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Care costs for dementia sufferer
We're off to the CAB next week but wondering if anyone has experience of this. My grandad has been in hospital since before Christmas with suspected cancer of the voicebox - which was confirmed last week. We were given various options and have decided the best is to bring him home and make his last couple of weeks comfortable. He now needs 24 hour care as he is also suffering from dementia so when he comes out he needs to go into a home(he was living on his own with my mom going round to do his washing, cleaning, cook dinner etc.)
The house he lives in is owned by himself, my uncle and auntie. Can he be forced to sell the house to pay for his care? As he has dementia he wouldn't know what he signing.
Any experience would be very helpful.
The house he lives in is owned by himself, my uncle and auntie. Can he be forced to sell the house to pay for his care? As he has dementia he wouldn't know what he signing.
Any experience would be very helpful.
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It's a right messy process as they'll want all his financial details down to the last penny and can take ages to get sorted but the council will do the care work and will bill you once its sorted
http://www.web40571.clarahost.co.uk/archive/saga/2010/201005Works__Care_Home_Costs.htm
Yes, he may be liable for care fees, but there are other ways of meeting these costs in the short term, such as any pension money he has coming in, or renting out his home to raise income.You can also negotiate deferred payment, as described in the linked article.
As he is not able to make these decisions himself, you and your family will need to get power of attorney over his affairs so that you can make financial decisions for him.
It was a sham but necessary to tidy up her affairs.
Edit: "they" being the Office of the Public Guardian
Yes, this is correct, we had all this with my mother in law. It also takes ages to go through (It was 2 years before it was finally sorted, just before she died!)
They are meant to supervise and guide me as the appointed "Guardian".
Mum died almost two years ago.
I didn't bother informing them and I get reminders requesting I pay the annual fee for the last two years.
I'm waiting for them to escalate and I shall give them both barrels.
Yes, sorry.
Both sets of people I know who did this described it as 'having power of attorney' over their relatives affairs and the power was acquired after the relatives lost capacity to manage themselves , not before. I suppose people understood their role better when they used that term.
In one case it took ages to organise and the whole thing was very stressful for the two 'attorneys' who couldn't agree on anything.
I strongly advise that you try to have your grandad assessed for medical care need as this is paid for by the NHS and not out of your grandad's assets.
As above, get in touch with Age Uk and ask about the assessment and everything else...they are usually very helpful.
Good luck with everything, these situations can be a nightmare!
We have been going through this for several years.
Water infections can make the symptoms appear much worse.
There is a way to get all his care fees paid for and no need to sell his house, and that would be if he was sectioned. The rules have been tightened up recently, since my Mum was sectioned in 2003, for political reasons I am sure you and we all know why, so it is a lot harder meeting the new criteria.
The knub of it is that the person must be at risk of causing themselves harm, i.e. a danger to themselves. That's what happened with Mum. Even though she was sectioned, and her nursing home fees should have been paid by the council, no-one told us. So she had to sell her bungalow and all her antiques, that she had spent 40 years collecting, to pay the fees.
In 2003 she was paying £600 a week, which went up to £650, then £700 and finally to £750. After she died we found out, the council admitted they had made a mistake and refunded over £50,000 to her estate.
Absolutely correct.
If your grandad has been given a terminal diagnosis, the NHS will pay in full for his care after discharge under the NHS Continuing Care scheme and he will qualify for a fast-track assessment. The discharge team and/or hospital-based MacMillan will be able to assist you in making the application.
See the link below and, in particular, look at the first drop-down box re "fast track assessment" :
http://www.nhs.uk/CarersDirect/guide/practicalsupport/Pages/NHSContinuingCare.aspx
Previous replies referring to means-testing or concerning claims against his property (whilst no doubt well-intentioned) may be safely disregarded. These issues relate to care required in quite different circumstances which is funded by the local authority.
Good luck.
it only applies to those people sectioned under section 3 of the mental health act. people sectioned under a section 3 of the MHA are automatically discharged under section 117 which provides for free aftercare. In the case of older people, many local authorities were ignoring this believing it only applied to care services in the home, it didn't. A court case in 1999 with which I was involved confirmed that any care provided under a 117 had to be free
http://www.rethink.org/living-with-mental-illness/mental-health-laws/mental-health-act-1983/sections-2-3-4-5#section3
So much inaccurate information here - readers beware!
Do you know the difference between LPA and Deputyship?
What types of LPA are there?
What's section 117 of the Mental Health Act?
What do you mean by 'political reasons' in relation to your mum's detention under the Mental Health Act?
Dementia is classed as a mental illness, so arguably, all care should fall under the NHS.
It is a minefield.
http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/2392.aspx?CategoryID=68
I have had dealings with the Public Guardianship Office a few times. They do nothing until you ask. I sought their advice and they were very helpful with details. This whole area is a minefield.
To the OPs question. The price of 24 hour care (in a care home) back in 2004 was £850 per week. This was in London. Obviously that's gone up in the last 10 years. It's dependant on what area your Granddad is in.
I provided a link to the same information in post #16 and this is precisely what the OP needs to know.
Meanwhile, others insist on obscuring this practical help in favour of engaging in a totally unrelated debate about the difference between a Lasting Power of Attorney and appointment to act as a deputy by the Court of Protection.
I don't know why I bother with this forum. >:(
section 117 of the mental health act 2007 specifies that anyone detained under section 3 of the mental health act 2007 is entitled to free after care including residential care.
it was a response to the poster above stating that his mum got free care because she'd been detained, I was making the point that it only applies to those detained under section 3 of the mental health. In point of fact very few people relatively speaking are detained under this section.
I agree that there is a lot of unclear and misleading info on the thread. the links provided on continuing care are the place to start along with contact age uk or alzheimers society.
Don't be downhearted Yosemite. I thought your post was excellent as it was the only one that had the correct way forward for the OP. You've just fallen victim to the habit of posters not reading all (or any) of the preceding posts or not reading them right. I always read all the posts but sometimes do not read them in enough detail and miss an important point or misinterpret them.
Sometimes, like you experienced, I make a post that answers the question without any need for further replies, then get increasingly exasperated as successive posters either post something wrong or post exactly the same info as I did.
Sometimes, as I've just discovered via Google, I make mistakes and get stuff wrong in my post and then I feel like an idiot.
Do I know the difference....I do now thank you. I thought the LPA was a straight swap for for the EPA (I Googled EPA and that's when I found out it was now LPA) and didn't know, until you raised the question, that this was wrong. I knew nothing at all about Deputyship and I apologise to the OP and the rest of you for this.
What do I mean by....You read this sentence wrong so read it again. I meant the rules have been tightened up since my Mum was sectioned, for political reasons we all know about.
If you don't mind me saying so, you could have pointed out the difference between LPA and Deputyship in your post instead of just flagging up that I was wrong.
It's difficult to get continuing care for a dementia sufferer as their needs are often caring rather than nursing. My Mum had colon cancer and dementia and didn't qualify for continuing care as her she didn't need nursing care at the time the assessment was done. She would have been re-assessed but she died before her cancer progressed to the stage where she would have needed nursing care.
If he can't get continuing care then the house 'may' need to be sold to fund his care but it depends on how it is owned and why your uncle & aunt own part of it.
If you have a local Age UK they may have advisors who could help.