I think maybe half the people on thread are happy for prayer to be extended to a non theist context and half think that wouldn't really be prayer.
That's OK. I guess that makes the thread really just for Christians - but I guess that's OK too.
It's nice to be able to swap ideas without anyone having to be right or wrong. There's not many religious threads where it's possible to do that.
I created it for anyone. Not just Christians. The couple below me, the female is a Christian but the male isn't. But he regularly asks her to pray for things. Similar here. Infact I guess I created it more for non believers who have prayer requests (because it does happen) but maybe don't have anyone to request it to. Likelyhood is Christians. Though I don't want to discouredge Christians from posting on here, all prayer topics are important to me and I dare say a few others on here.
It doesn't interest you at all. You just see these people as easy to ridicule and pour scorn on because you think using "backup and prove" to fire salvos at them provides you with some kind of unassailable superiority over them.
No as usual that is just your imagination. I can't answer for your imagination.
Join me in the real world and I might be able to answer your questions.
"unassailable"? Well it no religious person since religion was invented has ever assailed it. That is actual fact, not an opinion mine or anyone else. So perhaps you would make better progress looking at why that is. I mean I know why, but that seems to be the answer to avoid at all costs.
All you do is complain about me as you simply have nothing else to offer. (That should tell you everything as well)
No as usual that is just your imagination. I can't answer for your imagination.
Join me in the real world and I might be able to answer your questions.
"unassailable"? Well it no religious person since religion was invented has ever assailed it. That is actual fact, not an opinion mine or anyone else. So perhaps you would make better progress looking at why that is. I mean I know why, but that seems to be the answer to avoid at all costs.
All you do is complain about me as you simply have nothing else to offer. (That should tell you everything as well)
All you do is complain that people are different from you.
If there is some kind of 'afterlife', ie the human mind or spirit somehow surving the death of the human body, why does it have to be religon-based, as in a heaven or a hell?
Could it not be some form of science that we are yet in 2012 able to comprehend? After all, man's existence in the first place, in the form of evolution, took ages for man to understand, indeed many still haven't cottoned on to it. So if there is an afterlife of sorts, perhaps we just haven't been able to identify it yet or the scientific process behind it
Kind of the way I see it too. IF there is an afterlife I think it is more about a gradual spiritual progression, not a one chance ticket. Even the most evil people can atone and move on eventually, there's no eternal heaven or hell, things just evolve.
No as usual that is just your imagination. I can't answer for your imagination.
Join me in the real world and I might be able to answer your questions.
"unassailable"? Well it no religious person since religion was invented has ever assailed it. That is actual fact, not an opinion mine or anyone else. So perhaps you would make better progress looking at why that is. I mean I know why, but that seems to be the answer to avoid at all costs.
All you do is complain about me as you simply have nothing else to offer. (That should tell you everything as well)
Kolin, trudging round the forum calling religious people deluded, mentally ill, having OCD etc etc like you do has you pretty much pegged as somebody very much anti-religion, that's obvious. Your post above is as empty in content as all the others on the subject. Look at atheists like Richard46, Batgirl and Stiffy78, who interact with the religious people just fine, even if they take the opposing view on almost every facet of faith matters. They understand it, even if they don't accept it.
Your position seems to be completely adversarial, with the old favourite stance of trying to force evidence and backup and proof from a concept that does not have any. You either know this and are trolling therefore, or you don't know this because you have no understanding of it. If its the latter, try and learn something. If it's the former ... Just leave them alone eh?
I don't pray every day, but when I do pray it's because I feel I need some "help". I don't mean material help, but when I, or a family member/friend, is having a tough time and I feel God's presence will help guide me/us through.
I'm not part of any religion, but I do have my beliefs.
Asking who? If no gods are involved, you're asking yourself, in which case it's still not prayer.
It is hard to explain but I am asking for answers. I might not get any, sometimes I do get answers, it might just have come from my brain/mind or it might have been given to me by something spiritual, I do not know. Hell, maybe I am the God and I am praying to myself!!
Folk might think I come across as crackers but it helps me, especially in upsetting/ distressing situations. it helps me to make sense of things and gives me a bit of peace.
I pray to God in a quite colloquial fashion. I don't really "worship" him as such, I see him as more of a guide who I can speak to when I'm having a tough time.
I don't go in for all the kneeling and bowing. I'm not knocking anyone who does that, but if I did that, I'd feel my God would be telling me to get back up.
Kolin, trudging round the forum calling religious people deluded, mentally ill, having OCD etc etc like you do has you pretty much pegged as somebody very much anti-religion, that's obvious. Your post above is as empty in content as all the others on the subject. Look at atheists like Richard46, Batgirl and Stiffy78, who interact with the religious people just fine, even if they take the opposing view on almost every facet of faith matters. They understand it, even if they don't accept it.
Your position seems to be completely adversarial, with the old favourite stance of trying to force evidence and backup and proof from a concept that does not have any. You either know this and are trolling therefore, or you don't know this because you have no understanding of it. If its the latter, try and learn something. If it's the former ... Just leave them alone eh?
It would be more accurate to say that other atheists have moderated their approach to the religious, of late. This effort has been assisted by alan29 and his sardonic remarks.
It is apparent that not all religious persons are fundies. It is also apparent that there is more credence given to spiritual disciplines like yoga and Buddhism, and Christianity shares the reflected glow. (Although the Dalai Lama has made it clear that in his view Buddhists do not believe in God, or not in the Judaeo- Christian concept).
In addition quantum physics (okay, that no one really understands) hints that the universe is more complex than we knew, so it is naïve to say reality is just one way and not the other.
Finally, Christians themselves have changed politically and socially over the years, making it harder to stereotype a believer. One could be a liberal gay vegan who practices hot yoga and meditates and whose partner is of a different race.
I had promised myself to stay out of this thread not because I am an atheist but because I have no interest in why others pray.
I only posted earlier because the threads resurrection was immediately used by one poster; without immediate provocation to make comments about non-believers.
However if the thread is used again to make any kind of negative comments about me by name I think it will be quite reasonable for me to respond on this thread. I hope that does not happen as it will inevitably take the thread OT which would be a shame for those who are interested.
Peace
Edit not referring to treme's comments but the obvious reference to them in a reply.
It would be more accurate to say that other atheists have moderated their approach to the religious, of late. This effort has been assisted by alan29 and his sardonic remarks.
As I'm one of the named ones I'm just going to pop in and say that my approach has not altered at all over the years.
I had promised myself to stay out of this thread not because I am an atheist but because I have no interest in why others pray.
I only posted earlier because the threads resurrection was immediately used by one poster; without immediate provocation to make comments about non-believers.
However if the thread is used again to make any kind of negative comments about me by name I think it will be quite reasonable for me to respond on this thread. I hope that does not happen as it will inevitably take the thread OT which would be a shame for those who are interested.
Peace
Edit not referring to treme's comments but the obvious reference to them in a reply.
If you are referring to my post I was not referencing you but those who are fond of denigrating terms like flying spaghetti monster, unicorns and such. That I think we see less of lately.
If people want to say that they themselves only believe what is scientifically proven that is okay with me. Or even if they want to say they do not understand how the religious think as they do. Because I am unable to think like an atheist. My brain does not allow it.
I myself do not think like some other religious people but I accept them.
If you are referring to my post I was not referencing you but those who are fond of denigrating terms like flying spaghetti monster, unicorns and such. That I think we see less of lately.
If people want to say that they themselves only believe what is scientifically proven that is okay with me. Or even if they want to say they do not understand how the religious think as they do. Because I am unable to think like an atheist. My brain does not allow it.
I've never quite understood the flying spaghetti monster thing. People haven't been reporting mystical and transcendental experiences for centuries that involved that particular entity so why is it even brought up. If the purpose is to say, it's silly to believe in A because I can invent B which is equally unfalsifiable and charicatured sounding whats to stop me from dismissing the multiverse hypothesis using something equally ridiculous sounding.
I've never quite understood the flying spaghetti monster thing. People haven't been reporting mystical and transcendental experiences for centuries that involved that particular entity so why is it even brought up. If the purpose is to say, it's silly to believe in A because I can invent B which is equally unfalsifiable and charicatured sounding whats to stop me from dismissing the multiverse hypothesis using something equally ridiculous sounding.
I think that is the point, to compare religious experience to something a normal person would be embarrassed to be associated with. That is the objective of ridicule. Recall some political ads that can be quite influential, even destroy someone's reputation.
But I digress and some may want to talk about prayer.
Comments
You're talking to probably the only Christian on here who has everything Frankie Boyle's ever done on DVD!
It matters not. Christians have a sense of humour too.
Ahhh you're a bigger buzz kill than Buzz Killington...*Cutaway*...*Holds head in one hand and lets out long sigh*.
Can I not be Buzz Lightyear?
Was a Family Guy reference. Take it you're not a fan?
More of a Simpsons fan really, sorry.
Darn Diddley Christians!
Hi-diddly-ho Neihbourooney!
Shut Up Flanders!
Okely Dokely!!
I think maybe half the people on thread are happy for prayer to be extended to a non theist context and half think that wouldn't really be prayer.
That's OK. I guess that makes the thread really just for Christians - but I guess that's OK too.
It's nice to be able to swap ideas without anyone having to be right or wrong. There's not many religious threads where it's possible to do that.
I do love his relationship with Rev Lovejoy "Probably swallowed a tooth pick...Helloooo Ned..."
I created it for anyone. Not just Christians. The couple below me, the female is a Christian but the male isn't. But he regularly asks her to pray for things. Similar here. Infact I guess I created it more for non believers who have prayer requests (because it does happen) but maybe don't have anyone to request it to. Likelyhood is Christians. Though I don't want to discouredge Christians from posting on here, all prayer topics are important to me and I dare say a few others on here.
No as usual that is just your imagination. I can't answer for your imagination.
Join me in the real world and I might be able to answer your questions.
"unassailable"? Well it no religious person since religion was invented has ever assailed it. That is actual fact, not an opinion mine or anyone else. So perhaps you would make better progress looking at why that is. I mean I know why, but that seems to be the answer to avoid at all costs.
All you do is complain about me as you simply have nothing else to offer. (That should tell you everything as well)
All you do is complain that people are different from you.
Kind of the way I see it too. IF there is an afterlife I think it is more about a gradual spiritual progression, not a one chance ticket. Even the most evil people can atone and move on eventually, there's no eternal heaven or hell, things just evolve.
Kolin, trudging round the forum calling religious people deluded, mentally ill, having OCD etc etc like you do has you pretty much pegged as somebody very much anti-religion, that's obvious. Your post above is as empty in content as all the others on the subject. Look at atheists like Richard46, Batgirl and Stiffy78, who interact with the religious people just fine, even if they take the opposing view on almost every facet of faith matters. They understand it, even if they don't accept it.
Your position seems to be completely adversarial, with the old favourite stance of trying to force evidence and backup and proof from a concept that does not have any. You either know this and are trolling therefore, or you don't know this because you have no understanding of it. If its the latter, try and learn something. If it's the former ... Just leave them alone eh?
I'm not part of any religion, but I do have my beliefs.
It is hard to explain but I am asking for answers. I might not get any, sometimes I do get answers, it might just have come from my brain/mind or it might have been given to me by something spiritual, I do not know. Hell, maybe I am the God and I am praying to myself!!
Folk might think I come across as crackers but it helps me, especially in upsetting/ distressing situations. it helps me to make sense of things and gives me a bit of peace.
I don't go in for all the kneeling and bowing. I'm not knocking anyone who does that, but if I did that, I'd feel my God would be telling me to get back up.
It would be more accurate to say that other atheists have moderated their approach to the religious, of late. This effort has been assisted by alan29 and his sardonic remarks.
It is apparent that not all religious persons are fundies. It is also apparent that there is more credence given to spiritual disciplines like yoga and Buddhism, and Christianity shares the reflected glow. (Although the Dalai Lama has made it clear that in his view Buddhists do not believe in God, or not in the Judaeo- Christian concept).
In addition quantum physics (okay, that no one really understands) hints that the universe is more complex than we knew, so it is naïve to say reality is just one way and not the other.
Finally, Christians themselves have changed politically and socially over the years, making it harder to stereotype a believer. One could be a liberal gay vegan who practices hot yoga and meditates and whose partner is of a different race.
Back to prayer and worship for those who wish.
I only posted earlier because the threads resurrection was immediately used by one poster; without immediate provocation to make comments about non-believers.
However if the thread is used again to make any kind of negative comments about me by name I think it will be quite reasonable for me to respond on this thread. I hope that does not happen as it will inevitably take the thread OT which would be a shame for those who are interested.
Peace
Edit not referring to treme's comments but the obvious reference to them in a reply.
As I'm one of the named ones I'm just going to pop in and say that my approach has not altered at all over the years.
If you are referring to my post I was not referencing you but those who are fond of denigrating terms like flying spaghetti monster, unicorns and such. That I think we see less of lately.
If people want to say that they themselves only believe what is scientifically proven that is okay with me. Or even if they want to say they do not understand how the religious think as they do. Because I am unable to think like an atheist. My brain does not allow it.
I myself do not think like some other religious people but I accept them.
I've never quite understood the flying spaghetti monster thing. People haven't been reporting mystical and transcendental experiences for centuries that involved that particular entity so why is it even brought up. If the purpose is to say, it's silly to believe in A because I can invent B which is equally unfalsifiable and charicatured sounding whats to stop me from dismissing the multiverse hypothesis using something equally ridiculous sounding.
I think that is the point, to compare religious experience to something a normal person would be embarrassed to be associated with. That is the objective of ridicule. Recall some political ads that can be quite influential, even destroy someone's reputation.
But I digress and some may want to talk about prayer.