"The killing of Steenkamp, 29, has highlighted South Africa's dismal record of violence against women: on average, a woman is raped every four minutes and one is killed every eight hours by her partner or relative."
The Guardian
I read, with horror, last night http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/9884500/Oscar-Pistorius-inside-Pretoria-Central-Prison.html and thought that was bad enough. "One young inmate, who was not named, told the judge in a hearing on February 4 at Pretoria High Court that he feared for his life in jail, that he had been raped several times and also contracted HIV." It's one scary place according to that article. Very little, if any, medical care offered.
I thought the UK Domestic Abuse statistics were high, it pales by comparison to SA.
tweets: Yet to meet anyone who thinks #OscarPistorius won't get bail. Prosecution simply pushing defence to reveal their case before full trial.
which makes a lot of sense. the prosecution are just trying to get as much information as they can about the defence case and get them to commit to their position now.
You mean the dramatic sobbing that magically disappeared the day the defence team had Botha on the ropes?
I haven't read the article yet, but I don't think prison conditions should be taken into account when considering his bail if they aren't considered for other disabled bail applicants. He shouldn't get special treatment for being famous.
BIB1 That is your interpretation of his demeanor. I made mine based on what I saw reported & have given no indication as to whether I think he should get bail, or whether I think he is guilty. I'd prefer to hear the full evidence at trial first.
BIB2 Where did I say he should get special treatment? I merely agreed with a poster that the conditions described in an article were horrifying and, in my opinion, unacceptable for any human being.
He feels so scared -scared enough to confront an intruder in the dark,without his legs on! Sure.
"I got my legs in the bedroomand it occured to me it could be Reeva in there" Could be?! COULD?! WTF! If it wasn't her in there and she wasn't in bed where did he think she was?
His 4 bullets passing through the locked door without him being able to aim at the target are supposed to have scored 4 hits, none of them missing an unseen target, with hits to the knee, hand, arm, and the fatal head shot.
Shooting at an unseen target through a locked door, despite shooting into a confined space, the relatively small toilet cubicle, you would be lucky to secure 1 hit out of 4, with 3 bullets missing the target altogether. Indeed, all 4 might miss the target, and if 1 did hit, it could not be so precisely positioned, and would most likely hit the target somewhere in the torso, where the target is largest.
OP secured the best hits for immobilising the target and removing any potential weapon and then to kill the target.
His 4 hits are like those you would get if you were a very good shot aiming at a target, such as the target areas you would aim at on a pistol range with an blacked out target, the intruder type of target but just the outline.
You would see to hit the knee to immobilise the intruder, then hit the hand in case he had a gun, then the other arm in case he had another, then the head shot to kill the intruder.
Firing through a locked door at an unseen target just is not going to get those hits.
What I think really happened is that he was under the apprehension that there was an intruder and shot Reeva, to immobile the intruder, disarm him and then kill him. He shot her through the open toilet door with his pistol training taking over as if under "automatic pilot" and did not stop until he delivered the head shot, the fatal shot.
She was holding her mobile phone in her hand and he mistook this for a gun, and acted in self defence, but also with an "irresistible impulse" to kill the intruder.
The light may have been dim, and he saw the outline of a figure and shot at it. Only after the 4 bullets were discharged and the figure fell down dead, did he realise it was Reeva.
He then became rational again and realised this looked very bad, so he took her downstairs and then came up with the story that he shot through a locked door and could not tell if it was her. So, he went back and shot 4 extra bullets through the door, picked up the extra cartridges and bullets and flushed them down the toilet. He also tried to hide her mobile phone.
He thought it would look like her intended to kill her if he would admit to shooting through an open door, but he could have the defence of self defence and diminished responsibility.
This explains the 2 sets of 4 shots 17 minutes apart.
His apprenhension was that what he saw was an intruder. Acting under an irresistible impulse, he would not have even realised when he got out of bed that she was not there.
Botha went with the story of the bullets being shot through the closed door, but he is no great brain, The new guy might be able to work out that it does not add up to the precision of the hits to Reeva.
APPARENTLY if he gets bail his trainer has said he will be back training tomorrow!!!
So he doesnt need time to grieve over the apparent accidental death of his girlfriend :rolleyes:
No doubt the uncontrollable sobbing will stop too as he relaxes in his mansion receiving various phone calls from special friends ensuring him anyone even slightly troublesome at the trial will have "a Botha" done on them.
11.55 Our chief foreign correspondent in London David Blair comments:
"If he is granted bail, that would be a highly unusual, although not unprecedented decision. He has been accused of premeditated murder under schedule six of South Africa's criminal procedure act. That means the onus is on Pistorius to show why he deserves bail - and it can only be granted under "exceptional circumstances". Nonetheless the mood music suggests that the magistrate will probably find in his favour."
You mean the dramatic sobbing that magically disappeared the day the defence team had Botha on the ropes?
I haven't read the article yet, but I don't think prison conditions should be taken into account when considering his bail if they aren't considered for other disabled bail applicants. He shouldn't get special treatment for being famous.
I think maybe you should read the article,
I changed my mind about bail after reading that.
Edit: and not just because he's disabled, I don't think anyone, disabled or not, should be put somewhere like that.
I read, with horror, last night http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/9884500/Oscar-Pistorius-inside-Pretoria-Central-Prison.html and thought that was bad enough. "One young inmate, who was not named, told the judge in a hearing on February 4 at Pretoria High Court that he feared for his life in jail, that he had been raped several times and also contracted HIV." It's one scary place according to that article. Very little, if any, medical care offered.
I thought the UK Domestic Abuse statistics were high, it pales by comparison to SA.
Politically it's being taken very seriously. The minister for women and children Lulu Xingwana was in court on the first day.
BIB1 That is your interpretation of his demeanor. I made mine based on what I saw reported & have given no indication as to whether I think he should get bail, or whether I think he is guilty. I'd prefer to hear the full evidence at trial first.
BIB2 Where did I say he should get special treatment? I merely agreed with a poster that the conditions described in an article were horrifying and, in my opinion, unacceptable for any human being.
Only the first part of my post was a response to yours. The second part was unrelated to what you had said. At the time of posting, I did think about separating my thoughts into two posts but I don't like making multiple posts one after the other. I should have done in this case though to avoid confusion.
I think maybe you should read the article,
I changed my mind about bail after reading that.
After reading the article, I am now convinced he will get bail. I still don't think he should get bail if the decision is based on prison conidtions: why should he get different treatment because he is rich?
It was pitch dark in the bedroom and I thought Reeva was in bed.
If it was pitch dark in the bedroom, where there was more outside artificial light (presuming the complex was lit) able to get in through the large patio doors, than the smaller bathroom window, it still doesnt hold water to me.
11.55 Our chief foreign correspondent in London David Blair comments:
"If he is granted bail, that would be a highly unusual, although not unprecedented decision. He has been accused of premeditated murder under schedule six of South Africa's criminal procedure act. That means the onus is on Pistorius to show why he deserves bail - and it can only be granted under "exceptional circumstances". Nonetheless the mood music suggests that the magistrate will probably find in his favour."
You mean the dramatic sobbing that magically disappeared the day the defence team had Botha on the ropes?
I haven't read the article yet, but I don't think prison conditions should be taken into account when considering his bail if they aren't considered for other disabled bail applicants. He shouldn't get special treatment for being famous.
What "dramatic sobbing"?
Early reports of sobbing tuned out to be untrue.
He held his head in his hands. Is that what you mean by "dramatic sobbing"?
If you have a link to footage of a sudden and dramatic change in demeanour, by all means post it.
But the last thing this discussion needs is wild exaggeration and overly emotive spin based on third hand hearsay.
Comments
Yes there is evidence of it. I provided it earlier in the thread. Much earlier. On the day it came up at the hearing.
Evidence
Not only will he get bail, he won't be jailed after the trail either. No way would the powers that be subject their national hero to that.
I read, with horror, last night http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/9884500/Oscar-Pistorius-inside-Pretoria-Central-Prison.html and thought that was bad enough. "One young inmate, who was not named, told the judge in a hearing on February 4 at Pretoria High Court that he feared for his life in jail, that he had been raped several times and also contracted HIV." It's one scary place according to that article. Very little, if any, medical care offered.
I thought the UK Domestic Abuse statistics were high, it pales by comparison to SA.
tweets: Yet to meet anyone who thinks #OscarPistorius won't get bail. Prosecution simply pushing defence to reveal their case before full trial.
which makes a lot of sense. the prosecution are just trying to get as much information as they can about the defence case and get them to commit to their position now.
That's hardly suprising seeing as he didn't bother checking where she was.
BIB1 That is your interpretation of his demeanor. I made mine based on what I saw reported & have given no indication as to whether I think he should get bail, or whether I think he is guilty. I'd prefer to hear the full evidence at trial first.
BIB2 Where did I say he should get special treatment? I merely agreed with a poster that the conditions described in an article were horrifying and, in my opinion, unacceptable for any human being.
"I got my legs in the bedroomand it occured to me it could be Reeva in there" Could be?! COULD?! WTF! If it wasn't her in there and she wasn't in bed where did he think she was?
Absolutely terrifying thought isn't it. Off my holiday list for sure.
Shooting at an unseen target through a locked door, despite shooting into a confined space, the relatively small toilet cubicle, you would be lucky to secure 1 hit out of 4, with 3 bullets missing the target altogether. Indeed, all 4 might miss the target, and if 1 did hit, it could not be so precisely positioned, and would most likely hit the target somewhere in the torso, where the target is largest.
OP secured the best hits for immobilising the target and removing any potential weapon and then to kill the target.
His 4 hits are like those you would get if you were a very good shot aiming at a target, such as the target areas you would aim at on a pistol range with an blacked out target, the intruder type of target but just the outline.
You would see to hit the knee to immobilise the intruder, then hit the hand in case he had a gun, then the other arm in case he had another, then the head shot to kill the intruder.
Firing through a locked door at an unseen target just is not going to get those hits.
What I think really happened is that he was under the apprehension that there was an intruder and shot Reeva, to immobile the intruder, disarm him and then kill him. He shot her through the open toilet door with his pistol training taking over as if under "automatic pilot" and did not stop until he delivered the head shot, the fatal shot.
She was holding her mobile phone in her hand and he mistook this for a gun, and acted in self defence, but also with an "irresistible impulse" to kill the intruder.
The light may have been dim, and he saw the outline of a figure and shot at it. Only after the 4 bullets were discharged and the figure fell down dead, did he realise it was Reeva.
He then became rational again and realised this looked very bad, so he took her downstairs and then came up with the story that he shot through a locked door and could not tell if it was her. So, he went back and shot 4 extra bullets through the door, picked up the extra cartridges and bullets and flushed them down the toilet. He also tried to hide her mobile phone.
He thought it would look like her intended to kill her if he would admit to shooting through an open door, but he could have the defence of self defence and diminished responsibility.
This explains the 2 sets of 4 shots 17 minutes apart.
His apprenhension was that what he saw was an intruder. Acting under an irresistible impulse, he would not have even realised when he got out of bed that she was not there.
Botha went with the story of the bullets being shot through the closed door, but he is no great brain, The new guy might be able to work out that it does not add up to the precision of the hits to Reeva.
No doubt the uncontrollable sobbing will stop too as he relaxes in his mansion receiving various phone calls from special friends ensuring him anyone even slightly troublesome at the trial will have "a Botha" done on them.
If TPTB had that much influence then OP wouldn't be facing a murder charge.
Guardian
Youtube channel will broadcast ruling live
If you say so.
I think maybe you should read the article,
I changed my mind about bail after reading that.
Edit: and not just because he's disabled, I don't think anyone, disabled or not, should be put somewhere like that.
Do you have a source for this apparent statement?
That's also all about it as a sex-aid product as far as I can see,, not an "athletic recovery".
How can it be homoeopathic is it has, you know, ingredients other than water?
Politically it's being taken very seriously. The minister for women and children Lulu Xingwana was in court on the first day.
Only the first part of my post was a response to yours. The second part was unrelated to what you had said. At the time of posting, I did think about separating my thoughts into two posts but I don't like making multiple posts one after the other. I should have done in this case though to avoid confusion.
I assumed it was part of some legal definition, at least in SA, as the prosecution specifically cited "premeditated murder".
In purely practical and legal terms, absolutely.
But in this case, I think there's a big difference between him shooting who he thought was an intruder, and shooting his girlfriend.
After reading the article, I am now convinced he will get bail. I still don't think he should get bail if the decision is based on prison conidtions: why should he get different treatment because he is rich?
It clearly says "Performance enhancement, Recovery."
It is a testosterone booster not actually testosterone.
Testosterone repairs and builds muscle.
Other than anecdotal evidence that I know people who use it as part of their "fitness" regime that's all I can provide.
If it was pitch dark in the bedroom, where there was more outside artificial light (presuming the complex was lit) able to get in through the large patio doors, than the smaller bathroom window, it still doesnt hold water to me.
I may have posted that earlier
What "dramatic sobbing"?
Early reports of sobbing tuned out to be untrue.
He held his head in his hands. Is that what you mean by "dramatic sobbing"?
If you have a link to footage of a sudden and dramatic change in demeanour, by all means post it.
But the last thing this discussion needs is wild exaggeration and overly emotive spin based on third hand hearsay.