Plot hole or no plot hole?

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 566
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According the SFX teasers:
10 There’s a major story element that some will decry as a massive plot hole and others will embrace on a metaphorical level

I was on the lookout for this throughout the whole episode and I still haven't been able to identify it, so maybe I'm just a bit dense.

The only thing I can think of on a metaphorical level is the idea of the monster being a manifestation of Van Gogh's mental illness. I can easily understand that on the metaphorical level, but I don't see how that could be a massive plot hole. So what did I miss?

Also, at some point, the doctor says that there's something he's missing but we don't find out what. I think it was shortly before the monster was killed, although I'm not entirely sure. What did he miss?
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 106
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    I can only think it was his use of Rory, while talking to Vincent in the church.

    The thing I think he missed was that the monster was blind. He 'could' have known that seeing the results of the monster pulverizing the arch in the village, and falling over the stuff he had thrown on the ground.
  • PorkSausagePorkSausage Posts: 2,656
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    Vincent's Scottish accent.

    Although there is strange bit of continuity. Doctor does back to the tardis at night, and comes out quite soon in the morning.
  • TalmaTalma Posts: 10,520
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    Vincent's Scottish accent.

    Although there is strange bit of continuity. Doctor does back to the tardis at night, and comes out quite soon in the morning.

    I wondered about that...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 419
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    Talma wrote: »
    I wondered about that...

    So did I. Also that Amy came up behind him when he had told her to stay at Vincent's house.

    But perhaps it's just that it was never fully explained why only Van Gogh could see the alien, which could be a plot hole or on a metaphysical level we can understand that Van Gogh sees more than everyone else.
  • IvanIVIvanIV Posts: 30,310
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    None of that is really a plot hole IMO :confused:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,138
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    Bobsir wrote: »
    The only thing I can think of on a metaphorical level is the idea of the monster being a manifestation of Van Gogh's mental illness. I can easily understand that on the metaphorical level, but I don't see how that could be a massive plot hole. So what did I miss?


    Having read the episode thread I think it's the Monster.
  • cctpscctps Posts: 1,495
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    For me, I think it was where Vincent tells Amy she's lost someone, and she cries without realising...

    I thought it was a really nice moment, however, some could ask why she would cry if he simply never existed. And how would Vincent assume she'd lost someone?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 604
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    Bobsir wrote: »
    The only thing I can think of on a metaphorical level is the idea of the monster being a manifestation of Van Gogh's mental illness. I can easily understand that on the metaphorical level, but I don't see how that could be a massive plot hole. So what did I miss?

    The hole is that if it is his 'monster from the id' then how come the Dr not only sees it but actually ID's it?

    Though, when was the last time he had to look a monster up?
  • tingramretrotingramretro Posts: 10,974
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    Benjolex wrote: »
    So did I. Also that Amy came up behind him when he had told her to stay at Vincent's house.

    But perhaps it's just that it was never fully explained why only Van Gogh could see the alien, which could be a plot hole or on a metaphysical level we can understand that Van Gogh sees more than everyone else.

    Remember the scene where Vincent says he can hear colours? That's a recognised condition called Synesthesia, in which the senses become mixed up. It's possible this was why Vincent could 'see' the invisible creature.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,186
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    The only thing i noticed and i couldn't work out if it was a mistake or not, is when they are all on the grass looking at the night sky and he paints The Starry Night in his mind is that he had already painted it and it was up in his house as i noticed it behind Amy at one point.. that is the only thing i was a bit confused by..
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,004
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    As soon as the blind reveal happened I immediately thought "well how is the monster finding Vincent Van Gogh all the time?"

    Was that ever explained? If so I missed it.
  • TalmaTalma Posts: 10,520
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    Benjolex wrote: »
    So did I. Also that Amy came up behind him when he had told her to stay at Vincent's house.

    That's nothing unusual! She not only doesn't do what she's told, she deliberately doesn't do it. I know most companions have done that now and again but not so blatantly.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 81
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    Interesting combination of the man with such incredible, extraordinary vision coupled with a monster who was blind. Might be something in it.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 13
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    From what I've read in various reviews, the plot hole repeatedly questioned seems to be that no explanation is given for Van Gogh's ability to see the alien. This makes the most sense, as the 'metaphorical' level will be associating this ability with his Synesthesia or possibly his 'demons'.
  • CoalHillJanitorCoalHillJanitor Posts: 15,634
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    Arpie wrote: »
    Interesting combination of the man with such incredible, extraordinary vision coupled with a monster who was blind. Might be something in it.
    granny_mac wrote: »
    From what I've read in various reviews, the plot hole repeatedly questioned seems to be that no explanation is given for Van Gogh's ability to see the alien. This makes the most sense, as the 'metaphorical' level will be associating this ability with his Synesthesia or possibly his 'demons'.

    Yes, I thought there was a whole metaphor of vision and blindness in relation to art, which carried over into the literal way that nature somehow revealed more of its secrets to Vincent's sight than to other people's.
  • PorkSausagePorkSausage Posts: 2,656
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    Come to think of it, pointless thread this.

    Never, ever, any plotholes in Dr Who.;)
  • Granny McSmithGranny McSmith Posts: 19,622
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    granny_mac wrote: »
    From what I've read in various reviews, the plot hole repeatedly questioned seems to be that no explanation is given for Van Gogh's ability to see the alien. This makes the most sense, as the 'metaphorical' level will be associating this ability with his Synesthesia or possibly his 'demons'.

    Its true there is no overt explanation, but Vincent is portrayed as being able to see more and deeper than anyone else in the world around him.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,138
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    Its true there is no overt explanation, but Vincent is portrayed as being able to see more and deeper than anyone else in the world around him.

    Like Amy's sadness. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,004
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    I posted earlier but got ignored ...

    I really think the plot hole referred to in SFX is how the monster seemed to follow Van Gogh around despite being blind
  • Granny McSmithGranny McSmith Posts: 19,622
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    Pres.F wrote: »
    I posted earlier but got ignored ...

    I really think the plot hole referred to in SFX is how the monster seemed to follow Van Gogh around despite being blind

    Did it? I thought it was just in the same town. At one point it was following the Doctor. And the Doc, Amy and Vincent followed it to the church.
  • sertonserton Posts: 730
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    Could it not be the fact Amy said she would follow the Doctor and yet in the next scene hasn't moved an inch ;)

    Nah, I'm lost as to what it could be
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 566
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    Vincent's Scottish accent.

    Although there is strange bit of continuity. Doctor does back to the tardis at night, and comes out quite soon in the morning.
    I also wondered about that. It's quite clear that it's the morning as Amy talks about Vincent's snoring but that might simply have something to do with the fact that the Doctor took so long.
    cctps wrote: »
    For me, I think it was where Vincent tells Amy she's lost someone, and she cries without realising...

    I thought it was a really nice moment, however, some could ask why she would cry if he simply never existed. And how would Vincent assume she'd lost someone?
    I'm not sure there's anything metaphorical about that. Even if he never existed, she would have been able to hold onto Rory's memory had it not been for the TARDIS landing, so I suppose somewhere in her subconscious, she realises that she's sad but doesn't know why.

    Vincent knowing that she is sad when she doesn't even recognise it is simple enough. He can see sadness because it is always around him or something else.
    Pres.F wrote: »
    As soon as the blind reveal happened I immediately thought "well how is the monster finding Vincent Van Gogh all the time?"

    Was that ever explained? If so I missed it.
    I don't think it was ever explained. Although I think there was a mention of increased hearing but I'm not sure. I'll need to rewatch it.
    Pres.F wrote: »
    I posted earlier but got ignored ...

    I really think the plot hole referred to in SFX is how the monster seemed to follow Van Gogh around despite being blind
    See above.
    serton wrote: »
    Could it not be the fact Amy said she would follow the Doctor and yet in the next scene hasn't moved an inch ;)

    Nah, I'm lost as to what it could be
    But she did follow him/
  • TMLS313TMLS313 Posts: 3,990
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    For me this referred to the "For Amy" on the vase in the Sunflowers painting. The hole being that it's not on (any of) the actual painting(s), but was a metaphor towards how Van Gogh painting pictures based on a particular inspiration.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 566
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    TMLS313 wrote: »
    For me this referred to the "For Amy" on the vase in the Sunflowers painting. The hole being that it's not on (any of) the actual painting(s), but was a metaphor towards how Van Gogh painting pictures based on a particular inspiration.

    Actually you might have a point, not on a metaphorical level but as a continuity into the finale.
    I can't find the exact words, but a Van Gogh painting apparently carries a warning or a prophecy to the Doctor in the finale.
  • sertonserton Posts: 730
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    Bobsir wrote: »
    But she did follow him/

    Eventually, but not straight away as she intimated to Vincent
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