Sky 4K

dizzydjcdizzydjc Posts: 26
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Hello,

So I have recently got a 4K TV which looks fantastic and works great with 4K content on Netflix.

I know it is rumoured but I just wanted to find out if there was any official word on 4K coming to Sky any time soon? Do we think there may have to be a different kind of dish or box in order for it to work?

I just wanted to create a discussion to hear your views. Anybody else in the same boat? :kitty:
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Comments

  • technologisttechnologist Posts: 13,312
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    The tv you have is very unlikely to work well with what the broadcasters are working on.
    ...... As they do not want to be stung as they were by the consumer electronics industry over HD.

    Starting with your screen .. It us only 8 bit ....
    With high dynamic range it will need to be at least 10 bit and may be even 12.......

    It also has a bt 709 colour gamut .. Nor much more than SD,
    not the BT 2020 gamut which is very much wider and thus life like.....
    Also it is probably set to about 80 nits peak luminance not say 200....

    Other than BT 2020 gamut ...... Nothing is stanrdised yet ..
    And with 10 bit there is still a lot if debate in OETF and EOTF ... Gamma to the oldies...

    And we have not mentioned frame rate yet...... But 100 or 120 frames per second
    The lack of standards starts with the camera and goes through the whole chain ...
    But they are starting to settle ahead of the technology being able to deliver,
    So we are say two,years away...

    And from SKy's point of view their premium product - sport- needs HFR HDR and perhaps a touch more gamut.....

    Static resolution is not what you notice more than 3H from the screen ....
    All the others are !

    If you are in the industry SMPTE has a seminar in London and Salford on the UHD ecosystem
    See. https://www.smpte.org/sections/united-kingdom for more details
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,270
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    dizzydjc wrote: »

    I know it is rumoured but I just wanted to find out if there was any official word on 4K coming to Sky any time soon? Do we think there may have to be a different kind of dish or box in order for it to work?

    The only official word was when 4K sets were first announced, and Sky informed us that they were initiating development of a new 4K capable box - with a view to 'potentially' launching a 4K service.

    There's never been any further info since, and probably wont be unless Sky do decide on a 4K launch. I would assume that a potential new box would also be 8K capable as well?, bearing in mind Sky's previous experience of trying to 'future proof' boxes when possible.

    Fairly obviously you will need a new box, just as you need a new TV - also obviously you won't need a new dish. But I wouldn't suggest it's likely to be 'soon' - long before a service launches there will be test transmissions, and extensive beta testing of the boxes.
  • JARVJARV Posts: 550
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    I like you have purchaed over Christmas a Sony X85 4K TV, awesome picture quality, loving Netflix 4K, such a great purchase
  • ktla5ktla5 Posts: 1,683
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    dizzydjc wrote: »
    Hello,

    So I have recently got a 4K TV which looks fantastic and works great with 4K content on Netflix.

    I know it is rumoured but I just wanted to find out if there was any official word on 4K coming to Sky any time soon? Do we think there may have to be a different kind of dish or box in order for it to work?

    I just wanted to create a discussion to hear your views. Anybody else in the same boat? :kitty:


    sadly I have no doubt a new TV too, as the standards for broadcasting 4K tv have nor been agreed yet !
  • ktla5ktla5 Posts: 1,683
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    JARV wrote: »
    I like you have purchaed over Christmas a Sony X85 4K TV, awesome picture quality, loving Netflix 4K, such a great purchase

    May need a new TV when 4K if and when starts properly ! :(
  • JARVJARV Posts: 550
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    My old Sony 46HX823 started to fail with dead pixels and three bands down the panel so wanted a replacement, the reviews for this were too good not to miss!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 13
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    Sky are either unwilling or unable to offer even 1080p right now, and those standards have been ratified for several years. I foresee being stuck at 720p/1080i for at least a couple of years. It bugs me that streaming services have been offering 1080p, and some even 4K for a year or more, yet Sky a supposed premium provider, can only manage 720p/1080i.

    As such, I find it highly doubtful we'll see anything approaching 4K from them for several years yet. I'd also not be surprised if Sky abandoned it's Satellite delivery platform for anything greater than 720p/1080i, and went to TV over IP delivery for 1080p and above.
  • White-KnightWhite-Knight Posts: 2,508
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    The tv you have is very unlikely to work well with what the broadcasters are working on.
    ...... As they do not want to be stung as they were by the consumer electronics industry over HD.

    Just curious, how did they get stung by HD?
  • popeye13popeye13 Posts: 8,573
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    Ryster wrote: »
    Sky are either unwilling or unable to offer even 1080p right now, and those standards have been ratified for several years. I foresee being stuck at 720p/1080i for at least a couple of years. It bugs me that streaming services have been offering 1080p, and some even 4K for a year or more, yet Sky a supposed premium provider, can only manage 720p/1080i.

    As such, I find it highly doubtful we'll see anything approaching 4K from them for several years yet. I'd also not be surprised if Sky abandoned it's Satellite delivery platform for anything greater than 720p/1080i, and went to TV over IP delivery for 1080p and above.

    So Sky are the only ones who broadcast HDTV then?
    Or am i missing something here?!

    1080i was adopted worldwide!! Not just by Sky!!!
  • unouno Posts: 973
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    Sky have quite advanced plans for 4K especially sport they have done lots of Premiership football already as well Rugby Union,Tennis,Speedway,Cricket and extensive testing at the Ryder cup as well.

    I am pretty sure that I saw a couple of 4K cameras at the Darts in London the other day so expect that may be added to the kist shortly.

    This has all been done for internal use and archiving at present but have seen a very impressive 10min demo 4K demo which is simply mind blowing in clarity and detail.

    BT sport have also done their own 4K testing in 2014 with Premiership Rugby and Tennis.

    Two of their UK OB partners have 4K trucks in CTV and Telegenic the latter due to get another in 2015 as well.

    It's not just sport more and more concerts are being produced and filmed in 4K as well including a One direction,Michael Buble,War Horse play and Kasabian home coming concert in Leicester

    So Sky are getting well prepared and as others have said are working on a new box I have a feeling that 4K may be IP delivered rather than by satellite though so they could just launch with a small device that adds onto current HD boxes until the new full box is ready.

    I would not be surprised to see some sort of 4K launch late 2015/early 2016 but this may be like with 3D launch to their licensed trade partners so Sky install large 4K screens into pubs and venues to watch sport and may even start showing events in cinemas as well.

    Sky are also obviously very well aware of the amount of 4K tvs that are being sold and there will be a whole load more launched this week at CES trade show in Vegas this week with new models from All the usual big tv manufacturers expected.
  • popeye13popeye13 Posts: 8,573
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    uno wrote: »
    I have a feeling that 4K may be IP delivered rather than by satellite though so they could just launch with a small device that adds onto current HD boxes until the new full box is ready.

    But IP delivery would hammer your internet usage and while you might have an unlimited service, there is fair usage so no, i don't see them using IP at all as Sky are a satellite broadcaster.
  • unouno Posts: 973
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    Shall have to see Popeye13 what they decide to do but at the session I attended they did seem very keen on IP delivery saying it would work best on 25mb connection but could go lower possibly. This may just be short term until they get new box as part of project Ethan launched and get more content.

    You say about Internet usage but this wouldn't be any more than for 4K Netflix,Amazon or other providers as at launch I suspect you will be looking at 1 or 2 football matches a week, a few Cricket test matches in the Summer, some US 4K content a bit of repeated light entertainment and then the demo reel at other times. So you may be looking at 20hrs of content a week if you watched it all.

    This will no doubt about it be launched as premium product and will be extra cost as well which is fine if you are an early adopter and are happy to pay £1500+ for new 4K tv although did see nice Panasonic 4K at 40 inch in JL for £899 so the price is coming down. So if you want the service you will make sure you have FTTC or Virgin service that it requires

    I do know for fact they aim to have been adding 4K rights into their contracts for the past 15 months once they decided 3Dtv was not going to take off.
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,270
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    Ryster wrote: »
    Sky are either unwilling or unable to offer even 1080p right now, and those standards have been ratified for several years.

    Because it's a pointless exercise, 1080i is EXACTLY the same resolution, so there's no point in using 1080P25 as it gives no worthwhile advantage. Some Freeview HD broadcasts are in 1080P25, but the ONLY way people know is because the on-screen display informs them, you can't tell any difference in the picture.

    1080i was also the broadcast standard ratified by the EBU.
  • derek500derek500 Posts: 24,886
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    popeye13 wrote: »
    But IP delivery would hammer your internet usage and while you might have an unlimited service, there is fair usage so no, i don't see them using IP at all as Sky are a satellite broadcaster.

    Yet they're pushing their subscribers to becoming 'connected'. And it's working, over 6m homes now connected, more movies are watched on demand than on the linear channels and average number of monthly downloads per connected home has increased 39% in the last year.

    OK, not live and not 4k, but it's a trend.
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,270
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    derek500 wrote: »
    Yet they're pushing their subscribers to becoming 'connected'.

    They want their users 'connected', because just like the phone connection in the past it's an extra revenue stream for them.
  • mooxmoox Posts: 18,880
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    popeye13 wrote: »
    But IP delivery would hammer your internet usage and while you might have an unlimited service, there is fair usage so no, i don't see them using IP at all as Sky are a satellite broadcaster.

    Sky is also a major ISP and could more easily use something like multicast to reduce the network load that 4K content would place on it.

    Some satellite operators are testing 4K over satellite, I was messing around with my motorised dish a few days ago and both Hispasat and Astra seem to have 4K test channels. I'd guess you need specialist hardware or some bodged PC-based solution to look at them right now, though
  • SteveMcKSteveMcK Posts: 5,457
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    uno wrote: »
    saw a couple of 4K cameras at the Darts in London the other day

    It's hard to imagine any sport that would benefit less from 4K than darts!
  • methodyguymethodyguy Posts: 6,044
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    Just before Christmas I bought a 55inch Curved Samsung UHDTV and a curved soundbar and I have to say I am very happy with my purchase. 4K content from Netflx looks stunning on it and I have to say that non 4K content looks fantastic as well. Samsung were giving away a UHDTV box that makes your tv future proof so it's good to have that as well. Also there are some movies on it in UHD which look awesome. So anyone considering a 4K tv purchase I would say now is the time. You certainly won't regret it. So let's see what Sky have to bring to the 4K party. :)
  • technologisttechnologist Posts: 13,312
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    popeye13 wrote: »
    , i don't see them using IP at all as Sky are a satellite broadcaster.

    Sky is the UKs second largest ISP after BT

    BT 31%
    Virgin Media 20%
    TalkTalk 15%
    Sky 20%
    EE 3%
    Others 10%
    (End of 2013)

    From http://media.ofcom.org.uk/facts/
  • ktla5ktla5 Posts: 1,683
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    Ryster wrote: »
    Sky are either unwilling or unable to offer even 1080p right now, and those standards have been ratified for several years. I foresee being stuck at 720p/1080i for at least a couple of years. It bugs me that streaming services have been offering 1080p, and some even 4K for a year or more, yet Sky a supposed premium provider, can only manage 720p/1080i.

    As such, I find it highly doubtful we'll see anything approaching 4K from them for several years yet. I'd also not be surprised if Sky abandoned it's Satellite delivery platform for anything greater than 720p/1080i, and went to TV over IP delivery for 1080p and above.

    As far as I know, NO broadcaster offers 1080p, maybe Netflix does 'on line' but for most people (not everyone) that is hopeless way of watching TV anyway !
  • ktla5ktla5 Posts: 1,683
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    methodyguy wrote: »
    Just before Christmas I bought a 55inch Curved Samsung UHDTV and a curved soundbar and I have to say I am very happy with my purchase. 4K content from Netflx looks stunning on it and I have to say that non 4K content looks fantastic as well. Samsung were giving away a UHDTV box that makes your tv future proof so it's good to have that as well. Also there are some movies on it in UHD which look awesome. So anyone considering a 4K tv purchase I would say now is the time. You certainly won't regret it. So let's see what Sky have to bring to the 4K party. :)

    I am not sure how 'now is the time' if standards have not been agreed, it may well end up being a tv in the room that cannot cope with 4K when its launched for mass consumption.
    But will it be like 3D ? many just having been forced into digital in the past couple of years, and will have no intention of buying yet another TV! and quite a sizeable chunk of the public could give two hoots about the current HD so unlikely to fork out more money !
  • simon194simon194 Posts: 1,888
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    1080i was also the broadcast standard ratified by the EBU.
    It was ratified as a stopgap format until compression technology makes 1080p broadcasting cost effective. The EBU don't actually recommend using interlaced formats for HD broadcasts which IIRC is mentioned in the 1080i documentation.

    Then of course some broadcasters, such as Sky, went on and supplied some STB's that don't support 1080p.
  • popeye13popeye13 Posts: 8,573
    Forum Member
    Sky is the UKs second largest ISP after BT

    BT 31%
    Virgin Media 20%
    TalkTalk 15%
    Sky 20%
    EE 3%
    Others 10%
    (End of 2013)

    From http://media.ofcom.org.uk/facts/

    And?
    we're not talking about Sky Broadband here, we're talking about Sky and 4K UHD TV and the fact their TV business is delivered by satellite.
    Do keep up :p
  • Nigel GoodwinNigel Goodwin Posts: 58,270
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    simon194 wrote: »
    Then of course some broadcasters, such as Sky, went on and supplied some STB's that don't support 1080p.

    You mean as almost ALL did (including the HD Ready standard) - as the ratified standards were 1080i and 720P, nothing else.

    Why this pointless fixation on 1080P? - what do you imagine it would give you?.
  • mooxmoox Posts: 18,880
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    popeye13 wrote: »
    And?
    we're not talking about Sky Broadband here, we're talking about Sky and 4K UHD TV and the fact their TV business is delivered by satellite.
    Do keep up :p

    You assume that they will always use satellite as a primary delivery method, we're trying to say that as a major ISP they could easily consider IP moving forward. Especially now that BT's FTTC/FTTP networks are available to large amounts of the population, well exceeding Virgin cable. I remember the posts from 10 years ago about how cable TV would always be superior as they have the return path and VOD and Sky never will.

    It is a lot easier to run 4K over a network that they own and control, than fixing any capacity issues that they may hit. over a satellite cluster that they rent from a third party
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