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The Invasion Of Time

daveyboy7472daveyboy7472 Posts: 16,416
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Though it's a minor improvement on Underworld, this story still continues the downwards spiral of the Series towards the end of Season 15 and is the worst of all the 6-Parters from Tom Baker's Era. As some sort of sequel to The Deadly Assassin it fails miserably.

I think the idea of of The Doctor behaving out of character for 3-4 episodes was a novel one but it starts to grate after a while with The Doctor becomingly increasingly smug during this period. The only upside to this is Leela, who effectively carries the action in The Doctor's usual absence.

There are three major problems with this story. The first is the realisation of The Vardans both in their glittery form(which does look better in the CGI version) and the revelation that they are human-like. Why couldn't they have been more alien in appearance?
The second is The Sontarans. After two superb performances by Kevin Lindsay in previous stories, the impact of the Sontarans surprise appearance is quickly dispersed by them being treated like idiots and the leader having a Cockney accent.

The main one off course is Leela's departure. Unlike Jo's where the romance was built up from the first episode of The Green Death, Leela's sudden declaration of love for Andred is somewhat surprising as it hadn't featured previously in the story. I always have felt Leela should have gone out fighting as was her savage nature but she went out on a whimper. What made it more surprising that The Doctor allowed her to stay on Gallifrey was the fact he hadn't even allowed Sarah to go there with him.

The other big debating point about this story has always been the different TARDIS interior shown in this story. before this, I had always imagined it to be exactly as it was portrayed later in Logopolis and Castrovalva with the roundels everywhere. I just find that more acceptable. Though the TARDIS 'hum' was heard the look of the interior in this story looked exactly as it was, an inside location and it just didn't gel for me.

There are a few minor good points in this story. I like Milton John's portrayal as the smarmy and slimy Kelner and John Arnatt always amuses as Borusa, an incarnation far removed from that in The Five Doctors. (Loved the newspaper article he was reading in the TARDIS and his interest in it)I also thought the exterior scenes where Leela in her natural habitat were a welcome relief from the other aspects of the story but aside from that there was no doubt by this point in Tom Baker's Era it had hit rock bottom. Thankfully the next Season would pick it up again IMO.

:)
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    sovietusernamesovietusername Posts: 1,169
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    I actually dont mind this one, the
    Sontarans
    are quite good and it's cool to see the Time Lords. It's true it does drag in places and I agree with a lot of your points (Leela's dearture really out of the blue) but I do think it's very under rated as it has it's moments
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 82,262
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    Rally don't like this at all Invasuion of Time is a mess right from the start - e Vardens are just laughable and when they finally do appear they look like a bunch of university students on a piss up. TAnd it's just beyond belief that the Time Lords could be defeated by such an inept looking bunch . As for Leela staying behind to marry a bloke she had just met is beyond stupid and one of the laziest pieces of scripting in the entire classic series.

    Yes despite all it's faults Invasion of Time does have one redeeming feature and that's the appearance of the Sonrarans at the end of ep4 which for me is one of the best cliff hangers ever.
    Though the TARDIS 'hum' was heard the look of the interior in this story looked exactly as it was, an inside location and it just didn't gel for me.

    agreed - the strike that was going on at the BBC at the time certainly had a big effect on this story andthe production team did the best with what they had but the interior of the factory doubkling for the TARDIS was simply awful as did the rest of the sets. It's a pitty really because I think with better scripting and no strike action Invasion of Time could potentially have been a very good story.
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    MulettMulett Posts: 9,057
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    I must agree with pretty much everything you've said, daveyboy7472.

    I've not watched this one for a few years now, but I remember being incredibly disappointed when I bought the DVD and watched it (for the first time since its original transmission).

    Even by 70s-Who standards, the special effects are just awful. The story is mostly nonsense. The inside of the TARDIS is terrible. The Sontarans seem little more than a plot device to add on an extra couple of episodes. Leela and K-9's departure is TERRIBLE.

    Tom puts in a good performance throughout, though.
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    CELT1987CELT1987 Posts: 12,358
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    Awful story, one of Tom's worst. It starts off badly with the Vardens, who are basically tin foil. When the Sontarans appear, it improves slightly. However, the chase though the TARDIS is farcical and the factory used for the interior was awful.

    As for the ending, why did Leela want to marry a guy she has hardly met? How come Leela was allowed on Gallifrey but Sarah wasn't?
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    chuffnobblerchuffnobbler Posts: 10,772
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    Boring and overlong. One of the Vardans is quite handsome though. (I think he also appears in The Sun Makers).
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    DavetheScotDavetheScot Posts: 16,623
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    I can see why this must have seemed in theory like a good story for the six-part final story of the series. The Sontarans had been great on their two previous outings, and Gallifrey had been great in The Deadly Assassin. Surely combining the two would be gold?

    It really, really wasn't though. If proof were needed that bringing back a successful adversary and a successful world didn't make for a successful story, this one provides it. The Sontarans are wasted, the story is weak and even the acting isn't as good as it should be.
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    meglosmurmursmeglosmurmurs Posts: 35,110
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    Agree that being told a quick plot of the story, you'd be forgiven for thinking this could be quite an epic story. Whereas it's actually a total shambles, it's not just the Doctor that seemingly loses his mind, the whole story seems to gradually lose it's marbles. In some bits I actually find myself getting annoyed and the story seriously begins to grate. When it gets to the end bit I'm not actually sure what the hell's going on and how the Doctor is supposed to resolve things :confused: and therefore don't really care.
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    allen_whoallen_who Posts: 2,819
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    I reckon (having just rewatched this story) that Leela can comfortably lay claim to be the one who invented speed dating :D
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    AdelaideGirlAdelaideGirl Posts: 3,498
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    Just to be different I didn't mind Leela's departure. I could even almost believe the romance - she was supposed to be someone who acted on impulse and he was most certainly the bravest of the Time Lords - willing to stand up for what he thought was right. I thought he was appealing and certainly kind of cute.
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    chuffnobblerchuffnobbler Posts: 10,772
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    Watched it over the last couple of nights with Mrs Chuff, and we both agreed that it's utterly dreadful. Far worse than I remember.

    The set design is ghastly. K9 is very noisy. There are some very silly sound effects. Other than Kelner and Borusa, the supporting characters are unmemorable. People stand around waiting to be shot and then gently tumble to the ground. Tom is madly OTT and, even though they go some way to explain he's trying to confuse the Vardans, it's still madly OTT. At the end, the Doctor just builds a big gun and uses it to switch off the story.

    Bloody awful.
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    adams66adams66 Posts: 3,945
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    There's an over-riding feeling of apathy about The Invasion Of Time, a sense that no-one really gives a toss about the programme. Admittedly the script was pulled together at the very last minute, which clearly didn't help matters, but Doctor Who has usually risen to the challenge of a crisis - here, it's all just 'that'll have to do.'

    There should be an epic sense of scale - this is Gallifrey, home of the Time Lords, being invaded!! But it's all so humdrum and minor. The Vardans are perhaps the least threatening invaders ever, certainly the most boring and none of the Time Lords seem the slightest bit bothered by what's happening. Gallifrey itself is horribly plastic and cheap looking (comprising of just a couple of short corridors and one or two rooms it seems). The acting isn't especially worse than usual, but it's all rather run of the mill and beyond Baker's manic and hyperactive performance no-one makes an impression.

    The stuff that does stick in my mind is the glaring faults - the appalling direction of K-9 is one. That prop had been used for a good six months by this point so surely everyone ought to have known how slow it was, and how dreadfully noisy. So why include umpteen scenes that require K-9 to trundle around for what seems like hours and then have him 'creep' up behind guards who apparently can't hear that deafeningly whiney motor!

    The inside of the TARDIS - well, there's no reason why it couldn't look like a disused hospital, but as an 11 year old watching this for the first time back in early 1978 nothing about these scenes rang true. I had happily suspended my disbelief over hundreds of Doctor Who scenes in the past, and would do again, but this location doubling as the TARDIS just seemed incredibly lazy.

    And as the story was written by Graham Williams and Tony Read, you can't blame the writers for not understanding Who's budgets. What were they thinking off? How did they imagine that this would ever look good? But despite the overambitious ideas that the script half-heartedly tries to deliver, the finished programme is so woefully underambitious, slapdash and couldn't-care-less that there's little for the viewer to care about.

    Surely the abandoned Killer Cats script can't have been worse than this?
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    Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    I think it certainly benefitted from its supporting actors but i don't think its THAT bad really.

    yes, many aspects were lacking but as a belt and braces job, it was ok.

    My gripes were:

    Vardens could have been better realised.
    Leela should have been killed off or left to join the Gallifreyans in the wilderness..
    The Doctor less out of character, more subtlety.
    The Time Lords in better numbers and reacting more appropriately to invasion.
    Tardis interior scale could have been realised by moving the set walls around, or at least had brick work and plaster masked with roundels.

    But, i still enjoyed it and thought that the Sontarans were portrayed appropriately as brutish tbugs.
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    Face Of JackFace Of Jack Posts: 7,181
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    Bit of a strange one this. I quite like it though, for all its faults!
    It's basically a four-part story linked to a two-part story.
    The tin-foil Vardens were a bit cringeworthy (more suited to Hartnell's era!)
    I too wasn't keen on that Tardis layout......more imagination needed there there methinks!
    Very abrupt departure for Leela too. But all in all I still love to re-watch it now and again, and enjoy the memories of those 70's serials! I like to play the commentary too :) (Even they criticise a lot of it!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 611
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    I do have to agree to varying extents, not the best story under the Fourth Doctor's belt. The TARDIS interior was awful, the Vardens and Sontarans looked awful, and honestly they should have made it so that the Sontarans were the first to invade Gallifrey with the Vardens manipulating them to make it easier for them.

    Leela's exit is also weak since she chooses to leave the Doctor for the biggest wet blanket on the set. Hell, she had better chemistry with Rodan. I actually heard somewhere that Jameson originally wanted Leela to be killed off, defending the Doctor, which would have been interesting, though I wouldn't be surprised if they did go with that, it would have looked flat. The fact that she takes K9 with her, only for Four to have a spare handy makes me think that they decided against losing the tin dog at the last moment but couldn't re-shoot the scene.

    Not the best of the season.
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    adams66adams66 Posts: 3,945
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    Mrfipp wrote: »
    The fact that she takes K9 with her, only for Four to have a spare handy makes me think that they decided against losing the tin dog at the last moment but couldn't re-shoot the scene.

    I don't think that this was the case, actually.
    The original K-9 prop had all sorts of problems, not least the horrendous noise of its motors, and the fact that its radio controls badly interfered with the cameramen's headsets.
    So the decision was taken to almost completely rebuild the workings of the prop in the break between seasons.
    So K-9 Mark II was officially introduced, though to be honest I can't imagine that the viewers would ever have noticed much difference, beyond the prop being a bit quieter.
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    bokononbokonon Posts: 2,370
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    Agree that being told a quick plot of the story, you'd be forgiven for thinking this could be quite an epic story. Whereas it's actually a total shambles, it's not just the Doctor that seemingly loses his mind, the whole story seems to gradually lose it's marbles. In some bits I actually find myself getting annoyed and the story seriously begins to grate. When it gets to the end bit I'm not actually sure what the hell's going on and how the Doctor is supposed to resolve things :confused: and therefore don't really care.

    More or less completely agree with this. One of my least favourite stories of Tom's era. I remember seeing it as a kid and being quite excited when the Sontarans turned up but watching it back it is just yet another random plot development. For all the moaning about the modern scripts I bet none has so many holes in them as Invasion of Time. In fact there is more hole than plot.
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    chuffnobblerchuffnobbler Posts: 10,772
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    "More hole than plot". Great description! They really do seem to be making it up as they go along.

    There's a cliffhanger (pt5 maybe??) when the Doctor and chums are in the Tardis and Kelner does "something" which makes the Tardis get sucked towards a hole in time, or somesuch nonsense. The next episode begins with the Doctor leaping to his feet and flicking a switch, immediately solving the problem and returning everything to normal.

    Dreadful.
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    JethrykJethryk Posts: 1,355
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    Have to say I can't stand this story either. People cite Season 17 as Tom's worst but this story following Underworld is the real low point for me. Tom's two worst stories and they're right next to each other.
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    Mr SetaMr Seta Posts: 380
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    For all its faults (and there were lots) that everyone's covered well. although it was generally average & somewhat boring I found it more watchable than a couple of other stories in this season.

    Speaking of which, to me Season 15 is one of the most erratic (and poor) in a long while. I'd go so far to say since Season 6 -Troughton's last (maybe even more so). If The Horror of Fang Rock & The Imagine of Fendahl were as bad as some of the others in the season I'd go so far to say the worst season across the first 6 Doctors until McCoy's first season (& that's a fairly bold call). :o
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    JethrykJethryk Posts: 1,355
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    Mr Seta wrote: »
    For all its faults (and there were lots) that everyone's covered well. although it was generally average & somewhat boring I found it more watchable than a couple of other stories in this season.

    Speaking of which, to me Season 15 is one of the most erratic (and poor) in a long while. I'd go so far to say since Season 6 -Troughton's last (maybe even more so). If The Horror of Fang Rock & The Imagine of Fendahl were as bad as some of the others in the season I'd go so far to say the worst season across the first 6 Doctors until McCoy's first season (& that's a fairly bold call). :o

    It is but I can see your point, in the post above I said I thought Underworld and Invasion of Time were Tom's worst and I think Invisible Enemy would get bottom 5 but I really like Fang Rock and Fendahl. probably a bit unfair to discount the best stories of a season though you coud do that with a lot of them, how bad would season 17 be without City of Death for example.
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    chuffnobblerchuffnobbler Posts: 10,772
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    DW has a lot of rubbish 6parters, and Invasion of Time is one of the worst. 6parters are often boring, but at least this isn't boring cos it keeps chucking totally random new stuff into the mix. Really, it feels made up a it goes along. The worst Tom story for me is Armageddon Factor, which is a very, very boring 6parter. At least Invasion of Time is silly. I can watch silly DW. Dull DW is inexcusable. There is nothing in The Armageddon Factor that makes me chuckle or wince. It just makes me snore.
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    Mr SetaMr Seta Posts: 380
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    Jethryk wrote: »
    It is but I can see your point, in the post above I said I thought Underworld and Invasion of Time were Tom's worst and I think Invisible Enemy would get bottom 5 but I really like Fang Rock and Fendahl. probably a bit unfair to discount the best stories of a season though you coud do that with a lot of them, how bad would season 17 be without City of Death for example.

    You might have a point there & I might be jumping the gun a bit in that assessment. :)
    I missed all of Season 16 & the last 2 (completed) stories of Season 17 growing up. I've only just watched season 16 for the first time(!) -consistently average IMO, but I l adored Romana I and her interaction with Baker so this raised the stories a bit too. About to start viewing Season 17 this weekend. Considering the last 2 stories (Eden & Nimon) are meant to be pretty bad -what. an understatement you say-?, I might be more in agreement with you there! I did quite like Destiny of the Daleks though but nowhere up to the standard of a classic like Horror of Fang Rock or even Image of Fendahl.

    ..Hmm, this has given me an idea for a new future thread (best & worst season of each Doctor)
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    CoalHillJanitorCoalHillJanitor Posts: 15,634
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    DW has a lot of rubbish 6parters, and Invasion of Time is one of the worst. 6parters are often boring, but at least this isn't boring cos it keeps chucking totally random new stuff into the mix. Really, it feels made up a it goes along. The worst Tom story for me is Armageddon Factor, which is a very, very boring 6parter. At least Invasion of Time is silly. I can watch silly DW. Dull DW is inexcusable. There is nothing in The Armageddon Factor that makes me chuckle or wince. It just makes me snore.

    Silly can be good. I can appreciate The Invisible Enemy on a silliness level (a miniaturised duplicate of the Doctor messing about inside his own brain?)! :D
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    chuffnobblerchuffnobbler Posts: 10,772
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    Absolutely! Silly is fun, and fun is watchable. Deadly dull and serious is not watchable. That's (part of) the problem with some of the current DW: it's terribly pompous and grand and self-important.

    The Invisible Enemy is a hoot, and is several notches above The Invasion of Time because it's several episodes shorter.
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    chuffnobblerchuffnobbler Posts: 10,772
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    Nice to see Terrance Dicks criticising The Invasion of Time in his DWM interview this month!
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