I thought the influence was the other way around and Tristan and Isolde was an older story, but I am not sure. I think there probably was an influence one way or the other. There are similarities between the two.
Tristan and Isolde is older, the traditional convention is that it influenced the Arthurian romances.
It's kind of funny that Tristan and Isolde have been absorbed into the Arthurian legends and have become a 'side story' when they're the 'original'
Am I the only one that hopes that nothing happens between Gwen and Lancelot? I really love Arthur and Gwen together and I don't want anything to change that.
*puts up hand*
I like the idea of it being unrequited between Lancelot and Gwen.
Fair play to the writers they gave us enough hints in the final episode to let us know that there is definitely a spark between them; to the point where I was feeling sorry for Arthur. I don't know if I felt that way because of the writing or because I know that part of the legend is that Lancelot and Guinevere do fall in love.
The legends don't really tell us how Merlin reacts to the affair so it will be interesting to see what he does when/if he finds out. He loves all three of them and one of the most subtle sub-plots of the series is that he actually helped Arthur to choose two of the most prominent knights for the round table. So I would imagine he will be distraught.
I guess I just thought her character could have been written better. I had expected to see slight torment within. That she was struggling, as she knew she'd gone a bit too far. I just find her turning into a pantomime 'camp' baddy a bit hard to swallow.
I know what you mean, and it is hard to imagine that Morgana could, for instance, so casually talk of killing Gwen, her personal servant and onetime dearest friend, when in the first two series we saw her show such care for her. I think the only way to explain it is complete indoctrination by Morgause during her "missing year".
Also, what happened with Cenred's kingdom? I thought the reason Morgause killed him was because she wanted to take his throne, while Morgana ruled Camelot. (I appreciate she wouldn't have had any claim to the throne, but she had a magical army.) She was the brains behind the whole takeover of Camelot, so it seemed a bit silly that she was happy to swan around the Castle all day while her sister took the throne. I was expecting Morgana to get stabbed in the back.
Cenred had a verbal slip in which he suggested it would be he who ruled Camelot. It was Morgana that Morgause wanted as ruler in Camelot, so once Cenred had served his purpose, she disposed of him as a possible rival.
In his mind he's killing the people for a reason, he has to, they are guilty, as absurd as it is with those children. Morgana kills them, because it may help with her plans.
But then to Morgana, her plans may seem as essential to the kingdom's well-being as Uther's reasons did to him.
Yeah, I agree with you there. She seemed happy to be a Princess and be waited on hand and foot than she ever did with wanting to show magic. It was only Morgause who made her go bad.
It'll be interesting to see what happens next year. I guess Katie McGrath is signed on for series 4, so will probably be in most episodes as the baddy constantly getting her plans foiled.
"I must get my revenge, even though Arthur is King now and magic is allowed. Whine, whine, whine."
Arthur may not allow magic immediately. Indeed, why would he? He's just had further proof of how dangerous, evil and destructive it is, and he doesn't know that Merlin and Gaius used magic in his cause.
I agree with all of this! I was watching Lancelot and Gwen very closely and I'm intrigued to see where the show will go with them. Lancelot was plainly gutted to see Gwen and Arthur all loved-up. Bless. He's such a sweetie! I saw some regret in Gwen's eyes but I honestly don't think it went beyond 'Oh yikes - here's my sort-of-ex. I wonder what might have been? Oh well. Back to my honey.' And the scenes between Arthur and Gwen were positively humming with lovey-doveyness. So how they'll go from this to Gwen being a naughty girl is beyond me. To be honest, I hope they take the Keira Knightly / Clive Owen 'King Arthur' route - ie. the thing between Guinevere and Lancelot never goes beyond looks and her true love is Arthur. I'm all for marital harmony!
I actually saw Gwen's look as different. She loves Arthur, but I think Lancelot turns her on more on a purely physical level.
For me, an intriguing element of Saturday's finale was Gaius's magic.
He was once a sorceror, a fact known by Uther. However I always assumed that Gaius had stopped practicing magic many years before the start of the 1st series (presumably on Uther's orders) and had focused on his physician skills. This is backed up in episode six of the 1st season ("A Remedy To Cure All Ills") when Gaius confronts Edwin with magic, but gets the spell wrong and it is ineffectual. Edwin taunts Gaius with "You've forgotten everything."
But in this series we've seen Gaius use powerful spells on two occasions. I wonder whether he's been holding back all this time and is actually capable of more than we think? And I wonder whether this will be revealed more during the next season?
Guinevere and Lancelot are probably the second most famous love story after Romeo and Juliet. They are the epitome of forbidden love conflicting with duty. If the show doesn't do their love story justice the writers will just be proving they have absolutely no idea about storytelling.
In the original myths yes, this isn't a retelling of the original myths otherwise Arthur would be wielding Excalibur, there wouldn't be a Great Dragon because they didn't exist other than as metaphors (the red dragon -Uther Pendragon) - and the white dragon fighting under what becomes Camelot for example) and Gwen is the daughter of a neighbouring King.
The whole point of THIS Merlin is that it's not a simple retelling of the tales. I'd much rather they examine Lancelot's relationship with Elaine which leads to the birth of Galahad and the whole Lady of Shalott/Tristan and Isolde romance.
Very true. I think I heard Tristan and Isolde (or that version of it anyway) was based on the legend of Lancelot and Guinevere
No, it's the other way around, Tristan and Isolde is the original Irish myth from which it is believed Chretien Le Troyes got his inspiration for Lancelot and Guinevere.
I thought the influence was the other way around and Tristan and Isolde was an older story, but I am not sure. I think there probably was an influence one way or the other. There are similarities between the two.
You would be correct. The original Tristan/Isolde myth turns up in the 12th century but is believed to be based on earlier Welsh legends.
I like the idea of it being unrequited between Lancelot and Gwen.
Fair play to the writers they gave us enough hints in the final episode to let us know that there is definitely a spark between them; to the point where I was feeling sorry for Arthur. I don't know if I felt that way because of the writing or because I know that part of the legend is that Lancelot and Guinevere do fall in love.
The legends don't really tell us how Merlin reacts to the affair so it will be interesting to see what he does when/if he finds out. He loves all three of them and one of the most subtle sub-plots of the series is that he actually helped Arthur to choose two of the most prominent knights for the round table. So I would imagine he will be distraught.
Not that it means anything with this version but In most of the legends Merlin drops hints in advance to Arthur about his wife and best knight possibly one day getting together but Arthur trusts them both absolutely or knows but keeps very quiet as he loves them both. By the time it gets important Merlin has long gone, having been literally enchanted by his own femme fatale.
So who knows where this one's going, whether a family show will 'go there' with Lancelot and Guinevere or indeed Lancelot and Elaine - which could also involve magic as in some versions she made him think he was meeting Guinevere in secret and others she nursed him back to health after being wounded in a joust and he either felt sorry for her being in love with him and/or thought 'why not' as he couldn't have his first choice.
I'm firmly in Team Lancelot. He treats Merlin with respect and isn't an immature bully like Arthur is.
Yes but, not only does Arthur not know of Merlin's magical abilities, he's the future King of Camelot and can't get as close to Merlin on a friendship level as Lancelot and Co. Believe me, Arthur shows more friendship towards Merlin than real-life future kings show towards their servants.
As for Morgana's radical change of behaviour in series 3, it's been suggested in a deleted scene on one of the DVD's that Uther's father suffered from insanity and that Uther himself went on to develop obsessive behaviour over his attitude towards magic. Morgana could simply be following in the footsteps of her father and grandfather.
But then to Morgana, her plans may seem as essential to the kingdom's well-being as Uther's reasons did to him.
Well as mass murderers go, Uther's rather predictable, unlike Morgana. But at least she's a same opportunity person and does not mind who kicks the bucket
Merlin and Arthur is the love story! It is NOT Arthur and Gwen or indeed Lancelot and Gwen. The chemistry between Colin and Brad is plain to see; this is a Gay relationship and is intriguing and unrequited, so it will be interesting to see where this goes in series 4. The other love story is between Merlin and Gius. The female characters although are very good they are inconsequential and incidental to the gay relationship.
Not that it means anything with this version but In most of the legends Merlin drops hints in advance to Arthur about his wife and best knight possibly one day getting together but Arthur trusts them both absolutely or knows but keeps very quiet as he loves them both. By the time it gets important Merlin has long gone, having been literally enchanted by his own femme fatale.
So who knows where this one's going, whether a family show will 'go there' with Lancelot and Guinevere or indeed Lancelot and Elaine - which could also involve magic as in some versions she made him think he was meeting Guinevere in secret and others she nursed him back to health after being wounded in a joust and he either felt sorry for her being in love with him and/or thought 'why not' as he couldn't have his first choice.
Yes but, not only does Arthur not know of Merlin's magical abilities, he's the future King of Camelot and can't get as close to Merlin on a friendship level as Lancelot and Co. Believe me, Arthur shows more friendship towards Merlin than real-life future kings show towards their servants.
Although you could argue that Uther is more modern and relevant than Arthur and Morgana... after all he didn't have a servant whereas the 2 kids did!!
I don't normally read this thread as I am normally a few days behind and don't want to spoil the episodes for myself! However I felt I needed to comment on the finale this week.
After part one, I was convinced it was going to be a complete sell out and follow the tried and tested formula of a 'rewind' episode - I expected merlin to do magic in front of arthur (probably saving his life some how) and arthur reacting badly and banishing merlin, then arthur head off to battle and is killed so merlin somehow manages to turn back time, then we'd have another 3 series of merlin hiding his magic as he thinks arthur will hate him....
I was soo pleased to see that the writers actually did something different, and really mixed up the plot.
Merlin and Arthur is the love story! It is NOT Arthur and Gwen or indeed Lancelot and Gwen. The chemistry between Colin and Brad is plain to see; this is a Gay relationship and is intriguing and unrequited, so it will be interesting to see where this goes in series 4. The other love story is between Merlin and Gius. The female characters although are very good they are inconsequential and incidental to the gay relationship.
Don't be so ridiculous!
Get back to the 'Chryed' thread!
Don't be so ridiculous!
Get back to the 'Chryed' thread!
Well, I believe Merlin found himself a new b/f, Gwaine. He let him sleep in his bed, can't be a while without him. If they had mobile phones, they'd spend most of time calling each other
Well, I believe Merlin found himself a new b/f, Gwaine. He let him sleep in his bed, can't be a while without him. If they had mobile phones, they'd spend most of time calling each other
in fairness, the show is giving slash fans what they want, in terms of Merlin/Arthur & Merlin/Gwaine.
Haha, looks like someone's been fiddling on Wikipedia!!
'Morgause is one of the main antagonists in the BBC and NBC television series, Merlin. She is portrayed as a powerful sorceress, a Machiavellian mastermind and a skilled warrior with incestuous lust for her half-sister, Morgana. She takes advantage of Morgana's bitterness and resentment towards her father, Uther Pendragon to corrupt her into helping Morgause in her quest for power.'
My only complaint with this episode was the drawn out sword fights especially Merlin when he entered the room containing the cup when a flash of magic eyes could have toppled the cup.the writers certainly did a good job ensuring no characters were harmed during the making of this episode so are available for series 4 and leaving with the sword in the stone. The writers have created a whole new version, Merlin and Arthur being the same age, of the legend being very PC. How will they handle the Christian influence which has yet made no impression on the series. We are lucky the Americans like it and buy it to fund another series. (They did not like Robin Hood, can't blame them. Totally miscast)
The Cup of Life looked pretty much like the Holy Grail, IMO. I could not google any connection to druids, but there were a lot of references to Ricky Martin (La copa de la vida)
Comments
Tristan and Isolde is older, the traditional convention is that it influenced the Arthurian romances.
It's kind of funny that Tristan and Isolde have been absorbed into the Arthurian legends and have become a 'side story' when they're the 'original'
*puts up hand*
I like the idea of it being unrequited between Lancelot and Gwen.
Fair play to the writers they gave us enough hints in the final episode to let us know that there is definitely a spark between them; to the point where I was feeling sorry for Arthur. I don't know if I felt that way because of the writing or because I know that part of the legend is that Lancelot and Guinevere do fall in love.
The legends don't really tell us how Merlin reacts to the affair so it will be interesting to see what he does when/if he finds out. He loves all three of them and one of the most subtle sub-plots of the series is that he actually helped Arthur to choose two of the most prominent knights for the round table. So I would imagine he will be distraught.
I know what you mean, and it is hard to imagine that Morgana could, for instance, so casually talk of killing Gwen, her personal servant and onetime dearest friend, when in the first two series we saw her show such care for her. I think the only way to explain it is complete indoctrination by Morgause during her "missing year".
Cenred had a verbal slip in which he suggested it would be he who ruled Camelot. It was Morgana that Morgause wanted as ruler in Camelot, so once Cenred had served his purpose, she disposed of him as a possible rival.
But then to Morgana, her plans may seem as essential to the kingdom's well-being as Uther's reasons did to him.
Arthur may not allow magic immediately. Indeed, why would he? He's just had further proof of how dangerous, evil and destructive it is, and he doesn't know that Merlin and Gaius used magic in his cause.
I actually saw Gwen's look as different. She loves Arthur, but I think Lancelot turns her on more on a purely physical level.
Gwen clearly likes Lance a lot
Couldn't somene just break open the stone?
Or he could have just magiced it over?
The Pendragons do not appear to be that intelligent.
He was once a sorceror, a fact known by Uther. However I always assumed that Gaius had stopped practicing magic many years before the start of the 1st series (presumably on Uther's orders) and had focused on his physician skills. This is backed up in episode six of the 1st season ("A Remedy To Cure All Ills") when Gaius confronts Edwin with magic, but gets the spell wrong and it is ineffectual. Edwin taunts Gaius with "You've forgotten everything."
But in this series we've seen Gaius use powerful spells on two occasions. I wonder whether he's been holding back all this time and is actually capable of more than we think? And I wonder whether this will be revealed more during the next season?
In the original myths yes, this isn't a retelling of the original myths otherwise Arthur would be wielding Excalibur, there wouldn't be a Great Dragon because they didn't exist other than as metaphors (the red dragon -Uther Pendragon) - and the white dragon fighting under what becomes Camelot for example) and Gwen is the daughter of a neighbouring King.
The whole point of THIS Merlin is that it's not a simple retelling of the tales. I'd much rather they examine Lancelot's relationship with Elaine which leads to the birth of Galahad and the whole Lady of Shalott/Tristan and Isolde romance.
No, it's the other way around, Tristan and Isolde is the original Irish myth from which it is believed Chretien Le Troyes got his inspiration for Lancelot and Guinevere.
You would be correct. The original Tristan/Isolde myth turns up in the 12th century but is believed to be based on earlier Welsh legends.
Not that it means anything with this version but In most of the legends Merlin drops hints in advance to Arthur about his wife and best knight possibly one day getting together but Arthur trusts them both absolutely or knows but keeps very quiet as he loves them both. By the time it gets important Merlin has long gone, having been literally enchanted by his own femme fatale.
So who knows where this one's going, whether a family show will 'go there' with Lancelot and Guinevere or indeed Lancelot and Elaine - which could also involve magic as in some versions she made him think he was meeting Guinevere in secret and others she nursed him back to health after being wounded in a joust and he either felt sorry for her being in love with him and/or thought 'why not' as he couldn't have his first choice.
Yes but, not only does Arthur not know of Merlin's magical abilities, he's the future King of Camelot and can't get as close to Merlin on a friendship level as Lancelot and Co. Believe me, Arthur shows more friendship towards Merlin than real-life future kings show towards their servants.
As for Morgana's radical change of behaviour in series 3, it's been suggested in a deleted scene on one of the DVD's that Uther's father suffered from insanity and that Uther himself went on to develop obsessive behaviour over his attitude towards magic. Morgana could simply be following in the footsteps of her father and grandfather.
Well as mass murderers go, Uther's rather predictable, unlike Morgana. But at least she's a same opportunity person and does not mind who kicks the bucket
Uther kills thousands of innocent magical people but is happy to use magic when desperate (that ep where he asked Gaius to cure Morgana?)
Morgana complains about Uther's treatment of innocent people, but she'll happy kill thousands to get what she wants!
After part one, I was convinced it was going to be a complete sell out and follow the tried and tested formula of a 'rewind' episode - I expected merlin to do magic in front of arthur (probably saving his life some how) and arthur reacting badly and banishing merlin, then arthur head off to battle and is killed so merlin somehow manages to turn back time, then we'd have another 3 series of merlin hiding his magic as he thinks arthur will hate him....
I was soo pleased to see that the writers actually did something different, and really mixed up the plot.
It was fantastic tv.
Don't be so ridiculous!
Get back to the 'Chryed' thread!
Well, I believe Merlin found himself a new b/f, Gwaine. He let him sleep in his bed, can't be a while without him. If they had mobile phones, they'd spend most of time calling each other
Gwaine reminds me of Captain Jack.
'Morgause is one of the main antagonists in the BBC and NBC television series, Merlin. She is portrayed as a powerful sorceress, a Machiavellian mastermind and a skilled warrior with incestuous lust for her half-sister, Morgana. She takes advantage of Morgana's bitterness and resentment towards her father, Uther Pendragon to corrupt her into helping Morgause in her quest for power.'