'thank you', though.
I was in a pub a couple of weekends ago and a man who was probably in his 60s came out of the men's toilets at the same time as I came out the ladies. We both walked towards the door that leads back into the pub and as we got closer he sped up his pace so he'd reach the door before me and could hold it open for me. I think it's nice when men do things like that.
Indeed. What's hard to understand? I'll hold the door open for anyone who is just behind me - although I will make extra effort if they are elderly, have a push chair or carrying something etc.
The problem is that common courtesy isn't that common these days. People live in their own little bubble where they think they are the only one who matters.
Agree with this. I hold doors for people regardless of gender, and certainly don't think it's sexist.
Sadly the world in my opinion is a less gracious place than it used to be, does not stop me shouting THANK YOU to someone who fails to say thanks in that situation & many people look suitably embarrassed which shows many know its the right thing to do its just attitudes have changed, does not make it right though does it.
I'm old enough to remember when it was a sign of male/female courtesy, the same as men walking on the outside of the pavement. Believe me, it didn't disempower me for a second! It's just what men of good breeding did.
I returned to Further Education in my late 30s and was amused - and irritated - by the numbers of slightly younger men who seemed to make a fetish of NOT holding doors open for me (or any other female) as mark of how liberated they themselves were. I'd spent some years working with ex-army types (NCOs), who were rough as a badger's whatsit between themselves but would sooner bite their tongues out than swear in front of me or fail to hold open a door for me. It seemed odd that the younger, "educated" class swore like fakery and swung doors in my face on a regular basis to prove my equality to their satisfaction.
What?
I've worked a lot in male dominated environments, and the men who don't have a nervous breakdown when they realised they've sworn in front of a woman are invariably the ones who treat you with more respect in general.
Back to doors. I instinctively check to see if there is someone behind me, and will hold the door open if there is. I don't think about gender, and would expect the same in return - regardless of gender. It's more of a dilemma if you'd have to stand there and keep a door open, which can pressure a person into rushing. I'm not convinced that's doing anyone any favours.
Other factors are if the door is particularly heavy, or at work when it's a security door that would lock behind me. I'm also much more likely to wait holding a door open if a person is carrying things, pushing a buggy or is elderly (especially when the doors are heavy).
Women are more likely to be pushing buggies, but beyond that, gender doesn't come into it.
FWIW, I dunno how common it is but you do get 'em.
I was at college with a girl who used to make a big fuss about this sort of stuff and justify it all as "feminism".
At the risk of sounding spiteful, I think the truth was that she was just a bit of a munter and she was pissed-off that other girls got attention that she didn't.
She seemed to spend most of her time being resentful of other girls and then, when a guy did pay her some attention, she probably thought it'd be hypocritical to act grateful.
I recall, on one occasion, we were doing stuff with lathes and had to swap the chucks on them and the teacher suggested that any of the girls who couldn't lift the chuck "get a guy to help them", which the rest of the girls (both of them) happily did.
This girl refused any assistance and then had a big rant about how lathes were obviously designed by men to deliberately be so heavy that a woman wouldn't have an equal opportunity to make use of them. :rolleyes:
It's just an act of politeness, courtesy, and respect.
What a shitty society we would be living in if when everyone went through a door with somebody behind them they just let the door shut in their face.:D
What miserable sods are people becoming to complain over something like this which is meant as an act of goodwill to somebody else?
What next, a friendly smile is bad because it might have sinister motives behind it?
I disagree , when I lived in Berlin they were very courteous and always held the door and still do.They are always quick to help lift a buggy onto the bus or trains .I have seen it in Paris, Rome and all over .In Ireland its common courtesy too , its by no means a UK thing at all .Deep down many nations are polite too its not special to the British .