[Listentome]

Originally Posted by Simon_Foston

You see, I just find that a bit contrived and cheesy. It's like, "here's a witty juxtaposition of whimsy and pathos, just to show you that we know what they mean because we learned about them on a TV writers' course."

TV writers' course? You mean writers for the McCoy era had some level of training? :-)

Only kidding, despite the majority of it being rubbish I do enjoy the 7th Doctor era very much. Though Delta and the Bannermen has to be the worst. It just looks like some fan shot it on a camcorder using any bit of tat they could find as props. It's the cheapest looking story in the show's history.

Other contenders for my worst list:

Revenge of the Cybermen - utterly boring.

The Two Doctors - a budget wasted on a pointless location. A sinful waste of Troughton, an insult to the Sontarans.

The Unicorn and the Wasp - an example of why having a Doctor Who fan write a story isn't always the best thing. They think they can offer any old garbage, slap Doctor Who in the titles and get away with it. It's so bad it makes me question if Gareth Roberts is such a fan that he'd drag Who down like that.

The End of Time - as above

[gboy]

Fourth Doctor low points:

• 'The Invasion of Time' and 'The Armageddon Factor'. Whilst 'Seeds of Doom' and 'Talons of Weng-Chiang' proved that 6-parters can sometimes be great, these two stories prove they can also be over-long and stuck with large amounts of tedious padding.

• Tom's silliness - always compelling and brilliantly eccentric, Tom Baker will forever remain my favourite Doctor, but there were times he was bordering on panto. The early (Hinchcliffe) seasons are OK, as Tom's humour is reigned in - but by season 17 it's almost like watching the 'Tom Baker Show', which feels like an over-long 'Two Ronnies' sketch at times. However, by season 18 (and the arrival of JNT) the pendulum has swung too far the other way, and he's more like Dr Gloom...

• Christopher H Bidmead (though this also bleeds into Peter Davison's first series). Whilst Bidmead may think his scripts are the greatest thing since Shakespeare put quill to parchment, the vast majority of Who viewers find them pretentious and dull. Yes, Who can be informative and educational, but primarily its purpose is to be entertaining. It's no wonder Who was getting thrashed in the ratings by ITV's imported offering of 'Buck Rogers' during season 18.

• David Brierley voicing K9 - I can see why they brought John Leeson back...

• 'Underworld' - oh dear, why...? I know the money had run out, but why not just do a cheaper story? But then a story can look good, but still be crap...

• ...'The Leisure Hive' - it looks amazing and the opening shot on Brighton Beach is fantastic, suggesting something brilliant is happening with Who. But the actual story (and poorly-realised Foamasi) let it down badly.

• 'Warrior's Gate' - another story that looks brilliant, but is let down by the fact it's just so ...king dull!!

• JNT introducing question marks to the Doctor's collar - does anyone out there actually like them...?

[sovietusername]

Originally Posted by gboy

• JNT introducing question marks to the Doctor's collar - does anyone out there actually like them...?

I dont mind them

[Shawn_Lunn]

I don't hate the question marks but they works better in the context of Seven's umbrella though.

[snakecharmer37]

As far as the seventh Doctor is concerned, as others have said, Remembrance of the Daleks takes a lot of beating.
I have loved most of the new Who storys. Even the ones, that most on here dislike. However, apart from one gem, series six has to be the low point for me.
I hope that series seven and the 50th puts Doctor Who back on top of peoples must see programmes.

[Simon_Foston]

Originally Posted by snakecharmer37

As far as the seventh Doctor is concerned, as others have said, Remembrance of the Daleks takes a lot of beating.

It might look pretty good when compared to other McCoy stories, but that's not really saying much. It has some decent scenes with Daleks in it, but otherwise I think it gets remembered as some kind of all-time Doctor Who classic because it has Daleks in it and because it's a marginal improvement on the crud from the previous season and in Season 25 it's the only story that isn't utterly dire.

[CoalHillJanitor]

Originally Posted by gboy

• David Brierley voicing K9 - I can see why they brought John Leeson back...

They should have left him with laryngitis in the meantime.

[Listentome]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

I dont mind them

Blimey, I don't think I've seen anyone say they don't mind the question marks before.

I think the problem is the writing should convey the mysterious nature if The Doctor, not his clothing. It just cheapend him.

[Listentome]

Originally Posted by gboy

Fourth Doctor low points:

• 'The Invasion of Time' and 'The Armageddon Factor'. Whilst 'Seeds of Doom' and 'Talons of Weng-Chiang' proved that 6-parters can sometimes be great, these two stories prove they can also be over-long and stuck with large amounts of tedious padding.

• Tom's silliness - always compelling and brilliantly eccentric, Tom Baker will forever remain my favourite Doctor, but there were times he was bordering on panto. The early (Hinchcliffe) seasons are OK, as Tom's humour is reigned in - but by season 17 it's almost like watching the 'Tom Baker Show', which feels like an over-long 'Two Ronnies' sketch at times. However, by season 18 (and the arrival of JNT) the pendulum has swung too far the other way, and he's more like Dr Gloom...

• Christopher H Bidmead (though this also bleeds into Peter Davison's first series). Whilst Bidmead may think his scripts are the greatest thing since Shakespeare put quill to parchment, the vast majority of Who viewers find them pretentious and dull. Yes, Who can be informative and educational, but primarily its purpose is to be entertaining. It's no wonder Who was getting thrashed in the ratings by ITV's imported offering of 'Buck Rogers' during season 18.

• David Brierley voicing K9 - I can see why they brought John Leeson back...

• 'Underworld' - oh dear, why...? I know the money had run out, but why not just do a cheaper story? But then a story can look good, but still be crap...

• ...'The Leisure Hive' - it looks amazing and the opening shot on Brighton Beach is fantastic, suggesting something brilliant is happening with Who. But the actual story (and poorly-realised Foamasi) let it down badly.

• 'Warrior's Gate' - another story that looks brilliant, but is let down by the fact it's just so ...king dull!!

• JNT introducing question marks to the Doctor's collar - does anyone out there actually like them...?

Totally agree with your Bidmead assessment. As Tom said he couldn't stand that sort of "middle class put down".

[snakecharmer37]

Originally Posted by Simon_Foston

It might look pretty good when compared to other McCoy stories, but that's not really saying much. It has some decent scenes with Daleks in it, but otherwise I think it gets remembered as some kind of all-time Doctor Who classic because it has Daleks in it and because it's a marginal improvement on the crud from the previous season and in Season 25 it's the only story that isn't utterly dire.

I take your point on that. However, the reason I liked Remembrance, is not just because of the Daleks. Although, they are a plus No, I liked it because it showed very well the manipulative and dark side of the Doctor.

[Simon_Foston]

Originally Posted by snakecharmer37

No, I liked it because it showed very well the manipulative and dark side of the Doctor.

Well, yes, it did show his manipulative and dark side. But it also made the Doctor the instigator of everything that happened and as much as I understand and respect the desire to take the series in new directions when that happens I do not think it is Doctor Who any more.Nor am I keen on the idea of the Doctor being ten steps ahead of everyone else so that everything more or less works out as he'd planned. And that scene with Davros at the end is just an appalling scenery-chewing contest.

[Whovian1109]

Originally Posted by Simon_Foston

Well, yes, it did show his manipulative and dark side. But it also made the Doctor the instigator of everything that happened and as much as I understand and respect the desire to take the series in new directions when that happens I do not think it is Doctor Who any more.Nor am I keen on the idea of the Doctor being ten steps ahead of everyone else so that everything more or less works out as he'd planned. And that scene with Davros at the end is just an appalling scenery-chewing contest.

Sorry I've not ever watched any Classic Who (I inevitably will when I have time or money) what happens in Remembrance?

[Simon_Foston]

Originally Posted by Whovian1109

Sorry I've not ever watched any Classic Who (I inevitably will when I have time or money) what happens in Remembrance?

Two opposing factions of Daleks come looking for a... I suppose I should wrap spoiler tags around this, shouldn't I...

Spoiler

...mega-powerful Time Lord artefact the scriptwriters retroactively decided the First Doctor had somehow acquired and then left on Earth before the series actually started. As you do. One faction wipes out the other faction, takes the artefact and tries to use the artefact to turn Skaro's sun into a limitless power source, just like how the Time Lords got their power. The Doctor, however, has basically programmed the artefact to make the sun turn supernova and obliterate Skaro, something he planned before the start of the story It's pretty contrived stuff, there's plenty of other classic Who I'd recommend watching first. It might put you off wanting to see any more.

[steven1977]

Originally Posted by johnnysaucepn

So much depends on what things you like. If you like a straightforward plot where it's clear exactly what is going on, then Ghost Light is probably not for you. If you like wit and wordplay, strong themes, and being swept up in weirdness, then go for it.

What was it about Fenric, Battlefield, Survival etc. that put you off? Script, characters, special effects? We might be able to guide you to something you like if we know what you like.

The 7th Doctor era was absolutely fantastic how they were going more mysterious and dark.

[Whovian1109]

Originally Posted by Simon_Foston

Two opposing factions of Daleks come looking for a... I suppose I should wrap spoiler tags around this, shouldn't I...

Spoiler

...mega-powerful Time Lord artefact the scriptwriters retroactively decided the First Doctor had somehow acquired and then left on Earth before the series actually started. As you do. One faction wipes out the other faction, takes the artefact and tries to use the artefact to turn Skaro's sun into a limitless power source, just like how the Time Lords got their power. The Doctor, however, has basically programmed the artefact to make the sun turn supernova and obliterate Skaro, something he planned before the start of the story It's pretty contrived stuff, there's plenty of other classic Who I'd recommend watching first. It might put you off wanting to see any more.

DAMN I didn't realise the Doctor was that... well you know.

[CoalHillJanitor]

Originally Posted by Whovian1109

DAMN I didn't realise the Doctor was that... well you know.

Spoiler

Destroyer of Worlds?

[dorkjacksn]

Originally Posted by sovietusername

See, this is why I'm hesitant about McCoy, I've heard lots of good things about stories like Battlefield, Survival, Happiness Patrol but have not seen anything good. With all these stories I've never been able to watch past one or 2 episodes, I just cant. The only one I've been able to watch all the way through is curse of fenric and that's not nearly as good as it's cracked up to be. And what I've seen of McCoy's first season is just truly dreadful. While there are some gems in there e.g. some of the darker Peter Davidson or Colin Baker stories, I think that the 1980's as a whole were a dark time for Who. The only thing I've seen 7 in which I'd say is REALLY good is not a 7th Doctor story at all but ab 8th Doctor story, the TV Movie.

Exactly the same for me. Even the much lauded 'Remembrance ' I find badly acted and badly filmed.

[gboy]

Fifth Doctor low points:

• 'Castrovalva' - looked brilliant, but is just such a ludicrous and dull plot; it's like an elegantly-gilded turd
  
• 'Time-Flight' - they should have ended the season on a high (or low, depending on your take on Adric) with 'Earthshock'. 'Earthshock' was gutsy and daring and brought back the Cybermen after a lengthy hiatus. 'Time-flight' was so lame if it had been a horse someone somewhere would have put it out its misery
  
• The celery - as if the question marks on the shirt collars weren't bad enough...
  
• Season 20 - could have been brilliant, but contained so many tedious stories it doesn't do the twentieth anniversary justice. (I've still never seen 'Terminus' right to the end: I get as far as half-way through episode 3 and lose the will to watch)
  
• 'Frontios' - destroying the Tardis and then rebuilding it so easily
  
• Not filming 'Kinda' on location - sorry, but the forest just looks like a TV studio. Why not go back to Black Park at Iver where 'Full Circle' was filmed? OK, it might have upped the budget a bit, but it would have been worth it. Kinda is a great story pulled down by poor production values
  
• Studio lighting - in some stories ('Warriors of the Deep' to name but one) the studio lighting is so bright, I'm surprised the cast aren't wearing sunglasses
  
• Tegan in a boob tube - fair enough, it was the 80s, and we all made some horrendous fashion faux-pas, but did she really think that was a good look?

[Whovian1109]

Originally Posted by CoalHillJanitor

Spoiler

Destroyer of Worlds?

Well yeah but not normally in that way, just because he has no other choice. That suggests

Spoiler

He tricked the Daleks into doing something that he knew would wipe them all out, almost unprovoked (I know its the Daleks but still...)

[steven1977]

A lot of bad stories aired in 2005 - 2009.