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Is this how 999 emergency calls are handled?
Mike_1101
Posts: 8,012 Forum Member
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This relates to an incident that happened near my house this morning.
I was walking to a local shop when I walked past a man who was leaning against a garden wall, he asked me to call an ambulance as he had severe chest pains and thought he was having a heart attack. So I did what any reasonable person would have done, I dialled 999 and reached the emergency operator. I gave my details, location and nature of the emergency and explained it was not for me but for another person, someone I did not know and had never met previously. I described the symptoms when requested.
At this point the operator asked me for his name which I obtained from him and then
Is his skin turning pale? (it wasn't).
Who is his doctor?
Is he on medication?
what medication is he on?
What is the medication for?
Does he have the medication with him?
Does he have any other health conditions?
Who is his carer?
The questions seemed to last for ever.....
By this time the man was becoming more distressed and the I asked the operator why I was being asked these questions when it was an emergency and these details could be obtained later. I was told this was standard procedure, even though the man was clearly in distress and I could not answer the questions as I did not know him. The operator then asked me to feel the man's skin to see if it was cold and clammy and also to take his pulse. I refused to do this for the following reasons
- The man could have had a mental health condition and become potentially violent - I don't know how to diagnose psychiatric illness. Why should I be asked to put myself at risk of violence? People have attacked people trying to help them.
- If I had touched the man without his permission, is that not a definition of common assault under the law?
The operator then told me an ambulance was being despatched and it arrived within a few minutes. I briefly described the situation to the crew, they took the man inside the ambulance and I left the scene. I assume he would have been taken to the local A&E for appropriate treatment.
Is this how 999 ambulance calls are handled these days? I thought the aim was to get a crew to the scene as quickly as possible, trained people who know what to do. What was the point of the questions when I could not answer them?
What would other people have done?
I was walking to a local shop when I walked past a man who was leaning against a garden wall, he asked me to call an ambulance as he had severe chest pains and thought he was having a heart attack. So I did what any reasonable person would have done, I dialled 999 and reached the emergency operator. I gave my details, location and nature of the emergency and explained it was not for me but for another person, someone I did not know and had never met previously. I described the symptoms when requested.
At this point the operator asked me for his name which I obtained from him and then
Is his skin turning pale? (it wasn't).
Who is his doctor?
Is he on medication?
what medication is he on?
What is the medication for?
Does he have the medication with him?
Does he have any other health conditions?
Who is his carer?
The questions seemed to last for ever.....
By this time the man was becoming more distressed and the I asked the operator why I was being asked these questions when it was an emergency and these details could be obtained later. I was told this was standard procedure, even though the man was clearly in distress and I could not answer the questions as I did not know him. The operator then asked me to feel the man's skin to see if it was cold and clammy and also to take his pulse. I refused to do this for the following reasons
- The man could have had a mental health condition and become potentially violent - I don't know how to diagnose psychiatric illness. Why should I be asked to put myself at risk of violence? People have attacked people trying to help them.
- If I had touched the man without his permission, is that not a definition of common assault under the law?
The operator then told me an ambulance was being despatched and it arrived within a few minutes. I briefly described the situation to the crew, they took the man inside the ambulance and I left the scene. I assume he would have been taken to the local A&E for appropriate treatment.
Is this how 999 ambulance calls are handled these days? I thought the aim was to get a crew to the scene as quickly as possible, trained people who know what to do. What was the point of the questions when I could not answer them?
What would other people have done?
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Comments
The ambulance would have been despatched as soon as you made the call, the questions are been asked as the ambulance is en-route. Though you might not think that at the time.
You seem to have a lot of strange questions in your list. IMO there's nothing wrong with being asked to take their pulse and nobody in their right mind would do you for assault in that sort of circumstance.
As for taking his pulse, is that really a job for the untrained? I had already told them he had severe chest pains, symptoms of either a heart attack or angina.
Virtually anyone can at least attempt to take a pulse (neck, or wrist are both usually fairly easy to find)..
Finding or not finding a pulse can give indications as to heart rate, strength and regularity, which is handy.
Basically what they're trying to do is get as much information for the ambulance crew as possible before they arrive, so they don't have to potentially waste time getting it once there (the name of the patent and doctor for example can let them access certain medical records in theory, the medication gives the ambulance crew an idea of what might react badly and thus reduce the risk of making things worse).
They could have answering another call, on their way back etc
I would have thought the pulse thing was just to give them an idea more than getting a qualified diagnosis... I wouldn't have hesitated if that's the info they wanted.
Fair enough but I had never met this man before. On a previous occasion I was asked for directions by someone who then threatened me and tried to steal my mobile phone. How was I to know if the man was genuine or potentially violent?
I can't believe anyone would refuse to try and find a pulse but each to their own, you did the most important thing of calling for an ambulance so fair enough.
Sorry if I didn't make it clear. I would have tried to find a pulse if I had known the person. On this occasion I didn't and due to the previous mobile phone incident. I did not want to put myself at risk of violence. The man was standing up during the incident, although leaning against the wall. He was able to walk to the ambulance unaided.
You thought the man who was having a heart attack would get violent with you for asking/trying to take his pulse?
It could happen, I suppose...
The man was still conscious so asking him some of those questions (medication, doctor, previous heart conditions, etc.) could be vital especially if he had lapsed into unconsciousness by the time the ambulance had arrived.
Taking a pulse is not 'common assault' neither is doing CPR (if you know how to do it!!), or seeing if he feels cold or clammy - again vital info for the paramedics. What would you do if you came across an accident with someone bleeding severely? Stand and watch as they bled to death in front of your eyes because you were worried about 'common assault'? Sometimes all you can do is sit and hold someone's hand until help arrives, and that can be a great comfort.
I take your point about not knowing whether or not someone could be potentially violent but their actions you describe simply suggest someone needing emergency help. Ambulance control will work to a standard script in order to get as much information as possible to relay to the crew responding and, just occasionally to weed out the malicious calls.
No - he said he had chest pains, that could describe a heart attack, angina or possibly some other medical condition. As I said before, I didn't know him and after the mobile phone incident where the other individual threatened to pull out a knife, how was i supposed to know?
Having someone threaten to pull a knife out on you isn't nice - I hope it never happens to YOU.
Incidentally, the local newspaper published the picture of the person who tried to steal my phone, as a local "wanted criminals" feature. I contacted the police, gave them the incident number and the name. They never told me the outcome.
Jesus Wept, are you for real?
People have been accused of all kinds of things they haven't done. How I am supposed to predict the intentions of someone I don't know.?
I hope he is recovering from the heart attack, if that is what he had.
It actually has happened. The threat anyway, I never got to find out whether they actually had a knife or not.
And yes I understand it makes you wary and worried when dealing with strangers. However, I am just not convinced this would extend to a man having chest pains who is asking me to call an ambulance. I suppose it would depend on his body language and whether he was already being threatening. I know I would do my best to take a pulse if that is what the paramedics wanted to know. I am a Healthcare Professional but I don't think that is why I feel this way.
In that situation i would have tried to stop the bleeding, as most normal people would.
But you felt confident enough to approach the man, engage with him and determine he wanted an ambulance called. Surely if you were in fear of violence you'd have crossed the road and kept walking.
Fair point, the man was very probably genuine, as a healthcare professional you will know yourself that there are an awful lot of mentally unstable and unbalanced people around, it's not immediately obvious who they are.
I did, at the same time I did not get too close to him - about 12 feet. it happened in a quiet street and there was nobody else about.
Is this a wind up thread?
I'm puzzled as to why you were puzzled at the way the 999 call went, you do realise it's not the person on the phone who is personally coming out to help you so they can therefore then ask additional information etc. while the people who are helping make their way there.
As a female who has been mugged 3 times I wouldn't think twice about helping someone who asked for an ambulance and I most definitely would not stand 12feet away. I'm surprised you were even able to hear what the man said from that distance.
The question which came into my head reading your op was not is this how a 999 call is handled but is this how a member of the public handles an ill person in the street. I'm sorry but you don't come across very well in this
A difficult situation for you given your previous experience, well done for staying with him until the ambulance arrived, that in itself can be a huge comfort to someone in distress.
No this incident really happened, I phoned the ambulance and stayed with the man until the ambulance crew arrived and were talking to him. So why do you say "you don't come across very well in this"?
I don't know how often you dial 999, in my case the last time was about 10 years ago when a girl was being beaten up by a drunken boyfriend outside my house early one Sunday morning.. I phoned for the police, went outside and shouted at the man who was very abusive. The police had to call for reinforcements to get him into a police van.
So yes I do what is necessary in emergency situations. I did help the man by calling the ambulance and stayed with him, so what would you have done?
On that point, you would hope that the emergency operator would re-assure the caller that someone is on the way before going through the suplementary questions because I can imagine it could be frustrating, but then again there may be the danger of the caller hanging up thinking their 'job' is done.